Real Stats on ArmA better than myth head-lies

[.kju 3242]

So what is your agenda?

People are able to read the stats correctly and not like you are trying to make them look

like no matter how hard you try.

So again Walker to debunk your false story.

* Servers are not hidden, they are just passworded.

* These stats of that site are meaning less for the story you are trying to make up:

1) Missions without type not part of it. Did you read that?

> Only valid modes COOP, SC, CTF, CTI, TEAM, HOLD, DM, FF, C&H will be listed.

2) Most of the 30% hold is likely Berzerk. ( class Header{gameType=Hold;}; )

3) 0% C&H are just giving you further evidence.

Real stats would be per mission type.

Should not be too hard to filter the mission name to get them.

Did you look at 'Most Played Mission (last 30 days)' by chance?

Did you ever play AAS from CoolBox, or any based of SBSmac or ESL league missions - no?

Is there a CTI league for a2? Is there even a lively public CTI scene comparable to OFP - no?

Is there a CTF/CQB league? How is the relation of squads dedicated to compared to OFP?

How many teams and leagues for C&H / A&D are there?

Do you see many public traditional COOP servers in a2?

We can see a strong Evolution, Domination, Berzerk, Warfare scene and private communities

on passworded servers. We do miss very much those scenes that made OFP great for PvP.

To make this clear. All these currently popular missions are very well made and deserve to

be popular. Yet there are not everyone's cup of tee. Especially more experienced players

prefer other mission types.

The important fact is that a2 public scene is not lively enough to support more scenes

and for good reasons the PvP are lacking most. If OA continues on that road, the series

will loose more and more potential customers.

Tell the people the real story. We really like to know.

Here is the reality:

http://arma2.swec.se/server/list

Edited September 13, 2009 by kju

[walker 0]

Hi Kju

As I said several times I accept the statisitics are incomplete and I gave the example of hidden servers which at least one person in this thread has said they run. Access to hidden servers tends to be invite only. It is a simple method to prevent griefers and Tk types from playing on the main community server. Passwords is another way. Several communities run multiple servers. They run a public server as the recruiting server, that is the public facing server.

If you want to run a hidden server go here:

http://www.kellys-heroes.eu/files/tutorials/dedicated/

Stage Two - Configure ArmA2 Server

Look in the config at the following lines:

49 /*

50 Gamespy reporting url for public server list inclusion

51 use 127.0.0.1 for LAN server

52 */

53 reportingIP="arma2pc.master.gamespy.com";

Simply remove the URL address.

reportingIP="";

It is explained here:

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/server.cfg

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Killswitch%27s_Sandbox

Just because you do not know they are there kju does not mean they do not exist ;)

Kind Regards walker

[.kju 3242]

Sorry. Did not work. Of course I am well aware that it is possible.

The point is you are making people people believe a significant amount of PvP servers

are running hidden. That is NOT the case. Try again better next time.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Kju I never said

...making people people believe a significant amount of PvP servers

are running hidden...

please do not put words in my mouth.

I pointed out

...You can get some stats on the number of hours played in ArmA

http://arma2.swec.se/game/statistics

Seems like all the "There is no PvP!" head-lies are incorrect Coop accounts for 41% of ArmA II...

I went on further to point out that the stats were incomplete

...And all this ignores the fact that most of the large clan/community servers do not show up in the stats because they are hidden...

What hidden servers are running is inevitably hidden the clue is in the word. ;)

You cannot get stats for hidden servers.

I was merely pointing out that saying PvP was dieing out was a myth; a confidence trick perpetrated through a head-lie by those with another agenda.

That a particular form of PvP is unpopular does not mean all PvP has died out. It just means the players prefer a different more modern form of PvP. Trying to equate your own form of PvP with being all PvP is a doomed excise in self abuse. That other forms of PvP become more popular is just the market in action.

ArmA has always been a game where new game forms are invented. I play on Zeus a lot they make new missions every week and are always experimenting. If as you suggest you were to analyse the stats on mission names those missions would hardly ever show up, because they get played maybe 3 or 4 times then a new mission replaces them. That is the nature of ArmA.

As to

reportingIP="";

not working

Sorry. Did not work. Of course I am well aware that it is possible...

that is odd because I just tested it to verify whether or not it had suddenly stopped working and it is still working. I think I would have noticed if it stopped working. Can you be more specific about your server config if there is a bug in this function it should be reported in the community issue tracker.

Kind regards walker

Edited September 13, 2009 by walker
spelling and grammar

[Yoma 0]

I don't think i care wether PVP or Coop or mixed stuff is most played.

What is a shame is that missions like Domination and Evolution are run more then others.

