Very Unprofessional Assassins

[-=[BorZ]=- 17]

HI Walker,

it´s interesting what you mention, although i think it´s unlikely. We do not need to go so far away to search. Israel has no intention at all to cover the actions of their agents or their army. THey do everything in a very arrogant way, without caring at all about their image (which is worsat and worst every day all over the world) they do not mind if they are discovered, conversely, it seems their strategy is showing they can reach you wherever and whenever they want . They know the UN (US) is going to cover their crimes and they ar egoing to ignore any sanctions from the UN, as they have always done. They think they have the divine right to these lands, and do not care the consecuences of their actions, even if they have to comitte genocide in front of the eyes of the international community.

Mad politics, they lonelier and lonelier every time they kill civilians and this will mean the end of their enterprise.

KInd regards

JArbibullah ;)

[Mike84 1]

You 2 should get married :p

btw, what genocide?

[Dwarden 1125]

and perhaps it wasn't Mosad ...

remember in spy game world ... who looks like author ... often isn't author

imho the operation was too public and too easily leading to Mosad ...

or Mosad quality went downhill ...

[walker 0]

and perhaps it wasn't Mosad ...

remember in spy game world ... who looks like author ... often isn't author

imho the operation was too public and too easily leading to Mosad ...

or Mosad quality went downhill ...

Hi Dwarden

Get real.

The Irish, Australian and UK governments had their respective security services investigate the operation. In each of the cases they were convinced enough of who ran the operation to castigate the Israeli Ambasador and throw the head of station for the Mossad out of the country.

Further your idea that it was a foe of Israel putting fake agents into kill one of their own requires us to believe that this suposed foe of Israel is so powerful that it can run an operation in Israel where they secretly go into the houses of 30 plus Israeli's steal their passsports then clone them, then have the Isralei company Payoneer pay for the whole operation then fool the whole world into believing it was Israel.

Pull the other one Dwarden its got bells on it.

Your last point is one of the cases I stated as being possible explanation for the amateurishness of the operation, perhaps the corrosive effect of a too extreme government causing over confidense.

How ever as I stated I think the Mossad was lead along the Garden path to show its knickers by a far more experienced and inteligent foe.

Allow me to reiterate:

It amazes me that people paint this as a Mossad success. When all the evidence and results are that it was a massive Mossad failure.

Mahmoud al-Mabhouh Was a worm on a hook

A man dying of cancer looking for one last hurrah against his sworn enemy. The bait in a well thought out plan to gather intelligence and spring a strategic level trap on the Mossad.

Mossad was tricked into killing Mahmoud al-Mabhouh

Here is the evidence

1) The Target was Dying of Cancer, we get this from the Pre Written Original Obituary report from his former organisation (not the organisation that was current at the time of his death and who he supposedly went to Dubai for) and that they past on that information within 24 hours of the report of his death and before his new organisation could counter it and prevent the fact of his long term illness leaking into the news:

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=255640

2) I also point out he booked his ticket over the Internet in his own name knowing it would show up on Mossad’s surveillance and also as was reported by the Dubai Police that he travelled on his own passport:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,587044,00.html?test=latestnews

Also reported in the Jerusalem Post and various other Israeli News papers, as well as the Western media and Gulf news papers:

3) Most of those same articles also point out: he talked to his family in Gaza about the trip over the phone knowing their phone lines were tapped by the Mossad as does this one from the UAE.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100131/FOREIGN/701309828/1002

5) That he had arranged for his wife to phone him at that hotel at a specific time as was reported by the Dubai Police as being the trigger for the hotel staff to break in to his hotel. Thus specified a time line when Mossad could kill him.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1146911.html

6) In all the videos, this experienced agent of Hamas with three previous attempts on his life by Israel successfully beaten and supposedly training in counter surveillance from nation states; he the target employed no counter surveillance what so ever:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=dubaisesslon&annotation_id=annotation_425824

7) The target also traveled without his usual bodyguards, despite at least three previous attempts to assassinate him by Israel:

