ACOGS and HOLO's - WTF!

[Chumba 10]

The game screen when "Optics" is selected for ACOG or HOLOsight should have the body of the device a blurred and fairly transparent presence - NOT crisp and sharp and in the ^%$#ing way!

IRL altho you CAN peer thru / into it, the idea is to be scanning your field with both eyes open and the weapon / sight positioned such that the dot superimposes to represent your aimpoint. The device IS in your FOV but it's not what you're focussing on and essentially doesn't obstruct a heck of a lot.

In the game, ironsights constrict FOV less than the acogs and holos and that's just not right.

[galzohar 31]

Been said many times, but no game has got it done right today with 3d weapons and for good reasons (performance and stuff). Just search for it or something... What you're asking for is easy to do in games where the sights are 2d (such as America's Army 2 and Insurgency) but having 2d sights looks even less real.

I'm sure if it could be done without totally killing your GFX card then it would've been done, if not in Arma 2 then in some other game. But the fact is nobody did that and there are many explanations you can look for that will tell you why.

[dmarkwick 261]

Agree with Galzohar. If you have your post-process effects turned down how can you get focus effects? The only way would be to use a 2D image replacement system, replacing the 3D weapon with a 2D fuzzy image of the weapon.

Can't say it bothers me too much. Not like I go WTF or anything.

Edited February 20, 2010 by DMarkwick

[Chumba 10]

Yeah, I maybe got a bit carried away - but it does annoy me to the WTF point that acogs and halo are basically useless for CQB ingame.

What I'm talking about is indeed some 2D textures - in this particular aspect of the game I'm afraid that having lovely toss-worthy 3D models is pointless when the device is NOT what you're trying to look AT in action - you're looking THRU and PAST/BEYOND it, not AT it. I'd actually prefer the weapon to go invisible altogether when you press "optics" and just have a red dot in centre screen - the compensation for being in that view mode being restricted movement (which is already in operation) - but realistic effect of a blurred / partially transparent weapon and device would be ideal.

[dmarkwick 261]

Have you tried it on full post-process effects? I always have them turned off so I don't know, but maybe it IS like this ingame.

If not, I don't know how you would mod it. The weapon is the weapon your ingame character is holding, it's not a compositing trick as used by other games. However as sniper rifles et al DO use some method of 2D image overlay, maybe there is a possibility.

[Chumba 10]

K - unpacking the weapon.pbo reveals the named .p3d files for acogs etc. are actually called "2D" - ie. "2Dscope_Acog_4x32.p3d" etc.

Problem is that these .p3d's are binarised so I can't open them in o2 etc.

Other solution I'm going to look into is to use config.bin settings to expand the fov (pretty much zoom) so that the optic fills much more of the screen. Not entirely satisfactory but at least it'll be usable - already have to use it more or less like a scope (except no zoom) so might as well have it actually be a $#$@%^ scope....

[galzohar 31]

IRL you would shoot with both eyes open which means you see both the sight and "through" the sight as the sight does not block the view of your other eye. To simulate this in the game you would pretty much have to render each frame twice which means the game requires twice as powerful machines just to simulate this important (but not important enough for cutting framerate in 1/2) effect.

As for the 2d, are you sure it's not just the crosshair of the acog that is 2d?

[PuFu 4600]

acog scopes are 2d planes that have a texture assigned to them

the scopes such as aimpoint are in the weapon's using it .p3d

There was a thread about it, use search function. What is possible with the current engine (and new models of the weapons with an ACOG scope), is to push the zoom to 4x, but that would actually zoom the whole screen, not only the scope. Has been tried before, the results were unsatisfactory

[Chumba 10]

acog scopes are 2d planes that have a texture assigned to them

the scopes such as aimpoint are in the weapon's using it .p3d

There was a thread about it, use search function. What is possible with the current engine (and new models of the weapons with an ACOG scope), is to push the zoom to 4x, but that would actually zoom the whole screen, not only the scope. Has been tried before, the results were unsatisfactory

:-( Thanks for that info tho - much appreciated.

Galzohar: I don't think anything fancy like that would be required - all we need is for the current body of the acog or holo to be made less intrusive by being blurred out and made partially transparent. If I can manage to unbinarise the .p3d's or get hold of accessible .p3d's I'd have a go at doing that in O2

[PuFu 4600]

:-( Thanks for that info tho - much appreciated.

