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walker

Very Unprofessional Assassins

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So maybe the assassins weren't so stupid, after all, Walker.

I mean, I can hardly think of any better place to kill your target than when he's unprotected...

(I still maintain they should have killed him in the elevator though...)

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I personally think they hit the wrong target, they clearly mistook him for Walker. Bloody stupid amateurs.

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Walker you have repeated yourself in almost every post you have made. Lets face it your talking like your a master of espionage and actually don't know anything.

You continue to call them amateur yet they completed the task they had.

You think they are amateur as they failed to consider the repercussions of their actions, but how do you know what they failed to think about and/or have planned for the future.

Unless you were there at the time you can't really comment on the professionalism of the hit team.

The target entered Dubai on a false passport too i believe so he could have talks about supply of arms to Hamas, maybe thats a hint why he didn't have close protection, he wasn't actually there.

Anyway i'm sure you'll make another bullet pointed post of nonsense. It's like banging my head against a brick wall trying to tell you you actually know nothing.

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I'm with the VCB lads on this. Apart from this being the funniest thread I've seen in ages, nothing I've read here can be considered as more than childish playground speculation. All i can see is that the "facts" as presented by Walker come from various unconfirmed sources and even the BBC, Sky and CNN keep repeating "apparently", "allegedly", "we are told". Yet on here Walker repeats every new speculation as total fact.

Considering that Dubai is in the top 10 cities of the world with the most privately owned security cameras it was inevitable they would be caught on camera. C'mon you can't walk through a shopping mall these days without being caught on at least 10 cameras. Now try that in one of the richest capitals in the middle east? What do you think will happen?

@Walker - I really wish you would stop posting as though you are an expert on every topic you are as bad as plaintiff now. Once is funny and excusable but it happens so often now its not even worth making the "Walter Mitty" jokes anymore.

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Hi Scotty Boy

I copy and paste because people keep making the same unsupported statements that do not jell with facts.

For instance in your most recent post:

1)

Walker you have repeated yourself in almost every post you have made. Lets face it your talking like your a master of espionage and actually don't know anything.

When in point of fact I have been at pains to point out that I am not an expert I am just someone on the forum posting about an interesting event in the world and giving my analysis and opinion:

...I am just a bod, on a forum, reporting what has happened, mostly from other sources on the Internet or in conversations with Joe public on the clapham omnibus, commenting on it all and giving my two penneth worth.

One of the joys of a forum is we are all free to do so...

2) You repeat the implication that I am the only one in the world saying this was amateur.

...You continue to call them amateur yet they completed the task they had.

You think they are amateur as they failed to consider the repercussions of their actions, but how do you know what they failed to think about and/or have planned for the future...

Yet both former CIA and Mossad agents and various experts through out the media have said the operation was both "Sloppy" and "Amateur"

http://blogs.news.sky.com/middleeastblog/Post:a705a1ee-57f4-403e-a9a1-7cef804bc46e

http://worldfocus.org/blog/2010/02/17/mahmoud-al-mabhouh-assassins-leave-trail-of-clues/9743/

What is it? Do you think that by the force of my malign overwhelming will and voodoo dolls I am able to influence the whole world BWAA HAA HAH HA HAW!? Get Real and return to this planet mate.

Every bod on the clapham omnibus is saying the same, except for the Intelligence equivalents of (M16 Rifle is better than an AK nuts) who think Mossad is the Uber Intelligence. It is just an intelligence agency mate every Nation State has one.

3) You say the

...The target entered Dubai on a false passport too i believe so he could have talks about supply of arms to Hamas, maybe thats a hint why he didn't have close protection, he wasn't actually there...

Yet as I already pointed out with evidence

Dubai’s police chief, Lt Gen Dahu Khalfan Tamim, confirmed that al Mabhouh had entered the country on a passport bearing his real name.
http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100131/FOREIGN/701309828/1002

My use bold to emphasize my point. As always follow link for the full article

4) On the matter of using bullet points and numbered lines:

...Anyway i'm sure you'll make another bullet pointed post of nonsense. It's like banging my head against a brick wall trying to tell you you actually know nothing.

