Mid east

[bn880 5]

If you keep bringing up what has been a very long time ago you are promoting the continuing violence, supporting Israel you really are.

I don't think your version of the past is complete, history is longer than that.

EDIT: the only way to grasp peace is to look at the current situation and settle it, since it is a stale mate.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

I can not argue my view in the way I want to, I guess. Sam is right, the people of Palestine should be moved to a country where there is a culture they belong too. That land is Isreal's and nobody elses, Isreal won it, and now the Arabs want it back, even though it is clearly not theirs! Anybody with two eyes, and a little bit of common sense can see that Isreal is right.

[bogo 0]

This was very inacurate and racist remarks you made there Sam Samson.

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fact is also: palestine under the osman empire (until 1919) was pretty much unclaimed land. and even after it became british nobody gave a rip about it.

mark twain visited the land in the 1800s and then wrote about its barren, desertlike, arrid hostility towards life. no steaming, lush green arab homeland there.

<span id='postcolor'>

In fact the population of Palestine in 1918 was 700.000 wich only 6 % where Jews.

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the arabs came after the jews tilled the soil and something came up. and they left in '48 because their arab brothers told them to. otherwise they would be stuck in the war they were prepared to wage against israel in the case it dared to proclaim itself.

<span id='postcolor'>

What the heck are you talking about. Check your history books and read about the war that was 1948 til 1949.

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well, they did make war and lost it. now their descendants want back. is arabia that small that it needs that tiny strip of israeli land?

<span id='postcolor'>

Let me remind you that middle east may look big on the map but only small precentage of the land

Can be used.

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reassigning populations can be done, you know.

the german sudetenlanders ( 3.mil) were displaced by czechia after ww2 and integrated into western germany w/o problems.

the turks and the greeks exchanged populations in the 20th century. they still don't love one another, but they manage to get along.

<span id='postcolor'>

Ohh sow it’s ok if you take over a country and displace people that have been living there for thousands of years. Ges’t because the other neibourghs are speaking the same language.

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it would work with the palestinians too, (integrating them into greater arabia), but they won't do it. mainly because of religious reasons. (a land that has at one time been ruled by moslems, as israel has, can never be surrendered again to infidels.)

<span id='postcolor'>

Sow moslems are infedels what about Christian are they also infedels because they don’t belive in the same religion as the jews.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Aug. 25 2002,20:O3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">pls bear in mind that the original assassini, the ones from which this word is derived, were a radical islamic sect.<span id='postcolor'>

Umm... so what?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Aug. 25 2002,20:O3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">fact is also: palestine under the osman empire (until 1919) was pretty much unclaimed land. and even after it became british nobody gave a rip about it.<span id='postcolor'>

Were you there at the time?

Did you read this somewhere?

Are you just making this all up?

Probably the third cuz it just ain't true.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Aug. 25 2002,20:O3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">mark twain visited the land in the 1800s and then wrote about its barren, desertlike, arrid hostility towards life. no steaming, lush green arab homeland there.<span id='postcolor'>

So let me get this right.  You're saying that because Mark Twain did not find a steaming, lush green jungle when he visited the Negev desert in the 1800s, that it's alright to burn people and their friends to death for resisting an occupation in 2001.  Are you on drugs?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Aug. 25 2002,20:O3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the arabs came after the jews tilled the soil and something came up. and they left in '48 because their arab brothers told them to.<span id='postcolor'>

Yup... definitely drugs.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Aug. 25 2002,20:O3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">reassigning populations can be done, you know.<span id='postcolor'>

Sorry.  These days ethnic cleansing by force is illegal - a crime against humanity.  

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Aug. 25 2002,20:O3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">it would work with the palestinians too, (integrating them into greater arabia)<span id='postcolor'>

Greater Arabia?  Where's that?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Aug. 25 2002,20:O3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">my sympathies clearly lie with israel.<span id='postcolor'>

...And I'm sure that a lot of other folks who also rely on Mark Twain for their knowledge of history might feel the same way.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Oh well.................

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 25 2002,23:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anybody with two eyes, and a little bit of common sense can see that Isreal is right. <span id='postcolor'>

 <= one-eyed smilie

[KingBeast 0]

lmao Bernadotte

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

the most terrible thing that could have happened to the conflict is happening now. Consistency of unchanged matters, medial boredom.....

