Dutch Army

[Pteradon 0]

EDIT:

Just thought of something else, considering the combat boots.

Dutch soldiers blouse their trousers, the trousers dont go over the boots but are 'curled on top' for lack of a better description :p

A small detail, but it would make them look even more authentic i think.

You can see this on the pic i posted before too.

True, thats normal way, for most dutch units, whom are doing "normal" duty's or are at the base.

But, there are circumstances where the dutch (infantry) soldier is free of choice, of how to wear they trousers. (hot weather / combat situations)

yeh no worries, no offence taken. again they're just usmc reskisns hence the untucked boots. I could always use the CDF guys to get the tucked in boots which i may do. Moving the shoulder patch is no big deal either :).

;)

[Winchester Delta_1 0]

HEy man... toffe Mod. Zat ik lang op te wachten. Maar zou je de units independent van de andere wapen mods kunnen maken. Want ik wil ze graag gebruiken op de server. Maar die wapen mods juist niet. Zou echt tof van je zijn. Keep it going man.

[sic-disaster 311]

True, thats normal way, for most dutch units, whom are doing "normal" duty's or are at the base.

But, there are circumstances where the dutch (infantry) soldier is free of choice, of how to wear they trousers. (hot weather / combat situations)

True.

Maybe the desert units could be left as they are now with only fixing the Dutch flag on the arm, while the woodland units get the tucked in trousers?

Would be a nice reflection on the type of terrain they are dealing with, in a regular European terrain you dont get dirt etc in your boots that quickly, but in a desert all too quickly i'd think. Which is why it would be better to roll down the trousers.

Would be a cool detail.

There's another thing i'm thinking about though.

Do Dutch soldiers wear those 'dickplates'? I honestly cant think of another name for them :P

That slab-like thing that hangs down from the combat vest doesnt seem to belong, but i'm not sure.

[Aeneas2020 10]

Again that's the USMC armour. The reason i chose to do them as the USMC guys rather than the CDF ones was simply because i already had the USMC guys grey scaled out (i.e. where i paint my own grey texture over the BI one to make camo application easier). Now if i want to go ahead and do custom models that would take considerably more time especially because i have no idea what i'm doing in O2. However if there is enough interest in a dutch army mod i may do it.

Either way im working on the CDF guys right now anyway so...I can get the boots tucked in guys but i'll also hold out and do the commandos while im there so enjoy these guys for now eta on next update is when i have some more free time :)

p.s. wouldn't you want something protecting you man hood from shrapnel and bullets? I know i would lol.

Edited January 12, 2010 by Aeneas2020

[Buzz_Fledderjohn 0]

It's based on the USMC model so there are going to be sacrifices when it comes to realism, but that's just something we have to live with.

I dunno, a Dutch mod sounds awesome but I'm not sure if we (from Tangodown) have the manpower for such a thing. We can always brainstorm of course, I see that there are quite a few Dutchies here as well.

As for the criticism, here's what I have found so far. Some of these things have nothing to do with the units.

1. I could be wrong on this, but I think the DPM is a little bit off. The pattern is the same as the UK DPM, so that is correct, but as you can see in the following links there is a slight difference in colours.
   Dutch DPM (example 1)
   UK DPM (example 1)
   Dutch DPM (example 2)
   UK DPM (example 2)
   You can see the differences. IMO the DPM of your units are currently closer to the British DPM than the Dutch DPM. Again, I could be wrong.
   
2. C7's and C8's with Elcan sights would make this addon even better, but I know you don't have control over this. I'm hoping someone makes these weapons very soon. We already have an Elcan model, why not jam that dude on top of the BIS M16 model and then change some minor things like the plastic magazines? There you go, C7. :D Then they can also be used for the Danish units.
   
3. After SiC's comments about the flag I did some research and it seems that in the majority of the pics (but a few) the flag is actually on the left side, usually on top of the arm pocket (sometimes on the flap, sometimes on the pocket itself). The ISAF patch, it seems, usually goes on the right arm. BTW - imo you shouldn't add the ISAF patch because it's more of an Afghanistan thing.
   
4. The helmet cover - it has these "stringy" things on them, both desert and woodland, kinda hard to explain. See those pics of the helmet I sent you. Is it possible to add those using textures?
   I'll send you some KCT stuff soon.
   

EDIT: I also see some units like the UK or Australian units who don't have the crotch plate, which 3D model are they using? Their own? CDF?

EDIT 2: Now that I look at those camouflage sites again, it seems that there IS a difference in the pattern. Now I'm confused. :(

Edited January 12, 2010 by Buzz_Fledderjohn

[=kct=blackmamba 44]

beautiful aeneas,

realy nice screens m8...

cant whait to see them in action,

is someone working on dutch equipment too?

eindelijk onze jongens in actie...

mooi MAN

krijgen ze ook het nederlandse gereedschap diemago's enzow...

deze post hou ik in de gaten....