I use bullet points and numbers to make it easier to understand and so that people who wish to debate with me may find it easier to do so.

On the matter of general tenor of argument

I think you may be mistaking my use of the analytical method of point by point analysis for what is the sole preserve of Military Intelligence. I boldly state this is incorrect, even high school kids are taught this. If you would dispute this I think considerably less of you.

This is a forum in which we are free to debate. I would rather bullet points and references than the blind faith statements with no reference to supporting facts and add homonym attacks.

This forum has a long standing tradition of vigorous but reasoned adult debate. It is part of the character of this forum and why many are attracted to it.

Dealing with the blind faith statement "They got their man and that is all that matters"

As I say IMHO for the reasons I have stated and given supporting evidence for my argument that the agents were encapsulated in much the same way as German Intelligence was by the Allies in Operation Fortitude. They were fooled because they want, despite the evidence, to believe their own myths of might, and that might makes right and that the blind faith statement that they got the bad guy and is all that matters.

I would point out that several people in this thread make the same blind faith statement "They got their man and that is all that matters".

I point out that my own UK Government and People, The Irish Government and People, And Now the French Government and People, as well as the Dubai Government and People, The Jordanian Government and People, the UAE Government and People, as well one would expect the whole Arab world and people would all vigorously dispute that. As in point of fact they are doing and as they did on the several other occasions that Mossad has foolish enough to show all and sundry it knickers.

I would also point out that the Israeli people are also turning against their Government in this matter.

I think the general opinion of most governments and people that the Idea that "They got their man and that is all that matters" does not then hold water. Either politically or in even in terms of its Intelligence benefit as I have already pointed out with analysis and supporting evidence.

Kind Regards walker

Edited by walker

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I copy and paste because people keep making the same unsupported statments that do not jell with facts.

Thats a bit ironic is it not?

Anyway i give up, it's just wall of text followed by a wall of text.

Rock is pretty spot on with his post.

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Sorry i have to agree with those guys, you dont know better than Mossad, this is beyond your interpretation and your facts are unconfirmed and you can never know everything.

Unless you know everything you're not in a poistion to judge.

Edited by ricbar89

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the fact it was plastered all over every TV network on the planet pretty much should sum up the mission.

Yes the target was taken care of, but man they brought a lot of heat down on themselves.

A good hit would have been as per normal, x y z man killed.

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I personally think they hit the wrong target, they clearly mistook him for Walker. Bloody stupid amateurs.

Lol!

From what I have seen/heard about this they seem to have got the job done, so they weren't that bad, and anyway, no-one knows who they are do they?

PS. Wasn't it Mossad who did this?

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Hi RKSL-Rock

I'm with the VCB lads on this...

Yes they do all have the same point of view as you don't they. Hmmm.

Apart from this being the funniest thread I've seen in ages, nothing I've read here can be considered as more than childish playground speculation. All i can see is that the "facts" as presented by Walker come from various unconfirmed sources and even the BBC, Sky and CNN keep repeating "apparently", "allegedly", "we are told". Yet on here Walker repeats every new speculation as total fact...

Which?

Where?

I have supported every argument. I made the point that it was Amateur with links to what real former CIA and Mossad agents said was "amateur" and "sloppy". I have pointed out the consequences of such an amateurish operation with links to the real negative results they have caused Israel politically, internationaly and in terms of its future intellegence operations.

Considering that Dubai is in the top 10 cities of the world with the most privately owned security cameras it was inevitable they would be caught on camera. C'mon you can't walk through a shopping mall these days without being caught on at least 10 cameras. Now try that in one of the richest capitals in the middle east? What do you think will happen...
Yes precisely my point; why did such an amateurish error get past operational planning?
@Walker - I really wish you would stop posting as though you are an expert on every topic you are as bad as plaintiff now.

It is an open forum if you do not wish to read it use the ignore button. But I suggest you leave attempts at censorship to communist China, Al Qaeda and Iran.

I think the subject of this asasination is worthy of comment and public debate and investigation; as do the media and UK Paliament and all UK Political Parties and the UK Fraud Squad as it involved the illegal use of UK Passports, ditto for France, Germany, Ireland, Dubai, the UAE, Israel, Jordan, America and indeed the rest of the world.