[DarkLight 0]

KILL HIM BERNADOTTE!!!!

Lol, i love the way you were replying on his quotes!!!!

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Aug. 26 2002,19:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KILL HIM BERNADOTTE!!!!<span id='postcolor'>

negative...

can't get there...

[Sam Samson 0]

killers among us? beware.

good thing you can't get there. my home is guarded by a SW .44 mag. I felled little trees with it.

but let me reply a little, yer hollow points:

I'm a racist!? argh!

umm. now I know why my wife calls me hun!

not as in "honey", but as in "attila the hun"!

shucks. the things you learn about yourself by posting here...

come to think of it! on the weekend I played chess against a friend of mine. he's black. and I beat him every time! yep. guess that's further proof that I'm hopelessly white supremacist.

maybe I suffer from amnesia. let me check in my file cabinet. maybe I'm even ku klux grand wizzard and forgot about it! ...you know, in winter I wear something like a white robe to bed sometimes. musta misplaced the hood somewhere. yeah! now I remember! lent it to a palestinian streetfighter.

well no... I'm supposed to be anti-palestinian here. that must be a conjured up memory...

for crying out loud, guys! get a grip. not everybody is a racist who acknowledges israel's right to exist. where else do they have to go? when will you be satisfied? when the last jew surrenders and jumps into the sea?

no I wasn't there in 1900. but I quoted somebody who was actually at the scene then, (the scorned mr twain). who do you have as a witness?

the few - mostly nomadic - arabs there were subsistence shepherds then, like arabs traditionally are. kapish? you don't want to tell me that the farming kibbuz is an arab invention, do you? not with a straight face you don't.

when the desert started to bloom under the israeli hand, arabs came also to work there, like they still do. these migrant field hands were encouraged to leave by their arab brethren when they were poised to attack israel in '48. now their descendants want back. after living for 50 years in these horrid camps while their stinkin' filthy rich brothers looked on and did nothing to alleviate their immense pain. (gasp.)

[Sam Samson 0]

also don't tell me I don't know anything about palestinians: I lived together with one when I lived in tulsa.

that guy was a christian though. maybe that's why we got along so well.

I find your reasoning rather shallow. after all, I proposed a solution, while all you did was snipe at me for it. sorry.

but realizing you are probably media-conditioned europeans, barely out of dictatorship yourself, I take you with a grain of salt in your stand against the jews. deep down in your heart you're better than that.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I just think it is ashame that we got no arab members in this forum. We got a few Israeli members here that know a lot, we got a few american members that ................ (please insert your prejudice) and we got a couple of Kno-it-all eurosnobs (including me).

Maybe it is because they dont understand OFP. Maybe if we would implement suicide-units and bomb-belts into the next Resistance as well as civillian targets we could promote OFP better in the arab world (dont hit me for that, just kiddin)

[bn880 5]

Sam, what's this talk of racism? I read the posts and did not see anyone call you a racist. (I'm tired maybe that's why).

Anyway, I don't see you being really attacked by anyone here Sam, people are just surprized at what you are saying and completely disagree.

And you get a one eyed smile from me too

good one Bernadotte!

[Sam Samson 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Posted: Aug. 25 2002,23:51 by Bogo

 

This was very inacurate and racist remarks you made there Sam Samson.<span id='postcolor'>

one last word: this one guy in his post above griping about me using the term infidel: you misunderstood. probably my fault for using unclear language (or expecting too much intellectual dexterity).

what I said was: the arabs as MOSLEMS will never accept the right of israel to exist, because israel was once under islamic rule. and a country which was once islamic can never allowed to become occupied by infidels, (in this case they mean the jews), again. so. its not me calling anybody infidel, its the moslems. that's what I meant.

but I maintain indeed that a great many palestinians of today are not exactly high on fidelity.

c'mon bernadottie, give me your best shot now.  

[bogo 0]

Last time i cheked what racism was it wasen't appointed to a ceartyn color or race or religion.

You don't have to be white to be a racist.

Any arab or a moslem who will here those words will think that you are a racist:

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can never be surrendered again to infidels.

