Taliban failing to detonate mine

[nomdeplume 0]

No, but they are fighting for something. We may see it as a misguided something, bordering on insanity, but it is what they believe in; and they equally see our beliefs as something not worth fighting for.

It is also interesting how they can commit atrocities with pride - as if they are merely implementing their laws (which they are). When the "isolated incidents" occur on our side, the people involved cover it up. The commanders cover it up. Everyone knows it's wrong and shameful - and yet it happened anyway.

I'm not sure which is better. Those doing things because they believe it to be the right thing to do can, at least in theory, be reasoned with and have their minds changed. Those who know what they're doing is shameful and wrong/illegal and do it anyway..?

It truly is a terrible situation. We arguably have a moral duty to those who are being subjected to "laws" and punishments we see as unjust; yet, any attempt to impose our own beliefs on a radically different culture seem completely doomed to failure, and arguably in a way that is much worse than the injustices that would occur if we left well enough alone.

But then, sitting back and letting bad things happening without intervening seems somehow worse than trying to help and messing things up even more.

Finally, let's not forget that history is told by the winner. It seems clear that the extremists cannot win, yet they fight anyway. Imagine if they did win: what an amazing tale of valor and bravery it would become, AK-47s, RPGs and IEDs defeating the might of the Western armies.

Australia holds the debacle at Gallipoli as an event of national pride; had the war gone the other way, I'm sure the Turkish would look back and laugh at the bumbling and inept attempt by the Allies to best their mighty defences. Just as we laugh at the Taliban's efforts today.

[smeg head 10]

They dehumanize themselves pretty well. Shall I post the vid I have of them shooting a tied up 12 yr old boy in the head?

I'm not saying they're more evil or less evil, or America isn't justified or whatever... Making such an argument would go nowhere, because as both the USA and taliban have demonstrated, "justification" is a subjective thing

I'm just saying that if you treat people a certain way, they'll react a certain way. You see how that works?

You treat people like animals and they act like animals

[-Total- 0]

People will act how they believe they are wanting to act.

Whether it be religion, politics, ethnic, or a combination of those, a belief is formed. That belief will reflect how people act - not how you treat them. Especially not in a time of war.

Gaining their trust is paramount to coalition forces. Of course, gaining trust from our troops is their's. Trust can be a strength, but it can also be a weakness. When you trust somone, you are less apt to think they are about to intentionally play a part in your death. Villagers who are really part of the enemy gaining trust is a tactic that is used quite frequently.

The Islamic fighters, in the end, are not afraid to die. That makes for a very dangerous enemy. Add in the difficulty of the enviroment, and you have a difficult war indeed. This is not the first time those countries have been invaded and occupied. I doubt it will be the last either.

[HyperU2 11]

I'm not saying they're more evil or less evil, or America isn't justified or whatever... Making such an argument would go nowhere, because as both the USA and taliban have demonstrated, "justification" is a subjective thing

I'm just saying that if you treat people a certain way, they'll react a certain way. You see how that works?

You treat people like animals and they act like animals

Yeah, like Darfur et al. Of course they're acting like animals after the US invasion. I'd be interested to know how we're dehumanizing our Iraqi and Afghan allies though.

[smeg head 10]

Yeah, like Darfur et al. Of course they're acting like animals after the US invasion.

What does Darfur have to do with anything? I just said that part of the reason why the taliban continue to resist is because you leave them no other option - "we don't negotiate with terrorists!" and all that...

Well that's all well and good, but if you don't want to talk, then the only way for them to feel respected is to fight.

I'd be interested to know how we're dehumanizing our Iraqi and Afghan allies though.

Uhh, you're not... You're co-operating with them, and as a result your allies aren't trying to kill you, they're working with you... See how mutual respect gets results? :bounce3:

Now try doing that with the taliban.