Once is funny and excusable but it happens so often now its not even worth making the "Walter Mitty" jokes anymore.

Now here you make you make clearly the add hominem attack the "VCB Lads" were perhaps attempting by inference and trolling. And once again I pointed out that I was not making out I was expert. I made it clear in several posts. That you mistake the normal analysis any remotely intelligent person can make for being 007 speak is your fantasy not mine. :D

I would make the point that if one resorts to add hominem attack as your only argument then sir one has nothing.

The mistaken belief that "They got their man and that is all that matters" is one I have dealt several times with supporting argument and evidense in my previous post and others. While your self and the "VCB Lads" seem incapable of raising a single argument to support it. Rather like a member of Al Qaida you just keep thinking if you shout Al UL AKBAR often enough it makes it true.

Allow me to reiterate with a simple copy and paste of the argument that still has not been refuted.

...Dealing with the blind faith statement "They got their man and that is all that matters"

As I say IMHO for the reasons I have stated and given supporting evidence for my argument that the agents were encapsulated in much the same way as German Intelligence was by the Allies in Operation Fortitude. They were fooled because they want, despite the evidence, to believe their own myths of might, and that might makes right and that the blind faith statement that they got the bad guy and is all that matters.

I would point out that several people in this thread make the same blind faith statement "They got their man and that is all that matters".

I point out that my own UK Government and People, The Irish Government and People, And Now the French Government and People, as well as the Dubai Government and People, The Jordanian Government and People, the UAE Government and People, as well one would expect the whole Arab world and people would all vigorously dispute that. As in point of fact they are doing and as they did on the several other occasions that Mossad has foolish enough to show all and sundry it knickers.

I would also point out that the Israeli people are also turning against their Government in this matter.

I think the general opinion of most governments and people that the Idea that "They got their man and that is all that matters" does not then hold water. Either politically or in even in terms of its Intelligence benefit as I have already pointed out with analysis and supporting evidence...

Kind Regards walker

Edited by walker

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The mistaken belief that "They got their man and that is all that matters" is one I have dealt several times with supporting argument and evidense in my previous post and others. While your self and the "VCB Lads" seem incapable of raising a single argument to support it. Rather like a member of Al Qaida you just keep thinking if you shout Al UL AKBAR often enough it makes it true.

What are you going on about? The people putting their opinion to you did not, to my knowledge, support any opinion on the matter because they, seemingly, feel that baseless speculation is a bad way to discuss the topic at hand.

People are criticising you because you are acting like a know-it-all without all the facts, without any real insight beyond a few news articles and no expertise in this line of work. Nobody is challenging your opinion, they are only pointing out that your opinion is far to assertive to be considered as anything other than the spew of a tin-foil-hat donning basement-dweller getting ahead of himself.

Your wild speculation is overshadowing any seriousness in this discussion.

Edited by Prydain

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...Now here you make you make clearly the add hominem attack the "VCB Lads" were perhaps attempting by inference. And once again I pointed out that I was not making out I was expert. I made it clear in several posts. That you mistake the normal analysis any remotely intelligent person can make for being 007 speak is your fantasy not mine.

No i don't think anything was inferred. It seems quite clear to me and others what they said. And I agree with them. A few people here have read the same thing into your posts and not just in this thread. I think its fair to say we all read your posts the same way. ie you are trying to imply some sort of insider knowledge that we all believe you do not have. You do it repeatedly in various threads on various topics.

However I must agree that anyone can analyse the "evidence" and come up with a theory. However it takes someone with a penchant for fantasy to join all the dots and proclaim to all and sundry that it was "amateur" and "sloppy" all the while inferring some sort of superior knowledge/experience by his tone.

In one of my previous offices we had a poster on the wall: "Instant Expert (open packet and wait, product will develop its own fertiliser in seconds)".

Anyone can speculate, and it is of course their right. But not everyone presents their opinions as solid fact so readily. You present "evidence" from unconfirmed sources and blatant speculation and rumour mongering as solid fact. You want your version of events to be fact and its not. Like every good story facets of it maybe true, its basis maybe traced back to real events and the meagre supply of real info the media has been given. But the conclusion is drawn from assumptions and fantastic leaps of "logic" to a theory that has as much basis in fact as the average TV cop show e.g.: It could happen that way but the odds are its not really true and its been exaggerated for viewer suspense.