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100131/FOREIGN/701309828/1002

8 ) The discovery that the two Palestinian Mossad assets, turn out to be, a former Gaza FATA PA Policeman who’s family is still in Gaza and had been living in exile in Dubai after being accused of being a Mossad spy. And then his Brother who has been living in Gaza until recently, suddenly turns up and joins him to suddenly also become a Mossad asset, all a short while before the Target conveniently presents himself.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7034183.ece

9) Then after the event the Two Palestinian assets are the only ones captured within 24 hours mind you, there is no film of them and they are scooted away to the UAE. There is much confusion about this where both FATA and Hamas say they are members of the opposite group.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7034183.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2

And then the evidence was gathered and released in a controlled fashion by an impeccable witness. Using Dubai to conduct, what IMHO was a counter Mossad operation; was a master stroke. Most of the leg work could be done by electronic means and by a western trained police force.

The indisputable fact that Dubai police in the speed it reacted to a single assassination; beat both the US FBI, CIA, NSA and police in the speed it got information on the 9/11 suspects; and MI5 and Scotland Yard on the London 7/7 bombing suspects; yet this remarkable feat has never been remarked on by anyone.

I give no evidence for this last point but ask for you to examine your own credulity on the matter.

IMHO the Dubai Police have been fed the evidence to suit another parties needs.

Like I said IMHO Mahmoud al-Mabhouh Was a worm on a hook

A man dying of cancer looking for one last hurrah against his sworn enemy. The bait in a well thought out plan to gather intelligence and spring a strategic level trap on The Mossad.

Now let us look at the results:

Tactical moves by the Mossad that I think were made with clear goals in mind were:

1) Kill the Target [√]

2) Escape the Country [√]

Strategic moves by the Mossad that I think were made with clear goals in mind were:

1) Maintain Mossad’s targeted killings strategy. [√]

2) Maintain political deniability [X]

3) Use the “policy of ambiguity†to supplement political deniability while hinting at implacable state retribution [X]

Tactical moves by the force Inimical to Israel that I think were made with clear goals in mind were:

1) Choose the time and location on which the operation will take place. [√]

2) Control and pollute the Mossad intelligence stream. [√]

3) Gather detailed intelligence and records of Mossad’s methods, Tradecraft and cover companies like Payoneer. [√]

4) Negate all the agents involved, including those at the cover companies now named in the US, Germany, Austria and Switzerland, as well as busting those cover companies, even the agents and assets not identified by Dubai police are now useless, you cannot be sure the other side has not got the identities of those that are not named. [√]

5) Conduct a successful counter operation to a Mossad targeted killing operation. [√]

6) Create a Hamas martyr from a man who was dying anyway [√]

7) Control the release of information for maximum effect [√]

Strategic moves by the force Inimical to Israel that I think were made with clear goals in mind were:

1) Isolate Israel from Dubai by luring Mossad into action on Dubai’s Soil. [√]

2) Isolate Israel from Allies by filming the whole event and capturing Israel’s use of Allies Passports.[√]

Mossad’s habit of cloning passports from not unfriendly nations has a long history and was a predictable aspect. 25 year ago it caused a big problem when UK passports were used and Israel was forced to promise not to do it any more. Ditto the poison in the ear the use of Canadian passports, and the more recent New Zealand passports case where New Zealand withdrew all senior diplomatic relations. Israeli Governments have fallen in the past as a result of less than this. IMHO this time it is worse as several nations are affected at the same time.

3) Get Mossad and Israel castigated by the whole world, such that Ambassadors get quizzed and carpeted. [√]

4) Tarnish the reputation of Mossad by making them appear Amateurish [√]

5) Reduce public Trust of Mossad within Israel. [√]

6) Cause Mossad’s trust of its assets to be knocked and questioned within Mossad. [√]

7) Mossad’s targeted killings operation gets called into question and possibly put on hold. [√]

8 ) Cause Israel to suffer sanctions and costs at the hands of formerly friendly nations.[?]