Oh wait I forgot, we can't because they're all "animals"

I guess we better keep fighting them until there's an end in sight

[gulag 10]

I think there is nothing political or social reasons for their actions, to be honest, taliban in Afghanistan or insurgents in Iraq they are of several nationalities, they think this way: Christians invaded us, their actions are motivated by their belief, prisoners of war in Chechnya and Afganistan were forced to deny their faith (if they were Christians) if they refused then they were beheaded or crucified, this is jihad, simple.

[HyperU2 11]

What does Darfur have to do with anything? I just said that part of the reason why the taliban continue to resist is because you leave them no other option - "we don't negotiate with terrorists!" and all that...

Well that's all well and good, but if you don't want to talk, then the only way for them to feel respected is to fight.

Uhh, you're not... You're co-operating with them, and as a result your allies aren't trying to kill you, they're working with you... See how mutual respect gets results? :bounce3:

Now try doing that with the taliban.

Oh wait I forgot, we can't because they're all "animals"

I guess we better keep fighting them until there's an end in sight

I think we were letting them mind their own business quite well on 9/10. They've been attacking us for longer than we've been regarding them as animals, sometimes civility fails. You wanna have a cuddle fest with them I suggest a thick collar. You seem to think we want to eradicate them all though, if that were the case we'd already be done.

With Darfur I just meant some people are animals without foreign influence.

Edited March 14, 2010 by HyperU2

[Archamedes 10]

Hiroshima was a great example of winning or ending a war, how ironic would it be that a bomb ends it for them too. Live by the bomb, die by it too. (and yes i know many innocent people will die, but it was no different for hiroshima, and the pilot who dropped it was regarded a hero not to mention the only living soul with the most amount of military kills under his belt.)

Edited March 14, 2010 by Archamedes

[nomdeplume 0]

That was a pretty different situation though. The massive amount of civilian casualties caused by the nuclear bombs could be justified after the millions of people that had already died in the war - and the many people that would die in an invasion of the Japanese mainland, which was the alternative.

Plus, where would you actually drop a nuke (or perform an intensive conventional bombing campaign) to defeat the Taliban and other extremists? It worked on Japan because even they couldn't tolerate the massive loss of lives and suffering; but I doubt it's going to deter many extremists. More likely to create them.

[sic-disaster 311]

Still, it has to be seen how much of what the Taliban does really has anything to do with the real Islamic faith.

I've known an extremely faithful Islamic person in army training, and by far he was the best friend you could have because he was willing to sacrifice himself for his team.

If you had to get something done on time and both of you weren't ready, he wouldnt hesitate to drop his own needs and help you out so YOU could be on time, drawing negative attention to himself in doing so.

If while running you couldnt keep up, he would be the first to drag you along, decreasing his own performance.

And even further, if you were with twelve people and he had the only Mars bar, he would divide that Mars bar in twelve so everybody could have some.

He is one of the finest human beings i have had the pleasure of meeting and calling a friend.

Now the reason he did all this was because he lived by the Islam and the Quran. He would pray to Allah every chance he'd get.

But he can't possibly identify himself with what the Taliban or Al Quaida are doing in name of the same faith, and it is this way with many Islamic people.

Taliban and Al Quaida are self-rightous bastards abusing the Islamic faith as an excuse to dominate and deprive the citizens of Afghanistan for their own needs, and has little to do with the actual faith.

If anything, they are clinging to a medieval faith, made for different times, unwilling to change or adapt.

Their treatment of women forcing them to wear full robes covering all but the eyes and such just to 'make sure they dont force men to rape them' is just plain stupid, and if anything says more about their ability to control themselves rather than the woman being an evil provocateur.

Note though that this dresscode (though not this bad) was common in Western countries too, and women showing too much skin were being looked down upon and demonized, while it is commonly accepted now.

Anyways, long story short:

I dont believe the Taliban are doing this for the Islamic faith. They do it for a faith that suits them and noone else.

[Placebo 29]

I think this is done now.