U.s. socom

[USSoldier11B 0]

Marine personnel that get to cross train with other branches are extemely rare. You would be hard pressed to get an airborne slot in anything besides force recon. All personnel that have a job that involves high risk of capture are required to attend SEAR (Survival Evasion Resistance Escape) school. Pilots attend category B, while SOCOM operatives attend category C (which includes POW lab.)Army SF cross trains with man foriegn armies. i.e. you can get German jump wings, Thai jump wings, go to Malaysian tracker school. Occasionally SF guys will even get to go through the 22nd SAS course. etc..

[Grey Fox 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IceFire @ April 17 2002,20<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hey GreyFox, you don't have to join the Army to be spec ops.

The Marines have one too called Force Recon.  They are pretty bad ass.<span id='postcolor'>

I would but I want to go help the foreign populations(hopefully in Eucom since Europe is a very nice place) and convine people that the SF is "America's Best"(look at my sig and at AI's stupidest moments post in the general forum). I also have learned to prefer unconventional warfare. I considered marines first but i like the idea of "Free the Opressed" rather than "Semper Fi!" (Don't get me wrong it was my original choice)

[Grey Fox 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USSoldier11B @ April 17 2002,20:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All personnel that have a job that involves high risk of capture are required to attend SEAR (Survival Evasion Resistance Escape) school. Pilots attend category B, while SOCOM operatives attend category C (which includes POW lab.)<span id='postcolor'>

Could you elaborate on S.E.A.R. (aren't the specifics classified?)

[E6Hotel 0]

IceFire:

What would you like to know about life as a grunt in my beloved Corps?  (I should warn you that I can’t make any comparisons to life as a “leg,†as I’ve never been in the Army.)  Just a little background: I’m active duty and went over eight years in February.   Spent my first hitch as an 0311 (Rifleman), and had two other secondary (“B-billetâ€) MOS’s, 8152 (Security Forces) and 8154 (CQB team member).

Force Recon is very similar to the SEALs in training and capabilities.  Candidates must pass an initial screening (very difficult) before entering the training pipeline.  Typical schools include, but are not limited to:

-- Basic Reconnaissance Course -- necessary for 0321 Reconnaissance Man MOS

-- Basic Airborne (HAHO and HALO added later)

-- Combat Diver

-- SERE (Survival, Escape, Resistance, and Evasion)

-- Ranger school (Unlike soldiers, we don’t wear unit patches or tabs on our cammies.  However, Marines who finish Ranger school usually sew their tabs under their breast pocket flaps.)

-- USMC scout/sniper school

-- HRST (Helicopter Rope Suspension Training) – rappelling, fastroping, SPIE

-- In addition, there are specialized courses taught in-house by the SOTG (Special Operations Training Group) such as CQB, Breaching, and Urban Countersniping.  

You won’t see any Marines in BUD/S (unless they’re transferring into the Navy); that’s specifically for the SEALs.

All the services cross-train; we’re not unique in that respect.  What IS strange is that the Corps offers some of these schools (Airborne, SERE, and Mountain Warfare) as re-enlistment incentives.  Airborne I could understand – at least you earn silver wings.  But SERE?  Imagine:  “Okay, I’ll sign up for four more years, but ONLY if you send me out in the woods for a few weeks so that I can learn to survive by eating worms and bugs.† Thanks, but no thanks!

If you've got any other questions, let me know.

Semper Fi

[USSoldier11B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">SPIE

<span id='postcolor'>

Is this like STABO?

[E6Hotel 0]

USSoldier11B:

Same idea. SPIE = Special Patrol Insertion and Extraction. It's when a stick of guys hook up in pairs to a rope dangling below a helo and get dropped off or picked up.

Semper Fi

[USSoldier11B 0]

Oh, ok. STABO = Stablized Airborne Operations.

Same thing, different acronym.

[IceFire 0]

Hey E7Hotel, I am considering joining the Corps and heading down to Parris Island.

What is the infantry training like? I hear the Marines have seperate training for basic and infantry.

What courses are available to regular infantry who want to enhance their skills and develop additional skills?

