weapon fans of the UK

[derk yall 0]

Shotguns are unpractical in many situations, mostly that it spread the bullet all around the room, but UK law is UK law.

Yes there is a minimum of thief who have a weapon on him when he broke into your property. But still he can be a krav maga master or he could have a knife on him, or even take a vase with flovers and broke your head with it. The problems is that you can never know what to expect from the attacker.

Also I dont think that a shotgun is the best weapon for hidden wearring. It's only usefull when there is a criminel in your house and you know about him, but if you go in night in the streets and a gang appear and surround you, the length of the shotgun will make you less flexible for counter-atack reacting.

[dr_chris 10]

haha

guns bring no harm to another human unless held by an idiot.

i used to compete against the trigger happy posse (armed police) in police pistol contests at the local gun club many years ago. some cant shoot for toffee and tbh the way some of those guys regard guns i personally wouldn't trust them with a spud gun!

but that was a long time ago things have probably changed, even still back then it was good to mingle with the armed section of the law. some good stories went on in the lounge area, we had a good laugh :)

And there lies the problem. There are FAR too many idiots about. Criminals haven't always been caught breaking the law, either, so whilst you could argue "noone with a criminal record could own one", if they've not been caught yet they would still be able to purchase a firearm legit.

Basically it's a ridiculous idea to allow people free access to pistols or automatic weapons in this country, and this is coming from someone who loves shooting.

Let us not forget what firearms were created for; to kill people. A job at which they are very effective.

Edited December 24, 2009 by Dr_Chris
Edit

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

The problem with defending yourself with a gun in the UK (even if you do have a licence) is that under UK law the moment you resort to weapons you are a criminal in the eyes of the police and law. You would have to prove that your life was threatened and you had no chance but to resort to a weapon.

Even then you have F'all chance of explaining why you had a loaded shotgun to defend yourself when its supposed to be locked up safely and how you had the time to get it load it and use it... Tony Martin can tell you all about that.

Besides...Guns Dogs dont Kill People Rabbits do!

[Baff1 0]

Anyway if firearms were legal and your father had one, the odds are the would be robber would have one too. So in the end your father doesn't have that advantage at all. There is no ideal solution to this but I don't think the answer is to arm the masses either.

Firearms are legal here and my father does have one.

So does that really mean the odds are that any robber has one too?

Who knows.

But a robber without a gun is still a lethal or life crippling physical danger to an OAP, even without a gun.

That there are guns in the house, to my mind serves as an extra incentive to react forcefully to intrusion. Gun ownership is a responsability. The idea of some skag loving teens smashing open the gun cabinets really raises the stakes. If they didn't have guns when they came in, left to their own devices they may well have when they leave.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that gun ownership gives my dad the advantage. He is after all 85 years old.

(The chances of him even hearing a burglar if he was using a road drill in the living room are slim).

It does however go a long way to redressing his disadvantage and certainly the security of having one readily available to him goes a long way to making him feel more secure.

Any intruder in your house has the advantage. They are expecting you, you are not expecting them. They have come looking for trouble and you are relaxing.

To me it makes no difference. My concern is not how well armed robbers are, but how well armed I am.

Of all the dangers and pitfalls associated with gun ownership, it's affect on robbers is the least of my worries.

Lets face the facts, in countries with high personal gun ownership and the rights to use them on robbers in your house, there quite simply aren't many robbers. It's been a very effective solution.

The dangers with gun ownership is not what happens when an intruder is confronted, (that is one of the benefits), it is what happens when a husband or wife loses their temper, or what happens when a child gets their mischievous little hands on it or takes it to school.

My main priority is not that the masses are armed, but that those I love are. And being honest about it, if they were not legally allowed to own guns, I would seriously have to consider them illegally owning some.

The last time a gang of pikeys ram raided my family home (in broad daylight), the police took 7 hours to respond to the 999 call. They come every year, not just to my house, but to many in the surrounding villages. My mum's (elderly) friend hid in a box in her garage for 20 hours, terrified that they would discover her she was too afraid to leave, she spent the night there. And this is a nice neighbourhood!

With respect to Tony Martin, while I certainly have every sympathy with the man not to mention some small amount of personal empathy for the circumstances in which he found himself, I have had friends who have shot intruders and not gone to prison (or even court). Not in the remote country either, but in the centre of Cambridge.

Thats said, I have almost zero faith in our legal system in this regard. If it was me, they would just look up my comments in posts like this and then lock me away forever.

I also notice that he had removed the magasine disabling in his automatic shotguns, giving him the extra shots and also making them illegal.

I think it pays to follow the letter of the law in case things ever did go that totally tits up for you. I recently bought myself an automatic shotgun. £380 Hatsan.

A Turkish gun. (It may be cheap but it's £300 more expensive than any other gun I've owned!). I'm rather pleased with it.

I'll be intrested to see if they check it during my inspection in the new year.

Personally I have yet to experience the need for more than 3 shots. (Although I have once needed all three). In my experience by the third shot the rabbit is either dead or it has vacated the area.