Not that they are bad missions, but they show only part of what the engine can do and have a generic feel to them.

However, when I look at Gamespy lists nowadays, this is something I think is starting to change.

The important thing is people are enjoying the game, I don't care in what way they do that.

[walker 0]

I don't think i care wether PVP or Coop or mixed stuff is most played.

What is a shame is that missions like Domination and Evolution are run more then others.

Not that they are bad missions, but they show only part of what the engine can do and have a generic feel to them.

However, when I look at Gamespy lists nowadays, this is something I think is starting to change.

The important thing is people are enjoying the game, I don't care in what way they do that.

Hi yoma

Yes I agree.

I just spent an excellent day playing ArmA a few times on DAO's 100 player public berzerk server tried to get on latter but it was full as usual followed by an excellent evening on Zeus.

Zeus have been running a server open to public on sunday evenings and encouraging people to join them on coms. There was a problem with the usual TK numpties in the first weeks but over time the ban list has populated so each night there are less. Tonight just one TK incident which had zero effect on game play and the person got banned so that is one less. Overall an excellent gaming night 1 new mission a new and better version of an old mission and one mission we had played once before.

So Like most ArmA players I play that mix of coop and PvP.

I think the size and number of server seems to have increased a little. By the way Zeus may be running 200 player mission latter possibly Thursday or next Sunday, at least LWLooz is trying to encourage us to.

Kind Regards walker

Edited October 23, 2009 by walker

[Mike84 1]

looz did nothing of that kind!

and what is a head-lie walker (google comes up empty)? are you making up words again?

edit: nvm, just found it....omg

Edited September 14, 2009 by Mike84

[.kju 3242]

Walker just read your thread title, first (and second) post. And we can continue.

[Inkompetent 0]

Also, I might add that I don't think there are any major issues with the provided statistics. However I think it is more important to get relevant statistics. Like for example a poll about how many are happy with the missions they do find online, and how many play anyway even though they can't find what they want, and even then it only represents the english-speaking part of the community that are active on these forums, which can't be a very big part of the ArmA community.

[walker 0]

Hi all

In reply to Mike I presume the OMG was finding the 200 player mission on the Zeus Server.

As to head-lie

You need to improve you Google skills

http://cincinnati.blogspot.com/2007/08/who-wrote-headlie.html

English is by nature due to our mongrel heritage, a dynamic and evolving language. New words appear in english regularly and unlike french there is no central group who decide what words can and can not be used. In fact the key parameter for inclusion in the oxford english dictionary is "accepted usage"; further the phrase often appears as sub title of english language dictionaries.

In english accepted use and grammar when you conjoin two words you use a hiphen to begin with; then after usage is accepted and apparent by use, the hyphen is removed to form a true new word; as you can see from the link.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=en-GB&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGLR_enGB247GB247&q=headlie

I went back to the older form with the hyphen precisley to denote it is new word in common english language use.

Kind Regards walker

Edited September 14, 2009 by walker

[LeftSkidLow 1]

I've been speaking English all my life but that thread title just doesn't make sense. I can't imagine a native English speaker ever coming up with that title. If English isn't you're first language I commend you for learning another language, but just realize that you will you never make sense out of that title for us.

[sbsmac 0]

I prefer to read it as

"rheostats on arm are better than my head lice"

[{sas}stalker 10]

as usual, I'm speechless

And to add, I really don't believe that any significant portion of the online community would want to run hidden servers, Sure there will be a few with some reason or other, but for the most part they will want to advertise their community even if its invite only, Why would you hide it when you can password it. Its far to easy to say "the game has healthy constant playing numbers, its just they are all on hidden servers" even if it were true, its not healthy

Edited September 15, 2009 by {SAS}Stalker

[brit~XR 0]

Hi all

Interesting to see the concern troll head-lie posts wonder why?

Anyway.

You can get some stats on the number of hours played in ArmA

http://arma2.swec.se/game/statistics

Seems like all the "There is no PvP!" head-lies are incorrect Coop accounts for 41% of ArmA II

A look at Berzerk stats shows the number of players playing just that one game form on just that one Server is over 11000 people! And rising at over 1000 per week!

http://www.get42.com/berzerk/player.php?column=score&order=desc&page=24

So I guess the head-lie about ArmA declining fast is scotched.

The DAO 100 player server is always full so much so that they have started running a second Berzerk server. There are usualy 2 or 3 others in the hundred player region each evening.

And all this ignores the fact that most of the large clan/community servers do not show up in the stats because they are hidden.

Kind Regards walker

11000 player names loged on the stats doesnt mean 11000 players. Alot of people change there name or use more then one name. And theres no way theres 11000 active players on multiplayer.

