Tanks can be destroyed by 25mm HE

[oxmox 73]

I did some testings with the editor and was a bit shocked that you can destroy main battle tanks i.e. ma1a1, t-72 and so on with only 25mm HE.

Test vehicle: LAV-25 with 25mm M242 Bushmaster auto cannon.

Ammo used: 25mm HEI-T

Not even AP rounds were needed...the range was around 750-800m.

Honestly HE rounds should not be capable to penetrate that.

[jasonnoguchi 11]

is that from the original game or modded?

tanks in the original is weak as hell. You can go tank busting using RPGs for goodness sake! hahahha RPGs hardly hurt up-armored humvees in real life and literally bounce off tanks but you can bust tanks with RPGs in the original game. :) ACE mod made it a lot more realistic and seriously improved the survivability of tanks.

[oxmox 73]

original game version 1.05 of course, this is a little bit a joke when HE can penetrate main battle tanks and kill them at 800m around. I know that ACE2 is different but thats a player made mod, i will test ACE2 later with the editor.

[max power 21]

They have just put into the game a new variable for calculating tank damage, it just seems to not be fully in yet. It has been a long standing complaint that you can 'wear down' the hit points of any vehicle, house, or what have you in OFP/ArmA/ArmA 2. Now they have just put in a 'minimalHit' or something (I don't quite remember) variable that specifies the minimum damage required to 'hurt' something in ArmA. Expect improvements in the future.

[oxmox 73]

I did test the same with AP rounds and it seems that you need about the double amount of HE rounds in comparison to AP. But since they fire 200 rounds per minute its not that much time. Curios if it is a similar time like the loading time from 120/125mm ammunition :P

[max power 21]

AP rounds likely do more damage but have less of a blast radius.

[oxmox 73]

The blast radius is irrelevant at such heavy armored vehicles, HE is vs soft targets or none armored vehicles so far i know.

[Alex72 1]

The values need tweaking thats all. Things like this is better made a ticket over at Dev Heaven as its easier for BIS to check it there instead of buried posts here.

Find what ammo is causing it and make a simple yet informative ticket about it.

[PuFu 4600]

They have just put into the game a new variable for calculating tank damage, it just seems to not be fully in yet. It has been a long standing complaint that you can 'wear down' the hit points of any vehicle, house, or what have you in OFP/ArmA/ArmA 2. Now they have just put in a 'minimalHit' or something (I don't quite remember) variable that specifies the minimum damage required to 'hurt' something in ArmA. Expect improvements in the future.

True, but unfortunately the minimalHit doesn't really work as one would expect in the first place

[maddogx 13]

True, but unfortunately the minimalHit doesn't really work as one would expect in the first place

How so?

[oxmox 73]

Alright did test it with ACE2 and I could not destroy the tank with HE or/and AP rounds at all, did shoot both 200 rounds at the tank altogether.

I did notice after around 100-120 rounds the AI crew did jump out, so AI seems not influenced by ACE2 but armor values.

---------- Post added at 10:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 AM ----------

The values need tweaking thats all. Things like this is better made a ticket over at Dev Heaven as its easier for BIS to check it there instead of buried posts here.

Find what ammo is causing it and make a simple yet informative ticket about it.

I just want to discuss with people about some things i like to, not allowed ?

Edited January 20, 2010 by oxmox

[Leopardi 0]

You could disable a tank in real life with 25mm HE, if not completely penetrating then the crew gets unoperable at such pounding.

[deralky 10]

the problem is that in Arma the tanks have a "HP" System so you can destroy a Tank with a MG when shooting long enough

[oxmox 73]

Yeah i guess so...they have certain hitpoints. But i wonder why they just cant exclude certain weapons or rounds which would do no dmg at all to certain units i.e. heavy tanks.

[Alex72 1]

I just want to discuss with people about some things i like to, not allowed ?

Oh ofcourse mate. :) I didnt mean for you to shut up lol. Just told you the proper way to ticket it and get BIS attention to fix it if you think something is messed up.

[oxmox 73]

I did notice with ACE2 i could not destroy a T-72 with a TOW Stryker.

4x direct TOW hits on the t-72 at 800m and only crew did jump out after the first hit already but no explosion or burning vehicle. So this is also strange since it is the opposite of the HE issue, the tow can penetrate 600mm up to 3000m so far i did read mmmmh.