I would make the point that if the only argument one has to make is an add hominem attack then sir one has nothing.

As for my "attack", your suggestion that i am posting purely to attack you is, lets not resort to obscure language here, utter bollocks. Yes I think you are a Walt. But i also believe that the basis for your conclusions are based more in the realm of fiction than an understanding of real world covert operations, their limits, requirements or priorities.

My own conclusion to all of this is quite simple. Its a Mossad job. They have previously carried out jobs like this and damned the consequences when they were found out.

Was it "amateur", I don't know. Because outside of the occasional spy novel and some Close Protection Training many, many years ago I don't have the expertise to pass judgement. And I'm not the sort to try. But as others have previously said: they did the job and got out of the country. Anything else maybe something that their political Masters can live with. Who knows? Sure as shit its not someone posting on public forums.

...While your self and the "VCB Lads" seem incapable of raising a single argument to support it. Rather like a member of Al Qaida you just keep thinking if you shout Al UL AKBAR often enough it makes it true.

We don't bother raising an argument because we all know its pointless speculating. Unless of course you like running off into the realm of fantasy. But you seem to be desperate to cling to your fiction. Condemning everyone that offers a conflicting opinion.

There really isn't anything else to say.

Edited by RKSL-Rock
a few bits of bad grammar

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Hi all

I think my opinion and the analysis I have done is no more than any sensible human can make. I think those who argue otherwise are best described in this article for tomorrow's edition of the Israeli News Paper Haaretz

Amateurs who live in the past

By Nehemia Shtrasler

Until the beginning of the week, it sounded like a great success - entering an Arab country in secret, liquidating a well-known terrorist, and leaving quietly. No one has taken responsibility for the assassination but, according to foreign sources, we are talking about the Mossad (and this will be the assumption, whether correct or not, throughout this piece). The initial result was applause for the sophisticated Mossad, which had acted at the highest level possible.

But then the Dubai police produced the best detective thriller in town - a full-length feature film with clear photographs of the anonymous actors. Thus it transpired that the super-professional Mossad, which supposedly acts like a sophisticated high-tech organization, is nothing more than an outdated agency that acts with worrisome amateurism.

The planners of the operation did not take into account that technology has advanced swiftly in the past few years. Once upon a time, in the analog world, it was sufficient to fake a passport, glue on a beard and dress up like a tennis player with a baseball cap. That's what is written in spy novels. But the world today is digital, computerized and connected to the media, with everything filmed - and those facts were apparently not taken into account by the Mossad...

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1150939.html

As always follow the link for the full article

OK Non Secure page version now available. :)

I think there are a whole bunch of people on this forum with an old fashioned secret squirrel up their arse (to bring the level down to one RKSL-Rock will be happier with)

This is the modern digital age. The idea that analysis is some Military Intelligence black art that only secret Dracula's in their black cloaks can practice is the same unadulterated tosh as this operation showed; with 20 Dollar CCTV cameras from Homebase Buffy the vampire slayer like, hammering the final stake through the secret Dracula's chest in a Dubai Hotel.

(All Purple Prose to make more readable to our younger audience) :D No insults to any real younger people with a High School Education intended ;)

Any Child with a High School education can perform an analysis of a CCTV film RKSL-Rock and the "VCB Lads" take note, your jobs may be at risk from their competition if you do not understand this.

By the way Google and Wikipedia are you friend RKSL-Rock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Kind Regards walker

Edited by walker

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Walker, actually, i've had a different thought. I think you are really a Secret Agent. Who are you working for, nobody knows. But looking through your posts, I notice a distinct pattern emerging; someone, who despite frequently denying any experience (cause lets face it, no spy would fess up), speaks with far too much authority for that to really be true. Lets look at the evidence.

If it was my Secret Service I would expect the head of the service on a platter and the government to fall.

That, my friends, is the voice of experience. Right there.

A stupid assassination plan like this would have got through British MI planning.