9) Reduce Israel’s international political capital at a strategic moment in time. [√]

You could argue that a portion or indeed all of these strategic and tactical elements were accidental and not intended but their effect remains the same Mossad the supposed ultra spies have been beaten and suffered catastrophic damage of the type we see today.

Kind Regards walker

Edited June 12, 2010 by walker

[Big Mac 19]

This is just a bit OT, but I have to ask since this isn't the first thread I've seen this kind of behavior on. What has walker done to warrant the treatment he's gotten from Pathy?

[walker 0]

Hi all

I am Guessing the agent they caught is either the one who went under the alias of Michael Bodenheimer.

http://www.interpol.int/public/Data/Wanted/Notices/Data/2010/64/2010_7064.asp

Or yet another example of the agent and asset infection a cover blown operation can exhibit. I said early on I thought the affects could reach into the 100s of operatives. Dubai have already named 30 plus to Interpol and the media, all those at Payoneer also had their cover blown.

I am guessing any foe of Israel that ran this trap on the Mossad has far more of Israel's agents identified as a result of it and will be turning them, killing them, capturing them and embarrassing Israel with them for years.

Since Dubai have his retinal scans and many passport control points log retinal scans now why one of the agents was out of Israel is beyond me to fathom. We already know that one of the agents the Mossad was using to spy on the UK is being hunted I wonder how many more are out in the cold?

The fact that the Israeli government is pleading with the Polish government not extradite him to Germany is the last nail in the coffin of Israel's deniability in this case. In all honesty it should just fess up and take its punishment like a man; then it can begin mending fences.

Kind Regards walker

Edited June 12, 2010 by walker

[mattxr 9]

If you see this man report him to the police:

Disturbed Walker

Hey thats my dad!! :@

[Mike84 1]

The fact that the Israeli government is pleading with the Polish government not extradite him to Germany is the last nail in the coffin of Israel's deniability in this case. It all honesty it should just fess up and take its punishment like a man; then it can begin mending fences.

Kind Regards walker

Doesn't every country plead not to extradite one of their citizens to a different country?

[walker 0]

Doesn't every country plead not to extradite one of their citizens to a different country?

Hi Mike84

So like the Israeli Ambassador you admit he is Israeli.

Kind Regards walker

Edited June 12, 2010 by walker

[Mike84 1]

The media says it's an Israeli national. Stay up-to-date walker!

[walker 0]

Doesn't every country plead not to extradite one of their citizens to a different country?

Hi Mike84

With the UAE Government now requesting the suspect be extradited to the Gulf it appears Israel will be forced to allow the German extradition to go ahead, as the better of two unpalitable options.

UAE authorities to request extradition of suspect in Al Mabhouh murder

Authorities to request for extradition of latest arrested suspect in Hamas man's murder in Dubai

By Siham Al Najami, Staff Reporter

Published: 10:00 June 13, 2010

Dubai: Authorities in the country are cooperating with Polish and German authorities to obtain more information about an alleged Israeli suspect arrested in connection with the assassination of Hamas commander Mahmoud Al Mabhouh in Dubai before requesting for his extradition.

A security source told Gulf News that they are currently verifying whether the arrested Mossad agent suspect in Poland under Germany's request is one of the already listed suspects on the arrest warrant by Interpol. The source said that they will request for his extradition soon...

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/crime/uae-authorities-to-request-extradition-of-suspect-in-al-mabhouh-murder-1.640431

As allways follow the link for the full story and original text

Kind Regards walker

[Dwarden 1125]

walker you missed that my previous statement ended with

if this action was in any form or whole ran by Mosad then quality of Mosad went downhill (the risk of tens agents being lifetime recognized with risk to reveal 10s others is beyond my logic to happen) ...

it would be safer and cheaper to hire external assasins then ...

yet i would laugh my ass out when no assasination happened (or happened by someone completely different than official sources claims)

and this all was perfectly executed plan of Dubai and other middle east secret agencies how get rid of suspected / known Mosad agents by help of 'shocked west' :)

so i stay with my previous statement that most of people discussing this got zero idea on what's really going on ...