This is my next purchase I am planning as soon as I can face handing over the wonga.

A ten shot semi auto air rifle. I've got it priced in for £700 all in with sights, barrel lamp, air pump and a spare magasine. I'm kind of hoping they will introduce a longer barreled version of the 10 shot repeater however so no real rush.

I'm also toying with the idea of upgrading my holosight to one of these.

@£200 it's an expensive replacement for the £50 "airsoft" one I use currently but it would save a lot of grief aligning it. Plus it has Spetsnaz appeal! Maybe when I win the lottery next...

Edited December 24, 2009 by Baff1

[bascule42 10]

I have had friends who have shot intruders and not gone to prison

What? More than one friend who shot more than one intruder? My God. Talk about a wild bunch. :p

Here in this crime infested rat hole of a "city", (that's a good one), a baseball bat serves those who feel the need for extra security. (Really, baseball bats are among the most common purchases from the local sports shop, yet there is no baseball played here).

I see what people say about feeling protected from criminals, but I simply don't trust my fellow Brits enough. I mean, look at the damage we do on election days. That's just with a cheapo pen. When the Daily Sun go's out of business for lack of readers, when Jeremy Kyles popularity dwindles, when Big Brother is buried next to the xfactor & "strictly", when a quiet pint on a friday is possible once more, and of course, (my favorite), when they sell carrots for snowmans noses in hell, then I'll change my opinion on legalising guns in this country. As it stands, we are a nation of dickheads by and large, sorry, but you know I'm right - or at least not far wrong, and guns are the bloody last thing we need.

EDIT: Just gone back a page or two...."chavs and pikeys"?! rofl...see the above.

Edited December 24, 2009 by Bascule42

[Baff1 0]

You got me there, one friend who shot one intruder. (After he had left and was running away down a street in a shopping arcade).

He reported it to the police and told them to look out for a guy with shotgun pellets in his back turning himself in at any hospital. (Which sure enough the villian later did).

My other example is my mate Karen who shot her husbands balls off with his shotgun. She got away with it too.

I'm dying to know what she told the judge...."I was just cleaning his guns and he happend to come back and place his bollocks in front of the end of the barrel just as it misfired!". Got to love village gossip.

Actually I see this as a good example of why guns should not be readily available. The high porportion of American gun crime by example, is domestic incidents of this ilk.

Yeah baseball bats. As my sister and that guy in the news this week can acredit, cricket bats break if you hit someone around the head with them hard enough and often enough.

Tiger Wood's wife used a golf club! I wonder how that held up to the abuse.

Edited December 24, 2009 by Baff1

[trickster1982 10]

If people really want to have a firearm in this country they can apply for a shotgun licence, presuming if said person has a clean record. If not then tough shit. Thats more than enough if they wish to defend themselves.

.

And you still couldnt defend your property with it anyway, legal issues with shooting at burglars aside, your shotgun would be kept in a double locked secure cabinet & said thief isnt going to wait around while you dig out the keys & fumble around unlocking it all.

Going back probably to the early 90's another farmer round here who was getting a lot of break ins was actually unofficially advised by the local rural plod to take the lead shot out of some cartridges & fill them with salt to fire at the intruders as like a deterrent, but I bet you wouldnt even get away with that now!

[joey_45 0]

It take min 6 months for the police [special sqd/flying sqd] to say yay or nay at the cost of 50 quid [non refundable of course] and you need a very, very, VERY! good reason to want to own a Firearm leagely......

[Baff1 0]

My lisence renewal said it would take them upto 6 weeks to process here in Cambridge.

You need to give reason for a rifle. And then reason again for any second rifle. For example rabbits a 22 and Foxes for a 204 and deer for a 303. You are only allowed to own one rifle for each task.

You are also only allowed to keep a limited stock fo Ammunition. Say 300 rounds for example. Hollow points only if you use your rifle for hunting, not if you keep it at a range.

For a shotgun you don't need to provide a reason at all.

(Although they will still ask when they come to visit).

Mainly as long as you have the land access, (or club membership) and not too serious a criminal record, you will get your lisence.

I've never heard of anyone being refused.

The firearms inspectors here are part of the Cambridgeshire Constabulary Firearms and Explosives Department. They aren't actually police officers but civil servants. I applied for the job once myself.

Shotguns don't have to be kept in a locked cabinet, but they certainly nag you a lot if you don't. In the end I caved in and bought one.

Typically I use mine 3 or 4 times a day. It isn't in it's cabinet currently, it's right here next to me... where it needs to be. Vermin doesn't wait for you to go and unlock it either.

There is in my opinion, a common sense gap between how the police wish you to store your guns and how they are actually useful.

That said, with kids about, I don't think it would be too stupid to keep them locked up and the key actually on your keyring rather than safely hidden as recommended. Certainly when I was child nothing could be safely hidden from me.

I thought about getting the kit to load my own cartridges, but on closer inspection it's far more expensive to do that than it is to buy them premade.

Edited December 25, 2009 by Baff1

[trickster1982 10]

Shotguns don't have to be kept in a locked cabinet, but they certainly nag you a lot if you don't. In the end I caved in and bought one.