I am not looking to join some special ops unit. I will be perfectly happy with infantry unless I happen to decide that I want to ever become more specialized.

But I am curious, what is the procedure to get into Recon, or even Force Recon?

What about becoming a sniper? What about becoming an officer?

Is the washout rate for recon/Force recon high?

If I am infantry, can I opt to take an airborne training, or scuba?

And info will be appreciated.

[IceFire 0]

I AM interested in Scuba and I already to know some basic scuba skills as I am developing that as a hobby.

[USSoldier11B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If I am infantry, can I opt to take an airborne training<span id='postcolor'>

Nope.

I won't comment to much, I'll leave that to E6Hotel. Since he is a mean green.

[E6Hotel 0]

IceFire:

Thanks for the promotion, but it’s E6Hotel for now.  Heh.

Here’s a short breakdown of grunt training.  In boot camp all recruits receive two weeks of instruction with the M16A2, along with a VERY brief intro to crew-served weapons and basic infantry skills.  After boot camp, all 03XX’s (infantry) attend SOI (the School of Infantry) in Camp Pendleton, CA (West Coast) or Camp Lejeune, NC (east coast).  Here, you’ll receive your primary MOS:

0311 – Rifleman

0313 – LAR (light armored reconnaissance) crewman

0321 – Recon (see below)

0331 – Machine gunner

0341 – Mortarman

0351 – Anti-armor / Javelin

0352 – Anti-armor / TOW

Obviously, your MOS determines what weapons you train with.  Every 03XX is familiar with MGs, but mortars and tank-busting are usually left to the specialists.  The anti-armor guys also receive additional training in demolitions.  All grunts are extensively trained in land navigation, commo, patrolling, ambushes, assaults, etc.  There will also be a few “humps†with full gear, ranging from 10-26 miles.  SOI lasts about 2 Ë months; afterwards, you’ll report to your grunt unit and begin working up for deployments.  Training never, ever stops.          

   

If you go in under contract as Marine Corps Security Forces, you go to the MCSF school in Chesapeake, VA after SOI.  You train with the M9 Beretta, the service shotgun, and anti-terrorism tactics.  Security Forces provide security for Naval “special weapons†in CONUS, and the two MCSF FAST (Fleet Anti-terrorism Security Team) Companies are deployed when threat conditions are elevated (e.g. the African embassy bombings and the Cole).  I did two years with FAST back when there was only one Company and it’s an interesting gig.  LOTS of shooting, PT, and advanced anti-/counterterrorism tactics.  You might want to check it out.

About Recon:  You can enlist as an 0321, but all that does is provide you the opportunity to take the indoc at SOI.  Marines can also attempt the indoc later on.  The indoc is conducted in one day, and usually consists of the following events:

-- A PFT, with a minimum 285/300 score (that’s 20 dead-hang pull-ups, 100 crunches in 2 minutes, and a 3-mile run in 20:30 or less)

-- 1st class swim qualification (after running a few more miles to the pool, of course, along with “water aerobics†between qualification stages); then a run back to your starting point, and finally,

-- A time-limited, 5-mile “ruck run,†carrying a 50-lb sandbag in your pack.  Not sure about the time, but I think it's around 45 minutes - 1 hour.

You also need to meet GT (intelligence score) requirements, and an interview/evaluation.  And that just gets you in the door.  The actual training is much more difficult.

Scout/snipers: The technical requirements to attend the school don’t sound all that impressive -- adequate vision, minimum PFT score, expert rifleman.  Keep in mind, though, that shooting is the EASY part of the school.  Land navigation and fieldcraft (stalking) are the hard parts.  To be a scout/sniper you’re going to have to prove yourself to be a mature, reliable, squared-away Marine that can operate independently.  Great rifle shots are a dime a dozen in the Corps, but the scout/snipers are a rare breed.