<span id='postcolor'>

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I proposed a solution, while all you did was snipe at me for it

<span id='postcolor'>

and you resolution is

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it would work with the palestinians too, (integrating them into greater arabia

<span id='postcolor'>

Sow let me see you think it's right to kick out people that have been living there for thousands

of years ges't because theyr neibourghs speek the same language. Well what about America, Canada,

Australia and New zeland is that ok if you táke over those country and send them to uk just because

they are speaking english.

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the few - mostly nomadic - arabs there were subsistence shepherds then, like arabs traditionally are. kapish?

<span id='postcolor'>

Tell me where do you get your facts from, like i told you 1918 there was a population of 700.000 wich 6 % where

jews. Would you tell me that 700.000 people where moving up and down in palestina. I would recommend you to pick

up a history book and read.

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when the desert started to bloom under the israeli hand, arabs came also to work there, like they still do.

these migrant field hands were encouraged to leave by their arab brethren when they were poised to attack israel in '48. now their descendants want back.

<span id='postcolor'>

Lol i don't know even where to start. Again pick a book and start reading some history and some facts

because the the history wich you are telling is far from the truth.

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you don't want to tell me that the farming kibbuz is an arab invention, do you? not with a straight face you don't.

<span id='postcolor'>

Have i sad that kibutz is arabic invention. No. But sow what is that the only way to farm a land are the jews the only

ones that know how to farm. You must think that the arabs where starving and they waited 1900 year for the jews to eat.

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50 years in these horrid camps while their stinkin' filthy rich brothers looked on and did nothing to alleviate their immense pain.

<span id='postcolor'>

And why is that. The only reason is that most of those countrys have dictatorship wich is supported by US. They don't care

about anybody else then themselfs and the thrones.  

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but realizing you are probably media-conditioned europeans, barely out of dictatorship yourself,

I take you with a grain of salt in your stand against the jews. deep down in your heart you're better than that.

<span id='postcolor'>

Isen't that typical evry time you mention a word wich is not in the best view of Israel then you are Anti Semitic.

It's used almost like a weapon against the Europeans to give a green light for Israel to make what ever they whant.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Aug. 26 2002,21:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">my home is guarded by a SW .44 mag. I felled little trees with it.<span id='postcolor'>

In self-defence, right?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Aug. 26 2002,21:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">when will you be satisfied? when the last jew surrenders and jumps into the sea?

no I wasn't there in 1900. but I quoted somebody who was actually at the scene then, (the scorned mr twain). who do you have as a witness?<span id='postcolor'>

This FAQ on the Palestine/Israel quotes over 100 sources that contradict just about everything you've said.  ...And it was compiled by an American organisation called Jews for Justice in the Middle East.

P.S.  Sure would be boring if we all just agreed with one another.  

[ran 0]

edit : really ugly post from me , i'm sincerly sorry

[ran 0]

Grandpa attacks lol

[Sam Samson 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Posted: Aug. 26 2002,23:18

Last time i cheked what racism was it wasen't appointed to a ceartyn color or race or religion.

You don't have to be white to be a racist.

Any arab or a moslem who will here those words will think that you are a racist:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

can never be surrendered again to infidels.

<span id='postcolor'>

<span id='postcolor'>

BOGO! READ MY POST!

that's not my opinion expressed in that quote but the one the arabs have about israel!

let me spell it out for yer: the islamic faith partitions the world into dar-el-harb (house of war: all lands that are not islamic yet) and dar-el-islam (the islamic house of peace)!

islam says: a formerly moslem country can never be surrendered to infidels (people NOT of the islamic persuasion).

(just go ask the imam at your local mosque.)

the moslems want israel back for religious reasons, no matter what about the palestinians. even if there weren't any palestinians they would never make peace with israel (except for employing tikwa (the advantageous lie).)

and don't ignore the balfour declaration.

(my goodness.)

what I'm doing is propositioning a radical answer to a tremendously complex problem. nothing ideal, but it worked in the past for others.

fact is: arabs have somewhere else to go, jews don't.

show a little mercy for the race, will you.

also: I'm decidedly not in love with mr sharon, a noisy backbencher for most of his political career. now he gives it his shot. well.

but I outright despise yassir (no sir) arafat, that arch-terrorist. remember the olympics of '72 munic, germany?

remember the italian cruise ship achille lauro?

remember the airline hijackings? mogadishu '77?