We used to use this stat system on arma 1 http://xrserver.com/stats/

which shows all kind of info when you click on a players name. Just waiting for benny to get it working on arma 2.

Shows some good info like who tk buildings and many other things

[galzohar 31]

Name logged does not equal active player. Just because someone tried Berzerk for 5 minutes and quit doesn't mean he's a PvPer or Berzerk player. Heck using that method I play lots of domination as I logged in to quite a few domination-running servers, but in reality the actual time total that I spent in domination missions is quite minimal and will stay that way.

[walker 0]

Hi all

I do not think that there are 1000 people a week who change their ID, since the Ban list works off unique player ID number it does not get them back on the server and purposeful TK is rare on Berzerk, the server is very well admined by humans like Ed. By the way it is 12000 people that have now played Berzerk on the DAO servers. As I said number of players is going up 1000 a week.

http://www.get42.com/berzerk/player.php?column=score&order=desc&page=25

So having excluded TK and griefer as reasons one is left with the odd behaviour of people who change their ID all the time. Hmm.

As to Domination: So according to you all the people logging on to domination log do so for a few seconds then leave. Odd behaviour once again. Also infers Domination is not as popular as you said earlier, kinda contradicting your self with that. Either Domination, Evolution, other dynamic coops etc. are swamping out PvP as your myth goes or all the people playing Domination are visiting the servers for a few seconds by mistake.

Some how I think the Domination fans might dispute that one with you.

What I find odd is why people want to make a bad myth about an ArmA successes like Berzerk?

I wonder what the agenda of such people is?

Kind regards walker

Edited September 16, 2009 by walker

[An Fiach 10]

I just found this thread and Walker, at the time of your posting, the PVP thread was relatively old where at the time of its posting there were few opportunities for pvp as the servers were flooded with Domi and Evo missions. It was accurate at the time to a degree but now that time has passed and people have had opportunity to release new missions it has changed. Is there a new thread that I am unaware of? That is my initial reaction, I will continue to read the thread to see if my opinion changes.

---------- Post added at 08:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:14 AM ----------

Hmm Walker, sorry mate, I like you but I have to strongly disagree and state that it appears that you are doing the same as those you are accusing, except in a reverse agenda.

Some flaws in your arguments, there are individuals that have several names and has nothing to do with hiding. For instance, myself, I have the standard name that is automatically created when I install the game (computer user name), I havethis name and then I have another name for my son so that he can play the campaign and online himself and people won't confuse us. All it takes is 1% of players to have multiple names to make a significant impact on the numbers.

When I play online, I tend to be stuck with what's available, so it is Berserk most often if I want pvp or some Domi server if the pvp servers are full or not active. Doesn't mean I am a big fan of those missions, just means I am determined to play something when I get a chance to log on. I am not a big fan of CTI because few people play it and I don't want to spend my time saving up to buy troops and equipment, traveling large distances to die seconds later with no real sense of what is going on. The alternatives are usually on servers with a high ping for me or passworded servers, so if I am going to play, I have little choice. Somehow I doubt I'm in the minority but I'm not going to spend time lobbying in the forums for more options.

To be a proponent of objectivity you have a lot of pre-conceived notions about players as evidenced in many of your posts. I am open to the possibility that you are correct here but it remains to be proven and there are many that disagree.

" There are lies, damned lies and statistics." Stats can be manipulated to fit the agenda of the presenter, so let's leave them to the reader to interpret.

[walker 0]

Hi anfiach

I have never had a problem with people reading and interpreting the statistics them selves; in point of fact I 100% encourage it, from the first post I made in this thread that is what I have been saying, and have been encouraging others to make up their own minds.

...I keep saying stats, scientific tests and your own personal opinion are the only ways to decide what is going on in ArmA.

All us forum blowhards, and I include myself in this, are no where as important as each ArmA players own personal opinion.

What I disagree with is the concern trolls who make unsupported and purposefully controversial, Headlie posts; trying to push their agenda on to the community as fact, when they have Zero supporting evidence.

Such posts are confidence tricks being played on the community and their methods and characteristics should always be pointed out and their agenda questioned.

To misquote you quote.

"There are lies, damned lies and Headlies." Just because it is a head line does not make it true. And Controversial is NOT the same as popular.

That people can skew their interpretations of statistics is a given but scientific methods and real metrics in the the form of statistics are the only objective measure all else is opinion.

Kind Regards walker

Edited September 16, 2009 by walker
spelling

[sbsmac 0]

I count 10842 unique names.

5906 have completed less than 2 missions (ie 0 or 1)

8161 have have less than 2 infantry kills.