Officers:  If you’re interested, don’t wait until you’ve graduated college.  During your freshman or sophomore year, find your closest OSO (Officer Selection Office) and pay them a visit.  OCS (Officer Candidate’s School) is mentally and physically tougher than boot camp, and much more selective.  If you’re an enlisted Marine, there are several programs that could enable you to receive a commission, and the Corps actually takes pride in having the highest percentage of “Mustangs†(prior enlisted officers) of any of the services.      

Sorry, but I don’t have any info on washouts.  I did know one guy at FAST that made it through the 2nd Force Recon indoc, reported to the combat diver school, and turned out to be color-blind.  The poor guy had to be dropped, and finished up his hitch as a game warden.  He had spent almost a year training for Force, too.

About airborne / scuba (technically it’s combat diver) schools: Like USSoldier11B said, most 03XX’s don’t go to these schools.  They’re expensive, they pull Marines out of other training, and we only have so many allocations.  If we sent regular grunts, we might not be able to get a school seat for a Recon Marine that NEEDS the school.  Occasionally, airborne school seats are given for winning a board, or as a re-enlistment incentive.

One thing I would seriously suggest is that you should think about why you want to be a Marine.  Don’t join for school money or to learn a technical skill.  Now don’t misunderstand me -- we get the G.I. Bill and we have technical MOS’s.  It’s just that you can get that stuff in the other services, usually with less sacrifice.  It might sound strange, but the only reason to enlist in the Marine Corps is to be a Marine.  If you ever wear the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor you’ll understand.

Semper Fi

[USSoldier11B 0]

Army infantry MOS's aren't so specialized. There is no specific MOS for a sniper in the army.

11A: Infantry Officer

11B: Light Infantry (includes rifleman, grenadier, machine gunner, ammo bearer, assistant gunner..etc..)

11C: Indirect fire Infantryman (mortars)

11H: Anti-Armor Infantry (TOW...etc...usually Humvee mounted)

11M: Mechanized Infantry (M2A2 crew)

Infantrymen who go to special skills courses get suffixes on the end of thier MOS's. Suffix numbers will increase with skill level.

i.e.

11B1P: Basic Airborne Infantryman

11B30: Infantry NCO

you would get a different suffix for Javelin, Sniper, Combat Diver training etc....

[E6Hotel 0]

Oh yeah...

8541 -- USMC Scout/Sniper

This is a secondary MOS. For example, a machine gunner serving as a scout/sniper would be an 0331 in an 8541 billet MOS.

Semper Fi

[IceFire 0]

Thanks for the info.

Also, I am 20 now and turn 21 in October. My age wouln't disqualify me from anything should it?

Also I am in college and am not sure if I want to start out as fulltime or reserves.

If I do go reserves I will probably go full time after college or go back in if my time gets up during college. Will the same opportunities still be with me if I am in reserves or should I go full time to get all that training if I wanted?

[USSoldier11B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also, I am 20 now and turn 21 in October. My age wouln't disqualify me from anything should it?

<span id='postcolor'>

Nope.

Not until you get pretty old for most jobs.

I've know dudes who were 40 when they went through SFAS and made it.

There are mostly rank limitations. To go SF you have to be at least:

enlisted: E-4 Specialist, or sometmes E-3 PFC promotable.

officer: O-3 Captain, or 0-2 1st Lieutenant promotable.

No rank restrictions for Rangers.

Age wise this is all I know

You have to be 21 to be an Army Counter-Intel Agent, because you are officially a federal law eforcement agent.

You can be no older than 23 to go to any of the U.S> service academies.

[InRange 0]

Wow, when it comes to the variety and number of jobs in the armed forces the US are probably top of the bill.

[IceFire 0]

Bump.

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USSoldier11B @ April 17 2002,21:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just an FYI,  I passed Airborne School easily and requested Bragg but was sent to the 2ID because of a severe shortage of my MOS there. it sucked   just FYI  <span id='postcolor'>

Bummer, what was your MOS?<span id='postcolor'>

31U communications.

[scout 0]

we dont use numbers, other wise those paper pusher would walk around counting fingers all day!

[E6Hotel 0]

IceFire:

No problem.  As far as your age goes, keep in mind that you need to be less than 30 when you're commissioned.  Shouldn't be a problem for you.  I've got to stress that you need to research your options -- check out www.usmc.mil.  