He obviously has indepth knowledge of the planning process of MI5/6. A British Agent perhaps? Maybe he's even a 00...Regardless, he knows exactly what goes on in British planning.

You never do stuff like this out in the open.

Such certainty. "You NEVER do stuff...." That sounds like a highly trained operative speaking to me.

Taser plus smothering in hotel room with CCTV is strictly amateur hour.

And with his background, I suppose he is qualified to say what counts as professional and what counts as amateur.

*%$~# Their Tradecraft is appalling.

Again, thats the sort of judgement only a highly trained operative could make. And he's made it. Infact, he's made it with such certainty, he's obviously one of the best they have....

Their key error though was location. That was not the spot to do the deed.

....infact, definitely the best they have. He's probably so good that soon he'll get jaded, "done with killing", retire to a monastery in Tibet, and have to be coaxed out by the kidnap of his friend/old CO/Daughter/countries nuclear arsenal....I can picture it now..."we need you back Walker....you're the best we have..."

The 4 man action team were probably former or serving special forces soldiers. Those are what most nations use for such work. Their training is not cheap but you will not find it in any nations budget.

We can see here, not only does he have insider knowledge on the sorts of backgrounds that agents come from, but also on what thier training involves, how expensive it is, and the nature of the budget it comes from.

The Agents providing surveillance and technical support are even more expensive to train

The evidence keeps mounting.

They would normally have had years of training;

And yet more insider knowledge of the training involved. Clearly a man who knows his trade.

The more I look at it the more I am convinced it was amateur hour.

Again, the voice of authority on what counts as amateur.

The complete failure to account for blow-back in this mission is frankly rank amateur.

Wow, not only does it looks like he is a Secret Agent, it also seems he was also involved in their planning process, because how else would he know if or not they had accounted for blow-back? Alarm bells should probably be ringing....we now know not only is he a spy, but he's on the insider track!!

Blow-back is a standard factor that needs to considered in all operations. Failing to consider it is amateurish.

Another indicator of being a highly trained operative; he knows all the "standard factors" involved. Hard-fucking-core.

It is not just an assassination mission it is a cost benefit analysis and on this one the costs outweighed the benefits.

Not only does he demonstrate a keen understanding of how assassination missions are weighed, he also demonstrates clear insider knowledge of the costs and benefits of this particular operation. Because lets face it, the full facts aren't available to us as Joe Public, but here he posts with utter certainty. Yet more evidence of his secret double life. And yet again, indications that he more involved than he lets on.

We all ready know all the agents identified in CCTV are useless

Thats abit harsh. Although given how many assassinations he's probably carried out without being caught, I guess we can forgive him for being hard on those who can't meet his high standards.

So, beyond all doubt I think we have proven that this Walker chap is up to stuff. Secret Agenty stuff. Questions to ask:

Who is Walker?

Who is he working for?!?

What was his involvement in the assassination?!??!

Why did he post this topic here!? Was it a sting?! Is he trying to draw us out!?

Who is his next target?

Trust nobody! Question everything!

Yeah see Walker, you're not the only one who can take a bunch of quotes, add an interpretation to them, come up with a retarded argument as a result, and then draw some equally retarded conclusions off of that argument.

Oh and by the way.

The idea that analysis is some Military Intelligence black art that only secret Dracula's in their black cloaks can practice is the same unadulterated tosh as this operation showed;

Baseless and uninformed speculation doth not analysis maketh. Not that i'm sure why i'm reiterating this, as it's what we've been telling you the last 12 pages. You know what, nobody cares about you speculating. See all the above quotes for examples of what people are objecting to. It's stuff like calling these guys amateurs. I mean, just on that one alone...who are you to call these guys amateurs? No, really, who are you to do so? No, don't give me that "someone else has called these guys amateurs so it's ok for me to say the same thing". What. Qualification. Do. You. Have. That. Gives. You. The. Right. To. Judge?

Yeah, didn't think so.

