No dedicated server on MW2 as well...

[call_911 10]

My jaw dropped when I heard this. This means that the clan I'm in will be gone, because they are insanely sick of CoD4 and WaW, and not to mention all the other clans,

mod makers and map makers which will be gone, and server providers who get most of their income on Call of Duty games. Just think how ArmA would be if you couldn't

mod it or play on dedicated servers, that would just ruin the whole concept. It's ridiculous.

But I will hold my breath until a second confirmation arrives (hopefully monday), because this is just too insane to be true. I really hope he misunderstud, misinformed or

had a different definition on 'dedicated server' for that question.

Amen just imagine if they did the same to BF series though unconfirmed sounds like a real good way ti kill clans. Been a COD fan since #1 an this is going to hurt sales immensly! Though DR was never a series planned game for me to play alot seeing no dedi secured the reason why I shelved it. Sad sad day for pc gamers world wide if this in fact happends!

[maddogx 13]

I think the no-disk/download-only rumors are a simple misunderstanding about the fact the game uses Steam. Just like FEAR2, or any other game that uses Steam for copy-protection, you can still go out and buy the game on disk, but activation and subsequent playing will require Steam.

IW would be the epitome of stupid if they forced people to download 15GB before they could play. Not including dedicated servers is a real dick-twist, but having no disk in the retail version would be downright insane. Imagine the people living in rural areas with crappy 384kbit internet (if they're lucky), going out to buy a new game, then finding out that they have to download the whole thing.

Do you know how long it takes to download 15GB on a 384kbit line? Almost four straight days. If IW really did that, the subsequent shit storm would be at least a category five.

Edited October 26, 2009 by MadDogX

[ICE-Raver 10]

I hope everyone actually follows through and boycotts this POS.

[maddogx 13]

I hope everyone actually follows through and boycotts this POS.

I personally know at least four people (apart from myself) who have cancelled pre-orders of the game and are waiting to see what happens in the multiplayer area before they decide whether or not to buy it. We will definitely not be buying the game until we hear that either dedicated servers are coming back, or the majority of players are reporting that MP is somehow breathtakingly awesome.

[bangtail 0]

I hope everyone actually follows through and boycotts this POS.

I cancelled my pre order.

Eth

[Chaostika7-17th 10]

Originally Posted by ICE-Raver

I hope everyone actually follows through and boycotts this POS.

Originally Posted by Eth

I cancelled my pre order.

Originally Posted by MaddogX

I personally know at least four people (apart from myself) who have cancelled pre-orders of the game and are waiting to see what happens in the multiplayer area before they decide whether or not to buy it. We will definitely not be buying the game until we hear that either dedicated servers are coming back, or the majority of players are reporting that MP is somehow breathtakingly awesome.

yap, thats the only way to open their eyes when it comes to $money$ and when @ the release day, just enough people just don't buy it straight away and wait to see what happens in the following weeks, maybe then IW will realize, that they havn't got that much sales as they calculated from the pc com and will finally, eventually notice the bullsh*** the created. havn't really got the hopes they will change anything with dedis or IWNET, not cause just still alot of consolefanboys gonna buy it! i dont blame them. but anyway, uddp, doozer, t-bob and fsf gaming have cancelled their pre orders and thats 130 copies less for our part!! :cool:

here some comments about 'Coolshop state "alot" of cancellations' @ http://www.fpsadmin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18765

Hi

Coolshop.co.uk has possibly the cheapest prices for Modern Warfare 2 in the UK (£24.99) nearly £10 cheaper than elsewhere.

I decided the try and get them to hand over an answer of how many pre-orders had been cancelled since "the annoucement" - Of course as expected they told me they couldn`t offer up numbers but did say :-

"we have just had lot"

to clarify I asked "alot of cancellations?" after a big pause (probably from the online help person getting the nod from the boss) they replied "yes"

Glad to see people are sticking to their word ^^

Lets see if we, on this side of the pond, can follow the UK lead!

We need to make sure we put the pressure on in these two weeks leading up to the release. We only buy games with features we want, not what someone who has not had the decency to interact with us, wants.

The price of "MW2 German Uncut PC-Version" by Amazon Germany

Yesterday: 59,99€

Today: 43,99€ (-26%)

Local gamestop said the stores near UCF (local collage) where they are more hardcore PC customers are seeing large cancellations because of no dedicated servers <- his words not mine. Which is cool that the local stores know about the lack of dedicated servers.