(ask yourself these questions before You try continue this discussion)

- did i seen the body?

- did i seen the killers killing the victim this body belongs to?

- was the body and killers identities really equal to claimed to be in the recent events?

- did i obtained access to untampered proofs linking to three previous lines?

Edited June 13, 2010 by Dwarden

[Mike84 1]

Hi Mike84

With the UAE Government now requesting the suspect be extradited to the Gulf it appears Israel will be forced to allow the German extradition to go ahead, as the better of two unpalitable options.

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/crime/uae-authorities-to-request-extradition-of-suspect-in-al-mabhouh-murder-1.640431

As allways follow the link for the full story and original text

Kind Regards walker

Do Germany-Poland-UAE have extradition treaties with eachother?

[raedor 8]

- did i obtained access to untampered proofs linking to three previous lines?

Do you have any proofs like that for anything you heard/read in the media the last three years?

[guziczek101 11]

Has anyone seen my dad?

Please help me to find him

[walker 0]

Hi all

Published 00:52 15.06.10 : Latest update 00:52 15.06.10

Poland to extradite alleged Mossad agent to Germany

Suspect will likely face charges of espionage and forgery, but not for links to Dubai assassination.

By Ofer Aderet

BERLIN - Poland intends to extradite to Germany alleged Mossad agent Uri Brodsky, an Israeli suspected of involvement in the assassination of senior Hamas figure Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in Dubai in January...

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/poland-to-extradite-alleged-mossad-agent-to-germany-1.296186

As always follow link for the original text and full story

I wonder how many of the other agents involved will suffer a similar or worse consequences of this very badly run operation?

It is noticeable that Israel's political capital has been severely eroded in recent times.

The question is:

What is the cause? Or is it a combination of causes?

A failure of Government in Israel?

Or a more effective foe, capable of manipulating the Israeli security services and government?

If the latter, who is that foe?

And what other manipulations of Israel have they got planned?

Kind regards walker

Edited June 15, 2010 by walker

[maturin 12]

Assassinations are old hat. Israel has muscled in on the piracy game instead.

[HyperU2 11]

As long as they keep pissing off the people I don't care for Israel can do whatever they please.

[maturin 12]

As long as they keep pissing off the people I don't care for Israel can do whatever they please.

What's wrong with the Brits? Or phone numbers not starting with the digit 1, for that matter.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Israel's repercussions from this badly run operation continue with another station chief of the Mossad in Ireland being expelled.

Israeli diplomat expelled from Ireland over Dubai assassination plot

Ireland now joins Britain and Australia in expelling Israeli diplomats over their government's connections to the Dubai assassination plot that killed a Hamas leader in January.

By David Montero, Correspondent / June 16, 2010

Calling it a “protest action,†Ireland on Tuesday ordered the expulsion of an Israeli diplomat after concluding that Israel's intelligence service had used Irish passports as part of the Dubai assassination plot against Hamas leader Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in January.

“The Irish government does not believe that states should fight terror with terror," the Irish foreign minister said Tuesday, according to the Jerusalem Post...

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terrorism-security/2010/0616/Israeli-diplomat-expelled-from-Ireland-over-Dubai-assassination-plot

As allways follow the link for the full story and original text

This is amid increasing internal pressure on the current Israeli government to resign, a failing relationship with the US Government and a decline in support for the current Israeli government among Jews living the US.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/jun/10/failure-american-jewish-establishment/?pagination=false

It is obvious to anyone that the current mismanagement of Israeli foreign policy has caused Israel's political capital and respect since this operation to decline considerably.

Kind Regards walker

Edited June 16, 2010 by walker
Spelling

[walker 0]

Hi all

The consequences of the lack of professionalism in this operation continue to mount for Israel with a squad of Dubai Police set aside to to track down and capture the Dubai Assassins.

