Mid east

[bogo 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">same offer as barak. Eastern Jerusalem neighborhoods under PA control. the old city stay ours. Temple mount stays under the "wakf".

if you are asking about the settlement, take a look on the map offered in Camp-David.

<span id='postcolor'>

WAKF ?

Well the deal was only 90% of the land

[scout 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WAKF ?

<span id='postcolor'>

an islamic-palestinian organizatio that effectivly controls the temple mount since 1967. actually maintaining an autonomous area of control. they pretty much decide what happens there.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well the deal was only 90% of the land<span id='postcolor'>

and compensating with another 5% in other areas.

but yes.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ Aug. 07 2002,19:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">not we decided to fight in 1948 they did! and they lost!<span id='postcolor'>

Wrong!

Many of those who eventually became refugees started to fight back in the 1920's, when hundreds of thousands of immigrants started settling in their country without their permission.

By the way, the settlement of Deir Yassin was one that had a valid and published peace agreement in 1948, however that did not save its villagers from being massacred.  Please don't try to tell the survivors, or any other Palestinians forced to flee, that you did not decide to fight in 1948.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ Aug. 07 2002,19:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> i wont take the responsebility to the actions of agrresors! you are day dreaming! <span id='postcolor'>

Of course by 1948, those unwelcome settlers were preparing to take half of the land they'd invaded to create an entirely new country without consulting with the native population.

Pardon me... who did you say was the aggressor?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ Aug. 07 2002,19:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and Jerusalem was Israeli PRIOR '67. it was split to half. the Kenneset resided in Jerusalem PRIOR '67. get your fact for real! <span id='postcolor'>

Why was Jerusalem not the capital before 1950?  Why do most countries still refuse to move their embassies from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem?

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ Aug. 07 2002)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well the deal was only 90% of the land<span id='postcolor'>

and compensating with another 5% in other areas.<span id='postcolor'>

LOL...  Including a strip of desert next to the Gaza strip where Israel currently dumps its toxic waste.

(Bernadotte pulls out his calculator)

Taking 5% away from what the Palestinians have today would only add 1% more of the total to Israel.  Do you mean to say that Israel was willing to accept borders that would give it 79% of the original land but not 78%?  How many people will end up dying because of that 1%?  And how many of those "insignificant" settlements of yours where built on that 1%?

[scout 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Pardon me... who did you say was the aggressor?

<span id='postcolor'>

thats for free:

in 29/11/1947 the UN decided on a partition plan: two countries for two people.

the Arabs and Palestinians declared thats un acceptable. the "Yeshuv" agreed.

since that day, there was a "de-facto" war in Israel, where israeli villages were attacked and sieged BY PALESTINIAN MILITIA! this war went on until the Brits left. and then 5 more states jopined the fray. they lost. period.

THEY decided to fight, THEY lost.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Please don't try to tell the survivors, or any other Palestinians forced to flee, that you did not decide to fight in 1948.

<span id='postcolor'>

i understand that in your opinion we should have sat and waited them to slaughter us like they did in Gush-Etzion?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Of course by 1948, those unwelcome settlers were preparing to take half of the land they'd invaded to create an entirely new country without consulting with the native population.<span id='postcolor'> which most of it came with the first waves of jews from russia in the late 19th century. are we begining again?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Many of those who eventually became refugees started to fight back in the 1920's, when hundreds of thousands of immigrants started settling in their country without their permission<span id='postcolor'>

every piece of land was paid for. fair and square.

tell me, if we tried to throw away the palestinian population why did they stay in Jaffa, Haifa, Akko, Um-el-Phahem, Taibe, Baka-el-Garbia and many more villages, and not fled from the "massacaring" army?

why didnt they flee in '67?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why was Jerusalem not the capital before 1950?<span id='postcolor'>

very smart move, to move your whole parlimant to a mortar shell range, before knowing the situation is stable. did the russians remain in moscow when the germans approached?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Why do most countries still refuse to move their embassies from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem?<span id='postcolor'>

until '67 it was matter of safety, most countries feared the ongoing clashes between the IDF and the Jordanian army.

most consulates in eastern jerusalem were built far from the front line.

after '67 it became matter of politics.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> LOL... Including a strip of desert next to the Gaza strip where Israel currently dumps its toxic waste.