Here in Australia alot of us have cancelled pre-orders and will not be buying this game at all.

lets keep fighting the good fight lads

regarding to the last quote, this is what i found about the problem in australia with mw2@ http://bashandslash.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=766&Itemid=111

MW2: A bandwidth issue in Oz

Written by jockyitch

Monday, 26 October 2009

This comment regarding the bandwidth repercussions incurred from hosting MW2, is from AUS_Charlie, a BASHandSlash reader, from Australia. He is concerned about the peer to peer hosting problem IW.net is about to unleash on MW2 players. Australians generally have tightly capped internet connections. This will make game-hosting a risky business as you can very easily, it seems, run up against this cap:

There has been a lot of talk on one of our biggest forums www.whirlpool.net.au about how Australian gamers will actually suffer even more from IWNET, when IW's response to our outcry was "...we are trying to make it easier for gamers". Many people over here have pointed out that if a peer to peer (p2p) system is implemented only one ISP has the right data plan for consumers to host and play MW2.

We only have one well known ISP in Australia that does not count uploads.

When we were using dedi servers this wasn't a problem. All the ISP's in Australia could have a dedi server set up in their data centres and we could play 24/7 if we liked and no downloads or uploads were counted from our monthly allowance. When this IWNET system is implemented, it was concluded that if you have a 1mbps upload speed you will be chosen more to host and that you might be able to host around 16/20 players.

Even If each player only needs around 6 KiloBytes per second to keep a connection and play that is around 340 MB per hour the host is consuming for a 16 man game, so if you feel like playing long multi hour sessions with the average data plan in Australia around the 10-20 GB per month, you will always go over your limit unless you cut back on other things. Whereas, before when ISP's could host dedi servers you didnt have to count your MB's.

And at a price point of STILL $90 US dollars on steam it seems we are being hit from every direction.

So at least from a Australian standpoint it doesn't matter if we like IWNET or not, the bigger problem is: Can gamers even afford to play the game?

And with not a sole from IW saying anything detailed about IWNET, we are simply left to ponder whether this will work.

With Less than a month to go THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE.

Regards

AUS_Charlie

Edited October 27, 2009 by Chaostika7-17th

[kklownboy 43]

hmm oh dear. http://kotaku.com/5390491/modern-warfare-2s-third-person-mode-is-no-rumor

I will wait for it to come out on the wii.....

[randir14 10]

The new Aliens vs. Predator game is also not going to have dedicated servers. What's the deal with this shit lately? Almost seems like these companies had a secret meeting to determine how they could kill off PC gaming.

[AndresCL 10]

Officially not buying the game

[kklownboy 43]

They dont make any money when players keep playing modded games for years, so its a new game every year, and or $DLC to keep it "fresh". The Middlemen/sharks ect etall, are the same guys in the film and music industry's, they all go to the same bars, schools, partys and need to keep up with each other, dont have time to play a PC game but can always get on there 12 year olds Xbox... to get "market research". Then there is the Carmack syndrome, where a Dev wants to get a Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, and finally gives into the sharks, to get that dream$, and then they loose there soul and joy of making a PCgames and have to become complete assholes to even get the down payment on there $dream.Also no real new tech comes from the big guys, because that so nerdy and not cool like hanging out in the bar with the studio tools... for them its power over substance.

Support your small devs.

[joey_45 0]

I'll buy when they patch it with a dedi server.

[bangtail 0]

They dont make any money when players keep playing modded games for years, so its a new game every year, and or $DLC to keep it "fresh". The Middlemen/sharks ect etall, are the same guys in the film and music industry's, they all go to the same bars, schools, partys and need to keep up with each other, dont have time to play a PC game but can always get on there 12 year olds Xbox... to get "market research". Then there is the Carmack syndrome, where a Dev wants to get a Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, and finally gives into the sharks, to get that dream$, and then they loose there soul and joy of making a PCgames and have to become complete assholes to even get the down payment on there $dream.Also no real new tech comes from the big guys, because that so nerdy and not cool like hanging out in the bar with the studio tools... for them its power over substance.

Support your small devs.

QFT.

No two ways about it and the reason why I will ALWAYS support BI as long as they don't "lose the faith".

Eth

---------- Post added at 03:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:01 AM ----------

The new Aliens vs. Predator game is also not going to have dedicated servers. What's the deal with this shit lately? Almost seems like these companies had a secret meeting to determine how they could kill off PC gaming.

Looks nice graphically but if it even comes CLOSE to matching the claustrophobia and fear that playing the Marine did in the original AvP, I'll be impressed.