Edited January 12, 2010 by =KCT=BlackMamba

[Killg0re 0]

Good work.

Any chance on bikey files?

[Aeneas2020 10]

LOL yeh i'll get them done asap...sorry im a lazy arse when it comes to doing anything other than the textures. sorry guys

[sic-disaster 311]

I checked through a mate of mine, and Nimster is correct that the Dutch flag is actually on the left side of the uniform.

I couldnt remember, and i didnt really think about it, but now that it got mentioned i asked so there you go :)

Those 'stringy things' Nimsky mentioned are a part of the helmet cover, but they are stitched on. They are used to stick camouflage stuff under, leaves, branches and that kind of stuff.

It would indeed be nice to have those visible on the helmet.

Man, i'm feeling like i'm asking way to much after we've gotten so much!

It almost makes me feel ashamed :p

[Aeneas2020 10]

gotta disagree about the left arm thing...because the way i had it set up all my flags appear on the left arm and i had to change them especially for the dutch. Got a load of examples but here is one

http://www.assembly-weu.org/en/documents/sessions_ordinaires/rpt/2007/1990-15.gif

as far as the helmet things go i would love to do them but it would require a new rvmat which i didn't want to do for the 1st release, again coz im a lazy git but i promise i will do them for the next one.

and SiC don't worry about it, you me and and nimsky go way back and you should know from my RO days i'm a perfectionist all my work is WIP so suggestions are always welcomed.

THE THING IS WITH BLOODY RESEARCH IS I HAVE 10 OR SO REFS SHOWING THE RIGHT ARM AND THEN I GO AND PULL UP 1 PIC AND I FIND THIS

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2278/2206062937_5e360642d2.jpg?v=0

ARGGGGH! you silly dutch people with your alternating arm flags lol! driving me crazy here. Also does anyone have any info on dutch body armour?

Edited January 12, 2010 by Aeneas2020

[Pteradon 0]

Sorry Aeneas2020, but SiC-Disaster is right about the Dutch flag.:)

The Dutch flag is always worn on the left arm.

Dutch soldiers wear division/brigade patches on their right arm,

or others like the UN / IFOR / SFOR / ISAF.

examples of those;

Luchtmobiele Brigade - air assault brigade

http://www.nato.int/pictures/2006/060906b/b060906ag.jpg

But there are some dutch units, like the unit i was in, don't wear any shoulder patches / flags or rank patches, when they are doing tactical (green) operations.

The body amour i did wear was this model;

But im not sure if they are still using this model.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Pteradon
Better quality picture body armour

[Aeneas2020 10]

Sorry Aeneas2020, but SiC-Disaster is right about the Dutch flag.:)

The Dutch flag is always worn on the left arm.

Dutch soldiers wear division/brigade patches on their right arm,

or others like the UN / IFOR / SFOR / ISAF.

examples of those;

Luchtmobiele Brigade - air assault brigade

http://www.nato.int/pictures/2006/060906b/b060906ag.jpg

But there are some dutch units, like the unit i was in, don't wear any shoulder patches / flags or rank patches, when they are doing tactical (green) operations.

The body amour i did wear was this model;

But im not sure if they are still using this model.

Thanks i can work with this...i don't know why i have so many pics of them with it on their right arm then what a bugger.

[STALKERGB 6]

It's based on the USMC model so there are going to be sacrifices when it comes to realism, but that's just something we have to live with.

I dunno, a Dutch mod sounds awesome but I'm not sure if we (from Tangodown) have the manpower for such a thing. We can always brainstorm of course, I see that there are quite a few Dutchies here as well.

As for the criticism, here's what I have found so far. Some of these things have nothing to do with the units.

1. I could be wrong on this, but I think the DPM is a little bit off. The pattern is the same as the UK DPM, so that is correct, but as you can see in the following links there is a slight difference in colours.
   Dutch DPM (example 1)
   UK DPM (example 1)
   Dutch DPM (example 2)
   UK DPM (example 2)
   You can see the differences. IMO the DPM of your units are currently closer to the British DPM than the Dutch DPM. Again, I could be wrong.
   
2. C7's and C8's with Elcan sights would make this addon even better, but I know you don't have control over this. I'm hoping someone makes these weapons very soon. We already have an Elcan model, why not jam that dude on top of the BIS M16 model and then change some minor things like the plastic magazines? There you go, C7. :D Then they can also be used for the Danish units.
   
3. After SiC's comments about the flag I did some research and it seems that in the majority of the pics (but a few) the flag is actually on the left side, usually on top of the arm pocket (sometimes on the flap, sometimes on the pocket itself). The ISAF patch, it seems, usually goes on the right arm. BTW - imo you shouldn't add the ISAF patch because it's more of an Afghanistan thing.
   
