PC Discussion Thread II - All PC related discussion goes here.

[celery 8]

Razer and Roccat make serious mice.

[Sertraline 10]

I would never dream of getting a mouse for pc gaming. This is what i've been using the last 8 years.

-In any 3D model application (Milkshape etc) this baby outshines the mouse in speed, precision and fast camera control.

-In any computer game, this baby...(see above)

-And last but not least: In my 8 years of HEAVY DUTY gaming and everyday usage i have never ever come close to musclepains, strains or any issues that are so common with the 'regular' mouse. If you don't believe me, think about it: You only use your thumb, the arm and shoulder rests comfortably.

From Wikipedia:

"Computer gamers have been able to successfully use trackballs in most modern computer games, including FPS, RPG, and RTS genres, with any slight loss of speed compensated for with an increase in precision. Many trackball gamers are competent at "throwing" their cursor rapidly across the screen, by spinning the trackball, enabling (with practice) much faster motion than can be achieved with a ball-less mouse and arm motion. However, many gamers are deterred by the time it takes to 'get used to' the different style of hand control that a trackball requires"

Production is however discontinued probably because of the bold lines above.

...and that's why they are worth serious money on E-bay these days.

Sad story and i know i'm gonna have to sink to a lower quality level when my trackball finally dies. Weird case of old technology wins over superior and ergonomic tech.

Edited October 19, 2009 by Sertraline

[celery 8]

"with any slight loss of speed compensated for with an increase in precision."

There's the fault. Anyone can point anywhere you want with a half-decent mouse, that's why speed is the biggest issue. In optical mice DPI in a way measures how sensitive you can set your mouse without losing pixel perfect accuracy, so a high DPI mouse is both fast and precise with little movement. A high learning curve and going against trends is no proof of trackball mice being superior.

Mice are being made for gaming for a reason, it makes a world of difference.

[Sertraline 10]

@Celery:

Read the sentence right after the one you copied, my friend.

I've had this conversation a gazillion times with non-believers. Quiet a few of them are now pro-'trackers'. You sound like i'm taking the elitist stroll, but i'm merely trying to get the message thru. It is really that good.

This is not a 'my d**k is bigger than yours thread' but you willingly jumped on that wagon. I just think it's sad and weird that the TB isn't more common.

---oh and one last thing: I get the feeling you never tried it. Guess what, i've used a 'regular mouse' at work since the early 90's and as i mentioned, the TB counterpart for 8 years in gaming at home. You think i might have gained some experience on the subject... Do ya?

"going against trends..." wth!? I´m 32 years old. Going against trends just for the sake of it is for kids...

I think the cheesy 80´s hit says it all: Don't Knock It 'til You Try It.

Until then, peace.

[Rahul 10]

Man start obtion at the top of right side.which you say i already know.

[celery 8]

@Celery:

Read the sentence right after the one you copied, my friend.

Yes, I've read it.

I've had this conversation a gazillion times with non-believers. Quiet a few of them are now pro-'trackers'. You sound like i'm taking the elitist stroll, but i'm merely trying to get the message thru. It is really that good.

This is not a 'my d**k is bigger than yours thread' but you willingly jumped on that wagon. I just think it's sad and weird that the TB isn't more common.

---oh and one last thing: I get the feeling you never tried it. Guess what, i've used a 'regular mouse' at work since the early 90's and as i mentioned, the TB counterpart for 8 years in gaming at home. You think i might have gained some experience on the subject... Do ya?

So have you used an actual optical gaming mouse in games? I've had my share of low-budget mice and they're not cut out for gaming. I can't deny personal preferences so if you and your friends like to play with a thumb ball then by all means, but it's simply not suitable for competitive gaming where both speed and precision are needed.

Just for comparison, I could praise my Razer Diamondback in the same way. It's incredibly precise, feels good in my hand and never gives any muscle strains.

Is there a video or something else that shows a team using trackballs beating another same-level team that uses gaming mice in an fps game?