Edited by Pathy

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Hi all

I think my opinion and the analysis I have done is no more than any sensible human can make. I think those who argue otherwise are best described in this article for tomorrow's edition of the Israeli News Paper Haaretz

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1150939.html

As always follow the link for the full article

OK Non Secure page version now available. :)

I think there are a whole bunch of people on this forum with an old fashioned secret squirrel up their arse (to bring the level down to one RKSL-Rock will be happier with)

This is the modern digital age. The idea that analysis is some Military Intelligence black art that only secret Dracula's in their black cloaks can practice is the same unadulterated tosh as this operation showed; with 20 Dollar CCTV cameras from Homebase Buffy the vampire slayer like, hammering the final stake through the secret Dracula's chest in a Dubai Hotel.

(All Purple Prose to make more readable to our younger audience) :D No insults to any real younger people with a High School Education intended ;)

Any Child with a High School education can perform an analysis of a CCTV film RKSL-Rock and the "VCB Lads" take note, your jobs may be at risk from their competition if you do not understand this.

By the way Google and Wikipedia are you friend RKSL-Rock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Kind Regards walker

Point - They clipped the guy and left the scene unhindered, I'd hardly call that "amateur night".

No doubt it was a judgement call and they felt it was the most opportune time to engage the target.

What happens next, as it appears that it was a Mossad Op, is still very much up in the air.

Edited by BangTail

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Hi Pathy

Get that secret Squirel out of your arse mate it is using you as a sock puppet but thanks for the ROFL.

Ain't no Secret Dracula work their mate just plane old high school analysis. Supported in each case by linked evidense.

In Reply to BangTail read what I said about

Dealing with the blind faith statement "They got their man and that is all that matters"

A few posts up.

It is tactically correct but strategically wrong.

I think that like the Mossad agents the Haaretz article talks about you are thinking tactically not strategically.

Tactics and powerful weapons can win all the battles in a war yet loose you the war strategically. Go read your Sun Tzu, or Machiavelli or Carl von Clausewitz.

Kind Regards walker

Edited by walker

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I suppose it's only sensible that you deny it. You wouldn't want to blow your deep cover.

Edit: Crap! I guess i'll be next on the hitlist now i'm onto you! Mind you, you'd better make sure the team you send are more professional this time! I want it to be like in the movies and books where I die without anyone even realising it! If i'm gonna go, I don't want any of this amateur hour "successfully kill the target and flee the country without being properly identified" shit.

Edited by Pathy

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I'm more than certain walker is right and you are all jealous of his superior analytical mind.

You can't even imagine how much experience and operational knowledge can be achieved by playing Hitman and Bomberman! I mean, unless he has a PA that wrote almost 5,000 posts it must be where the wisdom is coming from ...

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I suppose it's only sensible that you deny it. Wouldn't want to blow your deep cover.

Hi Pathy

You keep on slogging away with your Ad Homenim Inference attack it has been your only weapon through out this thread.

Instead of arguing the tactical points I make; for some unknown strange reason in your last post you try to build some case that I am trying to infer I am a secret agent whoo. Yet every time you attempted to do so I clearly and unambiguously refuted your inference by stating I am just a person on a forum.

For some reason that is unclear you seem to think that only Secret Squirrels can comment on such things, which is tosh. And that any one using what is after all public language available, to one and all; is in some way stepping on the toes of some fanciful Secret Dracula's by using some arcane mystical words which for some unknown reason you venerate.

What language am I supposed to use when writing a comment describing the actions of Security Service Operation? Am I supposed to refer to Tradecraft as gobblysplatthing?

I have not described a single thing that is not available to any bod on the Clapham Omnibus, no secret squirrel work their mate. Anyone with access to a library can find a 100 books by former agents and special forces bods describing in detail how for instance their budgets work. This is not secret Pathe it is available to one and all.

Yet you have never once addressed the Strategic Failure of the operation that my whole argument is based on. That they were filmed throughout their operation. Their faces photographed and their fake passports tracked back all the way to Israel.

That is reason the operation was a tactical success and a strategic failure.

I suggest you educate your self as to why you fail to think strategically.

Kind regards walker

Edited by walker

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I knew it! I'm onto you! Deny it all you will! You can't fool me!

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Hi Walker

Thanks. You too. Please don't taser and smother me whilst I sleep. That would be very unprofessional.

Kind Regards Pathy.

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