4. The helmet cover - it has these "stringy" things on them, both desert and woodland, kinda hard to explain. See those pics of the helmet I sent you. Is it possible to add those using textures?
   I'll send you some KCT stuff soon.
   

EDIT: I also see some units like the UK or Australian units who don't have the crotch plate, which 3D model are they using? Their own? CDF?

EDIT 2: Now that I look at those camouflage sites again, it seems that there IS a difference in the pattern. Now I'm confused. :(

There may be a difference in the DPM colours but i believe what you have found is the super annoying property of DPM for addon makers. It never seems to look the same in any two pictures! Looking at my DPM's in my cupboard (UK S95 ones that is) my trousers are far less tan than my jacket, infact all the colours seem to be lighter on my trousers. Its most likely wear and tear but it makes it really hard to compare pattern colours.

Although, I would guess the Dutch have a slightly different colour scheme.

[Buzz_Fledderjohn 0]

Good pic of the location of the flag as well as the elastic bands on the helmet.

[Aeneas2020 10]

Thanks for the comments stalker. @ Buzz the pattern I used on the temperate guys was taken from a dutch pattern jacket swatch i found online. I then spent a great deal of time making sure it appeared the exact same colour in game. However adjustments can always be made.

[Binkowski 26]

Good pictures, I know how hard it can be to get pictures for reference. Which is why I mainly stick with US Stuff, I can just get my own reference from my own gear and guys in my platoon.

[Pteradon 0]

@ Buzz the pattern I used on the temperate guys was taken from a dutch pattern jacket swatch i found online. I then spent a great deal of time making sure it appeared the exact same colour in game. However adjustments can always be made.

I really appreciate it, that you're taking it very serious.

Even that you spend alot of time making sure it appeared the exact same colour in game.:)

But the dutch army has more than one supplier for thier clothes,

wich results in some difference in color of the DPM.

Some examples;

And an example of the helmet.

[Aeneas2020 10]

Yikes...ok well that would explain that. In the meantime its up to you guys I can release a hot fix with the flag on the correct shoulder or I can mess around for a few weeks and see if i can get something with the body armour etc fixed and then do a proper release?

[STALKERGB 6]

I think also the camera used to take the picture can make a big difference, i know i can get really varied results with mine and my DPM.

[Aeneas2020 10]

Yeh i agree, if i take a picture of my own brit dpm with my camera and just change the background lighting or flash on or off the difference is night and day. Either way i don't think i'll get everyone to be happy with it.

[sic-disaster 311]

A quick fix would be appreciated, but it isnt too big of a deal.

What's more important then the flag imo is getting the addon signed so we can use it on our server ^^

Right now we have to allow every mod without a key to be able to play with them, which isnt preferable since that also means people can colour the Opfor pink so they stand out more while playing :p

So if you were able to do a quick fix with the flag and a key, that would be really awesome.

But dont feel pressured or anything :)

[Aeneas2020 10]

A quick fix would be appreciated, but it isnt too big of a deal.

What's more important then the flag imo is getting the addon signed so we can use it on our server ^^

Right now we have to allow every mod without a key to be able to play with them, which isnt preferable since that also means people can colour the Opfor pink so they stand out more while playing :p

So if you were able to do a quick fix with the flag and a key, that would be really awesome.

But dont feel pressured or anything :)

You'll have one this weekend plus maybe a little something else if i can get the wife to allow me to stay up late on Friday lol.

[sic-disaster 311]

Awesome mate, just awesome.

Last night we were testing a beta version of my upcoming mission featuring your units.

You can have a look at them here: http://www.tangodown.nl/forum/thread-1014.html

There are some pretty cool screenshots in there if i say so myself, and being able to play as a Dutch soldier added so much to the atmosphere for me, just amazing :)

[lennard 447]

Here are some pictures of the body armour the Dutch use.

http://s193.photobucket.com/albums/z265/Lennard91/KMar/

Also a pic of Dutch marines, they currently use US Woodland camo and Mich helmets.

[Killg0re 0]

Awesome mate, just awesome.

Last night we were testing a beta version of my upcoming mission featuring your units.

You can have a look at them here: http://www.tangodown.nl/forum/thread-1014.html

There are some pretty cool screenshots in there if i say so myself, and being able to play as a Dutch soldier added so much to the atmosphere for me, just amazing :)

Aneas we tested our unit's thouroughly yesterday.

But when someone died (MP game) then i got a message: about a Dutch unit not found, i believe it was: Dutch_Army_UNITSPEC not found

The Server RPT reports:

Conflicting addon Dutch_Army_UNITSPEC in 'a2020_dutchtp\', previous definition in 'a2020_dutchds\'

And i'fe u can sign the unit's.... that would be great :D

Edited January 14, 2010 by Killg0re
Details on error