[Sertraline 10]

So have you used an actual optical gaming mouse in games?

Yes. Frequently when visiting LAN shacks and what not. It does the job and i have no problem using it inspite of getting the feeling of being limited in axis of rotation and *drum roll* speed and precision.

but it's simply not suitable for competitive gaming where both speed and precision are needed.

Once again i have to ask you how you came to that universal 'truth' without giving the counterpart a good test run. And do it properly for a long period of time like i've done before and after purchasing the Optical Trackball. It's much easier having an argument if both sides actually tried both options.

Is there a video or something else that shows a team using trackballs beating another same-level team that uses gaming mice in an fps game?

:)Reminds me of another situation: I ate meat up to the age of 25 before i became a vegetarian. And whenever I accompany a friend to a diner and kindly recline any burger offers (without lecturing), i find myself in a situation where i'm forced to fight for my way of life and produce proof and what not to convince him/her of the pro's of being a veggie. Any vegetarian out there knows exactly what i'm talking about.

I'm gonna leave this right here, cos frankly i'm tired of argueing. Each to his own. You spell 'Color', i spell 'Colour'.

Edited October 19, 2009 by Sertraline

[echo1 0]

Ah, a fellow Trackball user (See pic)

I must say though that for FPSes I do prefer conventional mice. I can use the trackball if needs be though.

As for the OP, if you're on a budget, get a Logitech MX518. If you want to splash out, get a Steelseries Ikari. That is all.

Sad story and i know i'm gonna have to sink to a lower quality level when my trackball finally dies. Weird case of old technology wins over superior and ergonomic tech.

Same story with keyboards. Either way, eBay is your friend. Those MS Trackballs sell for a lot of money though. I suggest stockpiling if you see a good deal.

In optical mice DPI in a way measures how sensitive you can set your mouse without losing pixel perfect accuracy, so a high DPI mouse is both fast and precise with little movement.

There's a limit to how useful DPI is. I have a mouse that can support something like 3,200 DPI, I generally only run it about 1,000. I could probably survive on less if I turned up Windows + Game's sensitivity. Remember that a lot of serious pro gamers use the MS IntelliMouse which has a very low DPI by today's standards.

Mice are being made for gaming for a reason, it makes a world of difference.

That proves absolutely nothing. Just because something is more popular doesn't automatically mean that it is better.

I've had my share of low-budget mice and they're not cut out for gaming. I can't deny personal preferences so if you and your friends like to play with a thumb ball then by all means, but it's simply not suitable for competitive gaming where both speed and precision are needed.

Just for comparison, I could praise my Razer Diamondback in the same way. It's incredibly precise, feels good in my hand and never gives any muscle strains.

Have you actually ever used a Trackball?

Is there a video or something else that shows a team using trackballs beating another same-level team that uses gaming mice in an fps game?

Oh yes, I forgot that things are shit unless famous people use them...

Let me guess, you're the kinda guy who wears flimsy Nike runners because David Beckham wears them?

Edited October 19, 2009 by echo1

[_Blackblood_ 10]

+1

Proud trackball owner since the 90's. Noone ever complaints about my shooting or driving. And like Sertraline says, in 3ds max and oxygen it rocks.

[NeMeSiS 11]

-And last but not least: In my 8 years of HEAVY DUTY gaming and everyday usage i have never ever come close to musclepains, strains or any issues that are so common with the 'regular' mouse. If you don't believe me, think about it: You only use your thumb, the arm and shoulder rests comfortably.

Ive been using 5€ mice for as long as i can remember, and i never, ever had any muscle problems from mousing. Get a decent chair/table. :p

[echo1 0]

That varies greatly from person to person. For some people, things like Trackballs are a necessity.

Although, as someone who doesn't suffer from RSI problems, I'd still find a Trackball to be a far more comfortable and efficient way of interfacing with a computer compared with a regular mouse. I find mice to be somewhat more suited to games, but that's personal preference more than a failing of a Trackball . I could use them if I got used to using one for gaming.