Reserves:  The training is the same, but you may be limited in the MOS's you can choose, depending on what kind of units you live near.

USSoldier11B:

I noticed your comments about Gunny Hathcock in the "war heroes" thread; needless to say, he is revered in the Corps.  FYI, just wanted to say that all "Ma Deuces" (M2s) can be set for single-shot.  And the VC kid running guns?  The first shot hit the bicycle.  The second didn't.  2,500 yard confirmed kill.

Keep forgetting MOS's!

0302 -- Infantry officer

0306 -- Marine "Gunner" (Permanent appointment to CWO2; Batallion CO's weapons guru)

0369 -- Platoon sergeant (All grunt sergeants become 0369's when they reach Staff Sergeant / E6)

Semper Fi

[IceFire 0]

Well, that pretty much wraps all up.

Thanks E6Hotel!

[USSoldier11B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">0369 -- Platoon sergeant (All grunt sergeants become 0369's when they reach Staff Sergeant / E6)

<span id='postcolor'>

Doesn't it take a really long time to make rank in the Corps?

Army promotes pretty fast up to E-6. Then some NCO's get stuck there for a looong time. About your M-2 comment, I haven't ever got to play with one. We don't have any in my unit. Biggest weapons we have is Mk 19 and 81mm Mortars. Those are just for base defense. Oh yeah, get to go shoot stuff all weekend. Weapons re-qual. See you guys on Monday.

[E6Hotel 0]

USSoldier11B:

The Mk-19, especially when mounted on a humvee, is <<Mr. Burns voice>> "Exxxcellent!"  

"Doesn't it take a really long time to make rank in the Corps?"

Depends on the Marine and the MOS.  Generally, the more skill the MOS requires, the faster it promotes.  In the lower ranks it's also possible to earn meritorious promotions.  You could break down a Marine's career into three phases:  

-- Promotions to PFC and Lance Corporal are automatic, once you meet time-in-service requirements (barring any screw-ups).  A typical Marine takes 2-4 years to make Corporal.  It's also possible to be in a "frozen" MOS that's not promoting.  I've seen Marines leave as terminal Lance Corporals because their MOS wasn't given a "cutting score."  A few years back anti-armor was notorious for not promoting.

-- Becoming an NCO (Corporal and Sergeant) requires meeting a "cutting score" composed of PFT, rifle score, proficiency/conduct marks, self-education, and other factors.  Every MOS has a score (except the "frozen" ones); the intent is to promote the highest-scoring Marines in each MOS while keeping the rank structure proportional.  Expect to wait about 8-10 years to make SSgt.  

-- Once you make Sergeant, you receive fitness reports ("fitreps") from your reviewing officer.  The fitrep rates you in various categories such as technical proficiency, intellect, ability to work under pressure, etc.  All Sergeants and SNCO's eligible for promotion are evaluated by selection boards in HQMC.  Board members review fitreps and service records, then choose the best qualified.  Like the Army, once you hit SNCO promotions can slow down.  There are fewer openings, competition is fierce, and you need years of time-in-grade before you're eligible for pin on a new rocker.

For what it's worth, I picked up Staff Sergeant in 7 years, and might pick up Gunny next year (was out of the promotion eligibility zone by 2 months this year) -- according to my co-workers, I'm being fast-tracked.  It's typical for careerists to retire at 20 as E8's (First Sergeants or Master Sergeants).  If I stay in and don't submit a WO package, I should pick up E9 (Sergeant Major or Master Gunnery Sergeant) in 20.  I'd be going the Master Guns route.  We shall see...    

Semper Fi

[IceFire 0]

Now I'm curious, in the Marines, how do the ranks go?

I don't really know. Or should I just wait til I join up to learn all that stuff?

[Tydium 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Now I'm curious, in the Marines, how do the ranks go?

I don't really know.  Or should I just wait til I join up to learn all that stuff?

<span id='postcolor'>

Here is a good page of US military ranks:

U.S. Military ranks