@Alex72, sorry i was a bit too much upset currently.

Edited January 20, 2010 by oxmox

[HyperU2 11]

I did notice with ACE2 i could not destroy a T-72 with a TOW Stryker.

4x direct TOW hits on the t-72 at 800m and only crew did jump out after the first hit already but no explosion or burning vehicle. So this is also strange since it is the opposite of the HE issue, the tow can penetrate 600mm up to 3000m so far i did read mmmmh.

ACE2 has it's own armor strength issues. I tried to ambush two T90's with a total of 10 AT mines, and the first tank took them all and kept going.

yXGwNE2Y-Ak

[thales100 10]

4x direct TOW hits on the t-72 at 800m and only crew did jump out after the first hit already but no explosion or burning vehicle. So this is also strange since it is the opposite of the HE issue, the tow can penetrate 600mm up to 3000m so far i did read mmmmh.

Yep, maybe the damage values need to be tweaked, its great to not have these hardcoded.

[jasonnoguchi 11]

In fact, you could destroy T-72s using 0.5 MG! :) about 150 rounds.

[oxmox 73]

Alright tried ACE2 mod with Bradley:

If you use the Bradley light tank you will notice that you have 2x TOW´s and the reloading is really long.

I did shoot all my TOW´s to the T-72B and had no missiles left...i could not take out the tank only dmg.

Did anyone write a ticket about this to the ACE2 devs..i think this is really an issue since the light tanks which should be capable to destroy also heavy ones are useless vs heavy armored vehicles when they use their heavy firepower i.e. missiles.

I will try to test more units i.e. BMP3 and so on...lets see hwo they work with ace2 and without. Seems like ace2 has its problems aswell like the original game.

[king homer 1]

I did notice with ACE2 i could not destroy a T-72 with a TOW Stryker.

4x direct TOW hits on the t-72 at 800m and only crew did jump out after the first hit already but no explosion or burning vehicle. So this is also strange since it is the opposite of the HE issue, the tow can penetrate 600mm up to 3000m so far i did read mmmmh.

@Alex72, sorry i was a bit too much upset currently.

TOW2 can penetrate up to 1000 mm of RHA, depending on the type of missile.

The TOW2 in ACE2 is a one-shot-kill weapon when used against standard T-72s . Either an addons is conflicting with ACE2 or you did not hit properly.

ACE2 has it's own armor strength issues. I tried to ambush two T90's with a total of 10 AT mines, and the first tank took them all and kept going.

Depending on the type of mine in Arma2, mins will only disable tracks of tanks. Currently the mines are not set up correctly.

[oxmox 73]

Either an addons is conflicting with ACE2 or you did not hit properly.

I use only the ace2 mod not any other ones, maybe its an animation issue. I will try it again lets see.

---------- Post added at 11:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 AM ----------

I did test it again with ACE2 and something is odd.

When i hit with a m1a1 an enemy jeep i see the flame when it is destroyed and the destroyed hull.

When i hit a t-72B i see only parts of the tracks destroyed at the side i did hit. After i did hit the t-72B with 20 120mm AP rounds the animation is not different. There is no flame, explosion like i saw with the jeep or without ace2.

[HyperU2 11]

Depending on the type of mine in Arma2, mins will only disable tracks of tanks. Currently the mines are not set up correctly.

You mean with ACE2? Never had a problem with that in Vanilla, and I think with 10 I should have damaged a track.

[oxmox 73]

Anyone else has the problem to not see any flames or explosions when you hit tanks in the editor with ace2 ? Donno what is my problem here...without ace my m1a1 hits the t-72 and he explodes and flames are visible, with ace2 i dont see that at all doesnt matter how many rounds i use.

This makes testing ace2 impossible for me when i dont see the animation like without the mod for certain vehicles at least mmh.

Edited January 20, 2010 by oxmox

[NoRailgunner 0]

Since when people are begging BIS to implement a proper/realistic damage and penetration system?

The whole combat in Arma2 with vehicles is neither military nor is it simulation. Lets see if BIS devs are making progress or if they are going to make Arma2/OA more accessible for casual/mainstream players.