Galzohar: I don't think anything fancy like that would be required - all we need is for the current body of the acog or holo to be made less intrusive by being blurred out and made partially transparent. If I can manage to unbinarise the .p3d's or get hold of accessible .p3d's I'd have a go at doing that in O2

You won't be able to unbinarize the p3ds.

But you could look over the MLODs released with A1, the acogs and aims are the same.

[Chumba 10]

You won't be able to unbinarize the p3ds.

But you could look over the MLODs released with A1, the acogs and aims are the same.

SWEET!! - I'll do that. BTW I've stuffed up badly in my posts - I've been meaning AIMPOINT sights - not ACOGS - du-OH!! (headsmack).

[Lal 10]

What annoys me the most on the topic is the fact that as OP said, the huge blocky ACOG/HOLO sights block so much of your field of view when you aim with it, both the intensely red dot itself and the frame of the sight. I'd like to start using the weapons sights rather than the crosshairs after a while, but atm it is just such a major drawback on HOLO sight weapons that I won't bother to.

[Honeycutt 10]

Personally I hate using the holographic and red-sights full stop 3D or 2D. ACOG scopes ok if your using a long range weapon and I'll even accept red-dot in conjuction with night vison (unless your equipped with IR designator). These scopes promote tunnel vision and don't take into account recoil. Somebody want to confirm rightly or wrongly that red-dot and hologram scopes are aimed for CQB?

Even in COD4 MP I prefer ironsights so I have a wide field of vision and can at range fire a burst even single shot into the general direction of the target. Also good for RIF tactic.

I agree essentially when you look down the scope you should not see so much of the outside of the device

[Takko 10]

In the game, ironsights constrict FOV less than the acogs and holos and that's just not right.

You aim with both eyes open on a ironsight as well.

[galzohar 31]

It had been discussed already, and making semi-transparent 3d-sights is just not feasible.

Rendering a 3d optic 2x and then blurring them together is a performance hog. So..... I'm not sure it's even possible to simulate these things in a realistic way with realistic 1P views.

http://www.blackfootstudios.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3879&st=0&p=67128entry67128

And that's from an actual game developer...

[kklownboy 43]

What annoys me the most on the topic is the fact that as OP said, the huge blocky ACOG/HOLO sights block so much of your field of view when you aim with it, both the intensely red dot itself and the frame of the sight. I'd like to start using the weapons sights rather than the crosshairs after a while, but atm it is just such a major drawback on HOLO sight weapons that I won't bother to.

Yes the default AIMPOINT in ACEX is the worst ever first person view model. Absolutely ugly, and a embarrassment to the mod...The vanilla is ok relative to the abomination that is in ACEX, but the MicoCCOs are very good.

In A1 there were some really bad Holos too maybe from the same modder? But yeah seems the Holos are a tad large for the game play ect.

[galzohar 31]

It's not that the sight is big, it's that your FOV is small. But yeah the ACEX aimpoint is horrible and I really don't understand why they replaced the original aimpoint with an inferior one. At least the ACEX EOTECH looks a bit better than the vanilla EOTECH.

[Chumba 10]

I have NO idea how editing works with these things - ie. I assume p3d will be edited with o2? - but surely it's just a matter of specifying the "colour" of the device to be "transparency" or a "glass" type of thing?

Yes, in real life you can shift focus back from the far field to examine the device itself and admire it and stroke it and..... well, like the man says "you can get TOO familiar with veg-etables you know!" - but in the GAME I for one could live with the device being transparent all the time when optics are selected - ie. as tho one's focus was on the far field all the time.

Edited February 24, 2010 by Chumba

[sickboy 13]

If you have comments on ACE, maybe you should let us know at the bug tracker too?

http://dev-heaven.net/projects/ace-mod2/wiki/Bugz

Re sights, scopes and CQB:

- You can double tap numpad minus to zoom out, or use right mouse or numpad plus to zoom in.

- ACE has CQB sights so you can look over your ACOG scope for instance, if you're interested and dont want the rest of the mod, take a look how its done, it should be easy portable.

IMO these are certainly not replacements for realworld stuff, but it's at least something ? :)

[Lal 10]

Yes the default AIMPOINT in ACEX is the worst ever first person view model. Absolutely ugly, and a embarrassment to the mod...The vanilla is ok relative to the abomination that is in ACEX, but the MicoCCOs are very good.

In A1 there were some really bad Holos too maybe from the same modder? But yeah seems the Holos are a tad large for the game play ect.

I was actually talking about vanilla Arma. I haven't downloaded Ace yet(for reasons like the one you stated)