Dubai police have special squad to track Israeli agents

Last Updated: June 18. 2010 11:18PM UAE / June 18. 2010 7:18PM GMT

DUBAI // Dubai Police are deploying a team of specialists whose sole purpose is to detect and track Israeli intelligence agents, a direct response to the assassination of Mahmoud al Mabhouh.

Lt Gen Dahi Khalfan Tamim, the Dubai police chief, said the squad was established “as a consequence of the murder to ensure that its soil will not be used again by the agency to settle its scoresâ€...

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100619/NATIONAL/706189838/1010

As always follow the link for the original article and full text.

In this and several other recent articles there are mentions that Dubai are using the wealth of data they gathered on the Mossad to discover other Mossad operations and agents and to pass the information on to other police and intelligence organisations.

These were, if you look back, just some of the consequences I predicted at the start of this thread.

Kind regards walker

[Mike84 1]

You've predicted so many outcomes for this single incident walker, that you're bound to be right some time, kinda like a broken clock.

Btw, I expected you to report about this, but maybe you're becoming too 'selective' in choosing your stories.

[walker 0]

Hi Mike84

It helps your argument, if you recognise people perusing the post need to know what it is you saying, you can do so if you just quote the head lines and first paragraph or relevant sections to get the gist of what you are saying.

So from your link:

Uri Brodsky to Polish court: I'm the wrong man

As Poland seeks to hand Israeli suspected in Dubai hit over to Germany, man's lawyer insists he is merely businessman with same name as wanted Mossad agent

Ynet Published: 06.17.10, 07:08 / Israel News

The lawyer of Israeli citizen "Uri Brodsky", who has been arrested in Poland for document fraud in connection with the assassination of a Hamas commander in Dubai, has told a local court that his client is not a Mossad agent but a businessman who arrived in Poland for work purposes.

The website of Polish newspaper Gazeta reported Wednesday evening that the attorney had told the court that the incident was an unfortunate case of mistaken identity...

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3906504,00.html

This then lets the debate continue.

As you rightly point out a suspect is innocent until proven guilty and his lawyer has a duty under the law to proclaim his client is innocent, unless instructed otherwise by their client. I would expect nothing less of any lawyer or court, whether it was a mass murderer like Manson or an innocent business man accussed of being a fraudster and spy involved.

However this is not the court.

This is a forum where views and concepts are discussed hopefully civilly without rancor or ad hominem attacks.

I feel I need to make some of my opinions clear:

Am I anti Israeli?

NO

Do I believe Israel should exist as a state?

YES.

Do I believe that Israeli's feel they are under siege?

In the main yes. This is IMHO, because I think a lot of Israeli's think that, and because they did throw lots of Arab/Palestinians off their land and they feel guilty about it but wont admit it.

Do I think that the "West" was complicit in it?

Yes. The "West" felt guilty about the Holocaust and let the Israeli's do it and even gave them a hand. No if buts or maybes they did. I do not think the soviets were that bothered either; they just used the Arabs for the own purposes.

Do I think the Palestinians were hard done by?

YES. Get over it. Israel has nukes and big friends. Palestine has fireworks and AK's. If Israel ever really feels under threat you can say good by to Gaza plus any capitol of any nations attacking Israel so probably every Muslim capitol as well as Mecca Medina and Jerusalem the last as scorched earth.

Why do I think that is what would happen? Well because that is what I would do. Oh and I would make the nukes the dirtiest I could make.

Do I think there should be a two state solution?

NO

I think a three state solution is inevitably what will happen.

I suppose a two state solution will occur for a while but previous split states, such as Gaza and the West Bank would be, have never lasted. Two state Pakistan was the last, it is now Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Gaza as a tax free port paid for and created by money the West, Israel and the oil Trillionaires. The West Bank minus all Israeli settlements, and with all Palestinians from Lebanon and other Arab countries encouraged to return. And a state of Israel along the lines of the 67 borders.

Do I think Jerusalem should be part of Israel?

Yes but I do not think that means Christians and Muslims should be ethnically cleansed from it.

Do I think the Israel is currently an Apartheid state?

Yes and I think it is getting worse.