<span id='postcolor'>

Ramat Hovav is even close to the gaza strip. the area offered is actually consists of fields owned by villages.

so much for your ability to read maps.............

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ Aug. 07 2002,22:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> thats for free:

in 29/11/1947 the UN decided on a partition plan: two countries for two people.  the Arabs and Palestinians declared thats un acceptable. the "Yeshuv" agreed.  since that day, there was a "de-facto" war in Israel, where israeli villages were attacked and sieged BY PALESTINIAN MILITIA! this war went on until the Brits left. and then 5 more states jopined the fray. they lost. period. THEY decided to fight, THEY lost.<span id='postcolor'>

So all anyone needs to do is:

- get a few million people to move to Israel without becoming citizens

- declare a plan to make a new country on half of your land

- fight back if you and your friends get hostile to the plan

- win the fight

Is this method of starting a new country legally or morally ethical to you?  I guess so.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ Aug. 07 2002,22:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Please don't try to tell the survivors, or any other Palestinians forced to flee, that you did not decide to fight in 1948.

<span id='postcolor'>

i understand that in your opinion we should have sat and waited them to slaughter us like they did in Gush-Etzion?<span id='postcolor'>

Three comments:

1.  Attempting to justify a massacre of innocent people is very disgusting.

2.  When you wrote them and they you meant Arabs, as if the ones you massacred in Deir Yassin were no different from the ones who attacked Gush Etzion.  Your disgusting justification is also very racist.

3.  Check your dates!  The Gush Etzion massacre was a cruel reprisal for Deir Yassin.  It happened a month later than Deir Yassin.  In other words, Deir Yassin was not a response to Gush Etzion as you suggest.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ Aug. 07 2002,22:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Of course by 1948, those unwelcome settlers were preparing to take half of the land they'd invaded to create an entirely new country without consulting with the native population.<span id='postcolor'> which most of it came with the first waves of jews from russia in the late 19th century. are we begining again?<span id='postcolor'>

In 1947, there were 600,000 Jews and 1,300,000 Arabs in Palestine.  Over 300,000 Jews arrived 1922 - 36.  In other words, most did not come in the late 19th century.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ Aug. 07 2002,22:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">tell me, if we tried to throw away the palestinian population why did they stay in Jaffa, Haifa, Akko, Um-el-Phahem, Taibe, Baka-el-Garbia and many more villages, and not fled from the "massacaring" army?<span id='postcolor'>

Let's face it, Jerusalem was not yours.  According to the partition plan, it was to be international.  You needed to ethnically cleanse the territory between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.  That's exactly were little Deir Yassin stood.

The Irgun commander at Deir Yassin, Mordehai Raanan, reported that he counted 254 dead.  Later he admitted exaggerating the number to scare away the Arabs.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ Aug. 07 2002,22:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">why didnt they flee in '67?<span id='postcolor'>By then they'd learned that that's exactly what you wanted them to do in '48.

[IceFire 0]

My god!

Why is this damn thread still here?? Why is it a sticky??

[Snoopy 0]

yea, why is it a sticky?

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IceFire @ Aug. 08 2002,01:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My god!

Why is this damn thread still here??   Why is it a sticky??<span id='postcolor'>

Because it is a continuing matter worthy of debate. If you don't want to debate in it then don't post.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IceFire @ Aug. 08 2002,01:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My god!  Why is this damn thread still here??   Why is it a sticky??<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Snoopy @ Aug. 08 2002,02:O4)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">yea, why is it a sticky?<span id='postcolor'>

Just curious... Are you guys from the States??  

[Snoopy 0]

lol, my post wasnt meant to be offensive, but just asking why?

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Snoopy @ Aug. 11 2002,00:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">lol, my post wasnt meant to be offensive, but just asking why?<span id='postcolor'>

Because it is such a long running and frequently debated topic that it is better to have one thread than hundreds, many repeating themselves.