Eth

[jigawatt 10]

I didn't pre-order it, but I sure as hell will not buy it now. I'll get it and play SP, but not putting money down on it. If I can get on MP I'll get on there just to be an a-hole. Just like what I did with OFPDR...

[ardvarkdb 104]

I understand it's 'good' business to sell more products instead of extending the life of a single product, but they've been releasing new CoD games every year by leap frogging developers. Are we going to start seeing two new CoD games every year? One from IW and another from Treyarch? Treyarch has already said they are working on CoD 7, so for IW to do this purely to increase sales doesn't make sense.

If they want to sell map packs on the PC than fine, there are ways to do that, especially if you have to register through steam to play the game. Why not just sell the map packs on steam like every other game? I think IW's success with CoD 4 went to their heads a bit and they suddenly think they are game developer gods. Who knows the reasoning behind their decisions, but it definitely didn't seem like a good one.

I did like their pathetic excuse for why they removed dedicated servers (it was hard to find a good server). I'd rather not be on a server full of people who can't figure out how to use a server browser. I guess IW thinks it will be more fun to always be on servers with strangers, have rollercoaster ping and constant "host migration". It'll really help all those people who don't know how to click an item in a list though. How randomly matching people (based on SKILL as they put it, which they have yet to define how they calculate this) with other players is going to alleviate the problem of "servers full of jerks" is beyond me, because in my experience I have the least amount of fun when you play with a bunch of random people I will never see again. At least with dedicated servers you get the "usual crowd" on a specific server. It allows you to get to know new people and have a place to hang out and build up friendships. I canceled my pre-order b/c I don't want IW telling me who I get to play with, I'm an adult and I can find my own servers, thanks.

Edited October 29, 2009 by ardvarkdb

[Chaostika7-17th 10]

ardvarkdb wrote

I think IW's success with CoD 4 went to their heads a bit and they suddenly think they are game developer gods. Who knows the reasoning behind their decisions, but it definitely didn't seem like a good one.

i do think one of the biggest issue of that is, that grant collier isn't "there" anymore!

that pc-wolf always had a ear for the pc gamers and the com and often met with modders or guyz from the pc com in real to discuss stuff!

jockyitch @ bashandslash.com wrote

By changing the way the PC online experience works, Infinity Ward is effectively saying that some of the basic elements back in CoD4 did not succeed. Here is a great interview made just before CoD4 released by Modern Warfare's senior man at that time, Grant Collier.

He cites as huge positives:

- the fat pipe provided by dedicated servers

- the moddability of the game

- Punk Buster anti-cheat out of the box

Fast-forward to MW2 and Grant is gone, as are the community's servers, the moddability is probably gone too and of course Valve's anti-cheat system (VAC) has replaced PB. Listen carefully, the ironies in this video are superb.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMfTR8PBrsE&hl=de&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMfTR8PBrsE&hl=de&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

ardvarkdb wrote

How randomly matching people (based on SKILL as they put it, which they have yet to define how they calculate this) with other players is going to alleviate the problem of "servers full of jerks" is beyond me, because in my experience I have the least amount of fun when you play with a bunch of random people I will never see again. At least with dedicated servers you get the "usual crowd" on a specific server. It allows you to get to know new people and have a place to hang out and build up friendships.

well said ardvarkdb, i think thats one of the fundamental things , besides of the "fat pipes" 24/7 bandwith/availability, individual clanservers and custom content! i already quoted this once before, but it just absolutely hits the point(s), of that what u mentioned above!!

Part of the reason people play games is the social interaction, which is arguably stronger in the PC world where people invest thousands of dollars and lots of time on their equipment. Going into a server is a little bit like walking into your regular bar - you might not know everyone but the regulars are always there and the barman might even know your name. Now what I'm hearing is that this is too complex and IW want to force people to go to random bars, and thus the people they drink with, every time. How is a community or friendships meant to grow?

Edited October 29, 2009 by Chaostika7-17th

[jigawatt 10]

Great post Chaostika7-17th and the video really shows the dedication that Grant had in making COD4:MW for all platforms, especially PC. Really wish he was still there... :(

[ArchangelSKT 0]

I had half and eye open on MW2 but now of course I am not going to purchase it obviously, with such an ignorant, or full knowing capitalistically driven discontent for the PC-crowd they deserve every piece of heat they get.