Not being familiar with Berzerk I'm not quite sure what this says about the level of engagement but it looks like a lot of people are just dipping in and out rather than sticking with it (at least on this server). It would be very interesting to see player-session stats.

>That people can skew their interpretations of statistics is a given but scientific methods and real metrics in the the form of statiscs are the only objective measure all else is opinion

Measurements and data always trump uninformed opinion. The trick is that data itself is subject to quality measurements. "8 out of 10 cats prefer Whiskas" after all.

[galzohar 31]

5906 have completed less than 2 missions (ie 0 or 1)

8161 have have less than 2 infantry kills.

Just what we needed to see. That supports my claims, at least regarding Berzerk. Like said above, people give it a try anyway because they don't really have anything else they can play with people, and then after it disappointed them they leave. It is a very common behavior when there's a game you want to play but nowhere to play it the way you like. You don't get what you want, so you give something you don't want a chance, it fails you and you quit.

I think with just a couple design changes, some on the objective-placement levels but some also on the capturing and respawn mechanics can greatly improve Berzerk. I also think that there are other game modes that can be successful if people just dared to give them a try, but the problem is just about any PvP gametype would require at the very least 10-20 players (and usually a lot more), so joining an empty server running a new game mode is rather discouraging even if you really really want to try a new game mode.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Good to see sbsmac actually analysing the stats.

I also point to how often the 100 player the DAO Berzerk server is full.

Kind Regards walker

[brit~XR 0]

I count 10842 unique names.

5906 have completed less than 2 missions (ie 0 or 1)

8161 have have less than 2 infantry kills.

Thats just proof that berzerk doesnt have 11000 players but we all knew that anyway. and i bet my life if the stats loged by player id then it wouldnt show 10842 ids aswell as names.

Also if there was so many berzerk players then more berzerk servers would be filled up with 100 players instead of just one.

Hi all

Good to see sbsmac actually analysing the stats.

I also point to how often the 100 player the DAO Berzerk server is full.

Kind Regards walker

Well you also have to look at the fact that if other missions like warfare could handle 100 slots then they would be full to. Because it can only handle 32 slots at the moment so they always full at 32 slot. we run 2 warfare servers always full. even increased it to 40 slots at once time with full servers full thats 80 players then theres other servers runing warfare to that become full like rougnecks. SuicideSquad and many others.

But if warfare could handle 128 players then a server hosting 128 warfare would fill up easy

Also gotta take into account how many of the players on server are regulars and dont just disconnect after 5min of playing as theres always people coming and leaving during the game

Just to prove my point. top 5 servers at the moment

So them stats with 11000+ people loged mean nothing. Server just logs more players quicky because it runs 100 slots so gets more player connects then the avage 32slot server. And if there was seriously so many dedicated berzerk players then there be more full 100 slot servers runing berzerk on the list instead of just one

[walker 0]

Hi all

Since at least one person in this thread has said their son plays ArmA on their machine; thus two people on the same ID. We have established that even if one were to use unique user ID we would be missing numbers of players as there are two people who play with that ID.

12000 plus stats means precisely what it says: 12000 plus user-names have played on that server. If some of those are two people using the same computer as some point out it means the figures for number of players are higher not lower; the same applies to any other game or indeed to and unique installation IDs. It is only if we were to use unique user IDs based on ID certification such as Thawte certification which traces back to passports, birth certificates credit cards that we can be more certain of identity of players.

While I accept the stats can be disputed; they are there and I personally think the number of players will be less than 3% in error. Ditto the 1000 player a week rise. I cannot conceive of much benefit to anyone of continually changing their User-name. I have had the same user-name since OFP days, why would I change it?

Kind Regards walker

Edited September 18, 2009 by walker

[An Fiach 10]

So what you are inferring is that a 1000 player per week increase of individuals logging to a server is evidence of increased interest? Please note that not only do people change their names (whether you can fathom their reasons or not) there are people every day that are new to the game and are bound to log into the largest server running at least one time. Assuming that the server stats are not refreshed on a weekly basis, this tells us that 1000 new names log to the server per week but does not indicate how many of those players are retained as return visitors.

We can assume at least 1000 players return regularly every day on the low end and 5000 on the high end: (3hr session = 8 sessions per 24hrs x 100 players per session = 800 players per 24hrs) (30min session = 2 sessions per hour = 48 sessions per 24hrs x 100 players per session = 4800 players per 24hrs). So twice as many people have visited the server than actually play on it regularly.

[walker 0]

Hi all

All that is said is ~1000 new user-names have played on that server in that mission every week.

How that is interpreted is up to each individual who reads the stats.

One has to accept the stats as that is the only objective measure anything else is opinion.

Kind Regards walker