[Snoopy 0]

sorry then

[M_S_Holder 0]

Is anyone in these forums Jewish?

If so, can you tell me whether any of these quotes from the Talmud is accurate?

"The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts."

Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b

"The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture teaches to honor the the dog more than the non-Jew."

Ereget Raschi Erod. 22 30

"Even though God created the non-Jew they are still animals in human form. It is not becoming for a Jew to be served by an animal. Therfore he will be served by animals in human form."

Midrasch Talpioth, p. 255, Warsaw 1855

"A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a pregnant animal."

Coschen hamischpat 405

"The souls of non-Jews come from impure sprits and are called pigs."

Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b

"Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew like a monkey to a human."

Schene luchoth haberith, p. 250 b

"If you eat with a Gentile, it is the same as eating with a dog."

Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b

"If a Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should not express sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will replace 'your loss', just as if one of his oxen or asses had died"."

Jore dea 377, 1

"Sexual intercourse between Gentiles is like intercourse between animals."

Talmud Sanhedrin 74b

"It is permitted to take the body and the life of a Gentile."

Sepher ikkarim III c 25

"It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah."

Coschen hamischpat 425 Hagah 425. 5

"A heretic Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands."

Talmud, Abodah Zara, 4b

"Every Jew, who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God."

Talmud: Bammidber raba c 21 & Jalkut 772

Very disturbing; the Talmud is a very important book to the Jews.

[M_S_Holder 0]

A very distubing quote:

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that..I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about America's pressure on Area. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." -Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3,2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio. '

[McH 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that..I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about America's pressure on Area. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." <span id='postcolor'>

Ok, i want a link for this one, until than, i dont belive...

[M_S_Holder 0]

http://standardnewspapers.com/News....&sID=13

Don't expect the major media to touch it w/a ten foot pole.

[M_S_Holder 0]

HENRY FORD in (The Dearborn Independent, 12-19 February 1921: "Jews have always controlled the business... The motion picture influence of the United States and Canada...is exclusively under the control, moral and financial, of the Jewish manipulators of the public mind."

It seems not much has changed since 1921 . . .

[Guest]

Racism including anti semitism will not be tolerated on these forums. M_S_Holder, you were warned once before and got a second chance. You have used that up. Say goodbye to these forums, because you are not welcome back.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Aug. 13 2002,01:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Racism including anti semitism will not be tolerated on these forums. M_S_Holder, you were warned once before and got a second chance. You have used that up. Say goodbye to these forums, because you are not welcome back.<span id='postcolor'>

I am totally against racism of every hue, but if Ariel Sharon actually said that, then surely he can point it out? Did he actually say it?

[theavonlady 2]

Yes, still on vacation here but getting hate mail in my private inbox from a white Dutch forum member, who wants the Israeli flag removed from my sig. Maybe I should add another one there.

Ho hum. Hello to everyone else. I'll be back home in Israel later this week. Till then, adios amigos!

[Col. Kurtz 0]

Theres an old saying, dont let the bastards wear you down. Your Israli, so i thinbk that gives you the right to fly the flag.

What would be the best solution to the current 'war' would be if both sides agreed to disagree on some issues, Palestine had their own state and the Isralis would hold their army back, and the Palestinians would stop suicide bombings. If this was too hard, a 'no mans land' could be formed that would be occupied by a MULTI NATIONAL force under the control of the UN to make sure both sides kept to their respective sides.

[Desert Eagle 0]

What anti-semitian did M_S_Holder say?

[McH 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What anti-semitian did M_S_Holder say?<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">HENRY FORD in (The Dearborn Independent, 12-19 February 1921: "Jews have always controlled the business... The motion picture influence of the United States and Canada...is exclusively under the control, moral and financial, of the Jewish manipulators of the public mind."

It seems not much has changed since 1921 . . .<span id='postcolor'>

[Paratrooper 0]

I am really amazed that we get this sort of thing in here, this is such I diverse place, It has made me realise hoe small the world is. How on earth can you take offence at someone flying their national flag? I wouldn't change my sig for anyone! (unless I wanted to obviously ).