...

he just doesn't cut it at all. too many slaughtered innocents, too much blood on the man's hands.

as long as well-meaning folks like you and yer sympathetic government are patting his back, this fellow will keep playing his cynical game. he'll play the europeans against the us, jordan against syria, egypt against the saudis, everybody against israel, etc.

the only language this man understands is overbearing, brute force. and sharon knows it.

decidedly not pretty. God in heaven, I agree.

and no. I don't accept blame for the us because it has to make-do with strange, uncalculable fellows in centcom's area. I'm sure the president would rather deal with jeffersonian democrats the world over. but they just aren't there.

I'm sure there are very many points on which we agree in this. just get over your self-righteousness. be pragmatic. the world isn't perfect. there will be no morally impeccable solution, like you would like to have. my perfectionist europals.

if you know a perfect solution to the dilemma, let me know it. I will call george right away!

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

mais ca va au chalet ou bien?  

I must say that Sam has very much refined his views to a very narrow way of seeing things!

I just wonder whether you use this board to convince others or just to get rid of some steam and grieve? The path you are taking is very dangerous! Let me just tell you why:

just a short example of cross-refernce:

-----------------------------------------

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"arabs have somewhere else to go, jews don't."<span id='postcolor'>

If I would have told other people that the following quote was made in Germany back in 1941 I guess noone would have been in doubt!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"jews can live somewhere else but this is german motherland"<span id='postcolor'>(noone said this here, dont wonder! )

You are crossing a very dangerous border where a step back gets harder than two steps forward!

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ Aug. 27 2002,00:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">mais ca va au chalet ou bien?  

I must say that Sam has very much refined his views to a very narrow way of seeing things!

I just wonder whether you use this board to convince others or just to get rid of some steam and grieve? The path you are taking is very dangerous! Let me just tell you why:

just a short example of cross-refernce:

-----------------------------------------

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"arabs have somewhere else to go, jews don't."<span id='postcolor'>

If I would have told other people that the following quote was made in Germany back in 1941 I guess noone would have been in doubt!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"jews can live somewhere else but this is german motherland"<span id='postcolor'>(noone said this here, dont wonder! )

You are crossing a very dangerous border where a step back gets harder than two steps forward!<span id='postcolor'>

agreed .... you're way better at forum posting than me

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

but on a battlefield I would shit in my pants while you would do what has to be done!  

[KingBeast 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ Aug. 26 2002,23:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but on a battlefield I would shit in my pants while you would do what has to be done!  <span id='postcolor'>

You mean Run? Sorry ran, im kidding you old frog. The french were very mighty back in the day.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Aug. 27 2002,00:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and don't ignore the balfour declaration.

(my goodness.)<span id='postcolor'>

And don't ignore what Lord Balfour said 2 years later...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The contradiction between the letter of the Covenant (the Anglo-French Declaration of 1918 promising the Arabs of former Ottoman colonies that as a reward for supporting the Allies they could have their independence) is even more flagrant in the case of the independent nation of Palestine than in that of the independent nation of Syria. For in Palestine we do not propose to even to go through the form of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants of the country… The four great powers are committed to Zionism and Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-long tradition, in present needs, in future hopes, of far profounder import than the desire and prejudices of the 700, 000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land.  -- Lord Balfour, 1919<span id='postcolor'>

(my goodness)

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Aug. 27 2002,00:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">what I'm doing is propositioning a radical answer to a tremendously complex problem. nothing ideal, but it worked in the past for others.

fact is: arabs have somewhere else to go, jews don't.<span id='postcolor'>

If you're suggesting forced deportation then why not just say so?  Why beat about the bush?  You sure you're American?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Aug. 27 2002,00:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">show a little mercy for the race, will you.<span id='postcolor'>

Discrimination based on race?  There's a word for that.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Aug. 27 2002,00:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">be pragmatic. the world isn't perfect. there will be no morally impeccable solution, like you would like to have. my perfectionist europals.<span id='postcolor'>

Read this article by a true Jeffersonian if you care about the US as much as I do.