[riffleman 20]

@ch_123

my start menu obtion start go to top of right handside.i know alt+ctrl+arrow.but it did't work.

[Agelesslink 10]

Sunbeam Computer Case

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811166004

ASUS Motherboard

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131404

Zalman Cooling Fan

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835118046

Sony DVD CD-ROM Drive "nothing fancy needed eh?"

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827118031

Corsair 2x2GB RAM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145260

Seagate Barracuda 1TB Storage

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145260

Intel Core i5 Quad Core Processor

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115215

NVIDIA XFS GeForce GTX graphics card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150398

ok. ive been doing my homework and i think all of this is compatible. can u check for me. all of this is searched on newegg.com if there is a cheaper "official" site let me know. if there is anything else i need "hardware, cables, more fans, anything" can u kindly let me know?

also is this a strong computer if everything is right? for $851.93 that is lol

[.kju 3244]

You may consider more RAM like 6 or 8 GB for a ram drive. See:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?p=1468457

PS: all your links are broken.

[Agelesslink 10]

damn. i'm sorry. didnt check them.that sucks

---------- Post added at 04:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:24 PM ----------

i was just gonna start with the 4 Gb so i can get a basic rig goin then upgrade to 8 Gb.

ASUS P7P55D LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard

ZALMAN CNPS9900LED 120mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler

SONY Black 18X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA DVD-ROM Drive Model DDU1681S-0B - OEM

CORSAIR XMS3 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMX4GX3M2A1600C9

Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST31000528AS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor

XFX GX260XADJC GeForce GTX 260 896MB 448-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card

Sunbeam Transformer IC-TR-US-BA-WOPSU Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case

thats everything i was gonna get. i'm pretty sure i'm gonna have to buy lik SATA cables and stuff, but as far as hardware, am i good? not really tech savvy, just took a crash course on youtube this morn.lol

[Leopardi 0]

Razer and Roccat make serious mice.

razer makes crap mice and keyboards that are hyped. Build quality is downright cheap.

[ozzkilledtoto 10]

Hello all...I have just upgraded my compaq sr2020nx from 512mb of ram to 2 gb of ram. I did this to be able to play my otherwise choppy games. Before when playing WoW I was getting anywhere from 12-15 fps, now it jumps from 13- 22. Granted there has been SOME improvement but not as much as I previosly expected. Is there anyway I can make the upgade more prominent? I don't really play too many new or graphically intensive games on my pc. (wow, diablo 2, gta vicecity, morrowind, etc) ive never had a problem with frame rate in diablo2 but wow and morrowind still seem laggy. The improvements I have seen in WoW are not only small but I still have all the graphical settings on the lowest (800x600, all effects turned off, etc). Here are my systems specs before the 2 gb upgrade. " http://www.dealtime.com/xPF-Hewlett-Packard-HP-SR2020NX-Compaq-Presario-Desktop-PC " I got my ram from crucial.com and I got it in the form of two 1 gb sticks. I expected quadrupling my ram would make a world of difference but it's only been SLIGHTLY improved. I'm not trying to be selfish or impossible to please but I do wan't my games to run at about 30 fps, at the very least 25 with some of the graphic settings on medium. Do I need to buy a new video card? I was reccomended to get either of these :

ATi Radeon HD 3870 512MB/1GB 256-bit GDDR4

ATi Radeon HD 4670 512MB/1GB 128-bit GDDR3

OR

ATi Radeon HD 4770 512MB 128-bit GDDR5

I eventually do plan to buy a better video card but until I do is there anyway to improve peformance? any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

-ozz

---------- Post added at 06:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:29 PM ----------

anyone??

[max power 21]

Probably get a multicore processor.

[randir14 10]

If you don't own any BIS games why did you register on this forum to ask such a question? Just seems kind of weird.