You sure on that one chief? Plod comes out here once or twice a year to make sure my dads shotguns & cartridges are locked away in a secure cabinet & the cabinet by law has to be securely bolted to an outside wall. (on the inside of the house obviously) Ive heard of people losing their shotgun licenses over not keeping them securely stored

[joey_45 0]

My lisence renewal said it would take them upto 6 weeks to process here in Cambridge.

Renewal yes, but first time it's 6 months........ ish.

I'm gonna apply next year for one now I have a job, and being ex forces it 'SHOULDN'T BE too difficult.

[bascule42 10]

You sure on that one chief? Plod comes out here once or twice a year to make sure my dads shotguns & cartridges are locked away in a secure cabinet & the cabinet by law has to be securely bolted to an outside wall. (on the inside of the house obviously) Ive heard of people losing their shotgun licenses over not keeping them securely stored

Yes. My old man has owned shotguns for about 17 or 18 years and this is spot on. It is a legal requirement to have your guns and cartridges securely stored.

[joey_45 0]

unloaded and stored sepretaly.

then that way no accidents should happen.

[Baff1 0]

You sure on that one chief? Plod comes out here once or twice a year to make sure my dads shotguns & cartridges are locked away in a secure cabinet & the cabinet by law has to be securely bolted to an outside wall. (on the inside of the house obviously) Ive heard of people losing their shotgun licenses over not keeping them securely stored

I get inspected once every 5 years.

Every time I renew my lisence.

If you are getting inspected once or twice a year you might be on a watch list or something. (Or as is more likely if you are like me, it just feels like they come every year). The only time I have ever had the police come round to inspect my guns was after a neighbour complained when I was 15.

(He'd told the police I had been shooting at his grandchildren. Given that his house is way way beyond the range of a shotgun however I don't think they took him very seriously, but this does give you some idea about the level of public confidence. I get scared of people who walk their dogs. All you need is one animal rights type crank to set the police on you. Gun culture in this country leaves me unable to take my lisence for granted).

They stuck a little yellow sticker on my lisence saying "keep firearms secure" or some such a few years ago. After they did it a couple of times I bought a cabinet. I took this to be a recommendation not a legal requirement. They have approved my lisence without one and renewed it a further 3 times after that without me owning one.

Ammunition for rifles, has to be stored in another seperately secured cabinet. Or you can get one of those ones with two seperately lockable compartments. The rules for rifles are tougher than the rules for shotguns.

I've held a certificate since I was 14 years old.

For 20 out of the 25 years I've owned a shotgun I've kept it in a locked in the cellar and I've never had any complaints from the inspector. It was only when I started buying more guns about ten years ago that I got the "store securely" stickers on my lisence.

I have a cabinet now of course, (and I no longer get those stickers) but if I intend to buy a 22 rifle I will need to upgrade it to one with an ammo box or just buy a ammo cabinet.

More expense.

That's along term project for me, there are other things I'd like to buy more such as a new computer and an air rifle etc.

It's a lot of money to shell out for something I would only likely use for 5 or 6 days of the year.

I'd like the extension to my range it would bring...just another lottery fantasy I expect.

---------- Post added at 01:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 AM ----------

Renewal yes, but first time it's 6 months........ ish.

8 weeks according to the London Met webpage. 6 weeks according to the letter the sent me recently by my Cambridge office.

Renewal or first time..it's the same.

Clearly this will vary from region to region.

Edited December 26, 2009 by Baff1

[joey_45 0]

I live in London... Might of read it wrong.

[trickster1982 10]

I get inspected once every 5 years.

Every time I renew my lisence.

If you are getting inspected once or twice a year you might be on a watch list or something. (Or as is more likely if you are like me, it just feels like they come every year)

Yeah, Im not sure on that, we've never had any incidents & none of my family have criminal records, it may just be the way the regional plod likes to do things,maybe varies in different counties. He also has a firearms license for a semi-auto .22 rifle which I suppose is what they are more bothered about. He has a Savage model pump action shotgun too, I remember going shooting with him when I was a kid & this thing held about 10 shells, but after Hungerford the rules changed & he had to have the chamber reduced to 3 shells (including the one in the spout)

[Colt45_GTO 10]

Yeah, Im not sure on that, we've never had any incidents & none of my family have criminal records, it may just be the way the regional plod likes to do things,maybe varies in different counties. He also has a firearms license for a semi-auto .22 rifle which I suppose is what they are more bothered about. He has a Savage model pump action shotgun too, I remember going shooting with him when I was a kid & this thing held about 10 shells, but after Hungerford the rules changed & he had to have the chamber reduced to 3 shells (including the one in the spout)

my best mate has i think a section 5 fire arms cert. he has a number of full bore and small bore rifles ranging from 17 HMR to 7.62 with a total of 5 rifles and 2 shotguns, he earned his open ticket meaning he is leagal to hop on any field given he has written permission of the land owner.

he gets inspected once every 5 years on renewal and lives in an urban area.