They might have lost one sale on me because of that, and in addition I might also opt out from getting COD4 which I originally had on my list as games to get when I buy a new PC since my previous did not let me run it.

I am curious to the end result of this, fortunatly one might say this MW2 situation happens right after Consolemasters Dragon Rising, fortunatly cause hopefully it makes more PC players stand up and voice up against an industry which WAY to often gets away delivering noting but broken promises to their costumers. No wonder and thank god I have a more healthy habbit of reading reviews, though most importantly FORUM FEEDBACK on games now adays then before.

[bangtail 0]

Here's some more food for thought.

IW obviously saw the WICKED backlash that CM received due to their lack of a dedicated server for DR, yet they still decided not to furnish the PC community with one.

This tells me that PC gamers are becoming an afterthought with certain companies and the companies involved can be sure that they will never see a dime of my money again.

It's a small statement but these condescending, arrogant smacktards can take a flying leap.

Eth

[Pathy 0]

To simplify things a tad, in a market system you effectively 'vote' with your money - you vote on what you want produced. Even if MW2 or AvP3 are fantastic (and i've been waiting a long time for AvP3), if they do not include dedicated server support, I will be taking a conscious decision not to 'vote' by not buying the game.

It's the same reason I despair of so many people buying OFP:DR and then hating it - because whether or not you hate it, you've still effectively already 'voted' for it and all the practices it stands for. I implore all PC gamers who think in a likeminded manner to myself to at least hold off buying a product until they've done abit of research around it.

The one plus of all this is at least I guess IW have been honest in advance about the lack of dedicated servers, way in advance.

Edited October 30, 2009 by Pathy

[joey_45 0]

The one plus of all this is at least I guess IW have been honest in advance about the lack of dedicated servers, way in advance.

Maybe, just maybe, they have seen what has happened and will respond.... Or maybe jus' carry on as normal and give us PC gamers the birdie.

[Chaostika7-17th 10]

The one plus of all this is at least I guess IW have been honest in advance about the lack of dedicated servers, way in advance.

don't think 17th october, 3 weeks before a release, after a 2 years hype, is somehow, somewhere close to: way in advance, but i get your point!! what would have happened without the rumors after seeing IW guyz playing mw2 in/@ steam and without the following pressure of the com that first had to invite r.bowling 402, to get answers for their/our questions 3 weeks before the game finally hits the shelves?! imagine, no one would have noticed and rumors would not have started, would they still have told us shortly before the finishline?!? i dont want to know what would have happened, if they had released, with no one knowing of those lacks heheee

Edited October 30, 2009 by Chaostika7-17th

[bangtail 0]

don't think 17th october, 3 weeks before a release, after a 2 years hype, is somehow, somewhere close to: way in advance, but i get your point!! what would have happend without the rumors after seeing IW guyz playing mw2 in/@ steam and without the following pressure of the com that first had to invite r.bowling 402, to get answers for their/our questions 3 weeks before the game finally hits the shelves?! imagine, no one would have noticed and rumors would have started, would they still have told us shortly before the finishline?!? i dont want to know what would have happened, if they had released, with no one knowing of those lacks heheee

QFT

3 weeks is not "way in advance". Not on this planet anyway :p

[Pathy 0]

It's plenty of time to cancel your preorders and reopen your social life in advance. Sorry, i'm used to being able to plan or alter my plans at the drop of a hat, 3 weeks before release seems like an age to me (and I'm on this planet). OFP: DR on the other hand, alot of people were hit too late to cancel those preorders. Thats the difference. Big difference.

Edited October 30, 2009 by Pathy

[bangtail 0]

It's plenty of time to cancel your preorders and reopen your social life in advance. Sorry, i'm used to being able to plan or alter my plans at the drop of a hat, 3 weeks before release seems like an age to me (and I'm on this planet). OFP: DR on the other hand, alot of people were hit too late to cancel those preorders. Thats the difference. Big difference.

Sorry, when people start with that "you should get out more" shit while simultaneously posting on internet forums, I tend to ignore them.

It's IW's choice but they have pissed off a lot of PC gamers. If that was their intention, then they've succeeded admirably. Unfortunately for them, I doubt that was their intention since the suits at SmActivision are all about $$ and they don't care which demographic those $$ come from.

It looks more like damage control after the DR dedi fiasco. Funny how the announcement was made not long after the DR dedi shitstorm was going on.

Eth

Edited October 30, 2009 by BangTail

[Pathy 0]

Woah there, Captain Sensitive. Nothing was aimed at you. Chill.