In any case your main problem is the lack of a video card, you're not going to get better performance until you buy a new one. Also since your motherboard is socket AM2 you can upgrade your processor to a AM2 or AM2+ dual core. Something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103210

If you do upgrade your video card you might need a new power supply as well, the 4770 needs a minimum 450 watt. See the requirements here: http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonhd4700/requirements.html

Edited October 23, 2009 by randir14

[riffleman 20]

My pc is ok,ram 1 Gb.

[vilas 477]

Probably get a multicore processor.

yes, i double this

[celery 8]

razer makes crap mice and keyboards that are hyped. Build quality is downright cheap.

Oh, I guess I just haven't noticed that the mouse I've used with great performance for 5 years is in fact a piece of crap.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

Nvidia kills GTX285, GTX275, GTX260, abandons the mid and high end market

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/10/06/nvidia-kills-gtx285-gtx275-gtx260-abandons-mid-and-high-end-market/

I am just reading this now :eek: , am I scoop or poop? :D

[Shadow NX 1]

My PC decided to make me insane again and from working perfectly yesterday now decided to show a problem suddently, already googled for it but couldnt find a answer so i ask the experts here:

I was happily playing through the night and afterwards shut my PC down, next day where i started it it did the usual beep after start but there was no monitor signal.

If i wait a bit longer my Windows7 partition starts normally and i have a wonderfull perfectly normal monitor signal again.

Tried it a few times and each time the same, in the boot screens i get no video signal for some reason.

Im asolutely clueless here, had a similar problem two years ago that ended in me replacing nearly my whole PC so all that is left of the PC that had the problem before was the PC case, the HDD, the 2 DVD drives and a ( not correctly plugged in so useless ) internal cardreader, everything else is all new.

---

About my System:

- Windows XP as main OS and Windows7 as second partition on the same HDD, as i cant see anything on boot my PC always starts 7 as it was the last installed O2.

XP has all patches added and Service pack 3 installed.

- Mainboard is Gigabyte GA-MA78G-DS3H

- AMD Phenom X4 9850BE not OCed

- 4096MB G-Skill DDR-2 Ram, 4 modules, running in Dual mode.

- GPU ATI/Sapphire HD4870 512MB not OCed, latest 9.10 drivers

- As display i use a HP w2207h, connected via HDMI cable to get rid of the light flickering i always had before with a normal cable.

---

What else, hmm i have TuneUp Utillities 2009 installed and before it happened it told me that the automatic system fixed many entries in the registry.

However it did such stuff before and all worked well.

I tried to set the system back few days but also nothing.

However as it comes right after booting i guess it cant be related anyway.

Apart from that my system as it is wasnt changed a bit in the last few months and ran perfectly fine till today.

Well im totally clueless and i wonder if anyone has a idea?

Edited November 1, 2009 by Shadow NX

[Sertorius21 10]

My PC decided to make me insane again and from working perfectly yesterday now decided to show a problem suddently, already googled for it but couldnt find a answer so i ask the experts here:

I was happily playing through the night and afterwards shut my PC down, next day where i started it it did the usual beep after start but there was no monitor signal.

If i wait a bit longer my Windows7 partition starts normally and i have a wonderfull perfectly normal monitor signal again.

Tried it a few times and each time the same, in the boot screens i get no video signal for some reason.

- 4096MB G-Skill DDR-2 Ram, 4 modules, running in Dual mode.

- GPU ATI/Sapphire HD4870 512MB not OCed

Apart from that my system as it is wasnt changed a bit in the last few months and ran perfectly fine till today.

Well im totally clueless and i wonder if anyone has a idea?

You wouldn't happen to have an older graphics card sitting around? The first thing I'd do when encountering video problems would be to swap out the graphics card for another one. Otherwise, you could try scrubbing your video drivers and installing them fresh.

Could you clarify which boot screens you can't see? The ones from the motherboard or the ones from Windows 7? If it's just the motherboard screens, have you tried accessing BIOS?

Edited November 1, 2009 by Sertorius21