Do I think where there is conflict, one side killing an-others warriors is wrong?

Nope. That is war. And yes that includes covert activities.

But covert activities are supposed to be that covert. There are reasons for that and I have gone through them in this thread many times.

Do I think Palestininans have a right to fight Israel?

Yep they do.

A war also includes capturing and killing the other sides soldiers as part of resitance against occupation. As to rockets fired against civilians, the country I was born and bred in, carpet bombed Germany. Its a war get over it and quit your whining.

Do I think international opinion should attempt to mitigate and reduce the suffering?

DAMN RIGHT IT SHOULD!

As Israel and the west refuses to recognise either Palestine or a Gazan state or indeed at the moment even the democratically elected government of a nascent Palestinian state, there is no possibility of placing pressure on a Government for either of those, but since Israel has been recognised by the "West" as such pressure can be placed on Israel and IMHO Israel is not getting half the international political kicking it deserves.

Do I think a peacful solution should be found?

Err nah just give Palestine Nukes as well and let the two sides fry each other.

I do not in all honnesty think both sides may be capable of peace unless they kill a couple million each.

But if an Israeli government can sit down with a Gazan/Palestininan one maybe we can avoid that.

Do I think the Mahmoud al-Mabhouh assassination operation was successful?

YES!

For the organisation inimical to Israel and the Mossad that ran it.

I think the Mossad and Israel have been played and I think signs are that they continue to be so. This is because the current Israeli government are a bunch of racist numpties and their stupidity is infecting the Israeli psyche but it has democratic elections just like the Palestinians do so hopefully different ideas may prevail.

Any way back to the thread.

On the consequences of this failed for Israel, and successful for the Mossad's foes, operation.

Poland Turns Down Israel, to Extradite ‘Mossad Agent’ to Germany

by Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu

Poland, a long-time friend of Israel, has turned down a request to allow alleged Mossad agent Uri Brodsky to return to Israel and instead will hand him over to German authorities. Brodsky has been accused of being linked to the elimination of Hamas co-founder Mahmoud Mabhouh (pictured above) in Dubai last in January...

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/138061

As always follow the link for the original text and the full story

Additionally Germany has released some other identities that the agent Uri Brodsky used.

Kind Regards walker

Edited June 21, 2010 by walker

[johncage 30]

so it would be different if they weren't caught on tape? let me remind you, that these people hunted down and killed someone in cold blood. what you're worried about is bad exposure for mossad? leverage for their enemies? this is silly.

as far as i'm concerned, they were as professional as any assassin. it's part of the trade. and it's common knowledge that mossad actively hunts down and kills people.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Latest reports seem to indicate that the consequences of this unprofessional operation continue to play out as I predicted early on in this thread.

Israel spy chief gets boot for bungled hit

Published: June 29, 2010 at 1:33 PM

TEL AVIV, Israel, June 29 (UPI) --

In the fallout from the bungled assassination of a Hamas gunrunner in Dubai in January, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu is reported to have refused a request by Meir Dagan, hard-charging director of Israel's Mossad intelligence service, to extend his 8-year tenure.

Two years ago, the Russian-born Dagan, was a national hero for his successes against Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria and Iran, including several assassinations attributed to the Mossad.

Now he's being booted out, a victim of the Middle East's war of the shadows he has waged for so long...

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Special/2010/06/29/Israel-spy-chief-gets-boot-for-bungled-hit/UPI-15541277832788/

As always follow the link for the original text and the full story

I still continue to be of the opinion that the Mossad was lured into this missguided operation by a foreign security service or other very competant player.

I think this operation will go down in intelligence circles as the most successful counter intelligence operation ever.

Some questions still remain though:

Will the Government of Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu be able to survive after throwing their Intelligence Chief to the wolves, will that one scape goat be enough to let Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu escape the same fate?

What are the full repercussions for the Mossad?

How far does the cross contamination of other assets and agents of the Mossad go?

Most important of all who is the other masterful player of the Intelligence game who so out foxed the Mossad?

Kind Regards walker