FP : DR - News & Discussion

[Scrub 0]

Holy Crap! This thread is out of freeking control. The zombie mash of 'hellz yea' pre-release CM hype has washed over to here. Feelings have replaced little things like common sense, and facts, and stuff.

OFP / Arma ballistics have been in since the beginning. Anyone here remember a little thing called COC arty? The real stuff, not scripted like DR? Time of flight and such? Oh yea, sorry.. Like Arma 2 has now?

Hmm. Comparing people need to get it. DR != Arma. Different focus, one is about tactical substance, scale and combined arms operations - one is about.. Shooting.

If this is old, sorry, the thread is under BS external assualt, and the count is PAGES per hour.

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

As many of us have stated previously, we were excited about DR but now, after learning of the restrictions etc, we aren't.

QFT:

The 1st few videos from 2 yrs ago really had me going...........but then facts were released.:rolleyes:

[Zipper5 74]

If this is old, sorry, the thread is under BS external assualt, and the count is PAGES per hour.

Agreed, as I posted earlier, the thread increased by 13 pages overnight. :eek:

[dm 9]

Just to prove that DR's FLIR isn't at all realistic:

Real life FLIR:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/army/tradoc/usaic/mipb/1998-1/p34flir.jpg

VBS2 FLIR:

http://www.militarysim.nl/VBS2_488.jpg

EDIT: That's not a picture of VBS2 FLIR. Looks like greyscale once again.

I think you'll find it is, its just taken during daytime where the heat of the sun alters the temperature of all the other components in the scene.

This is VBS2 FLIR.

http://img7.imageshost.ru/imgs/090802/5db77318e5/96924.jpg

Correct, that is also VBS2 FLIR, but taken at night, where the ambient temperature is much lower, resulting in a higher contrast between the units and the terrain.

Hm, I'm pretty sure it is. It looks quite similar to that, just zoomed out further. That's obviously taken in one of VBS2's desert maps where the ground is just sand or a road and is radiating lots of heat. Zommed in, it looks like it's just a gray background.

Correct, plus what I said above.

VBS2 FLIR Video

That is a very very old video, when the implementation was first done. The artwork has been greatly improved since then, as has the functionality. It now also offers black and white, orange, green and scientific modes (scientific is the same thing they use in mythbusters to show you how hot something is)

Edited October 4, 2009 by DM

[Apache-Cobra 0]

Seriously?

Ho hum... here we go again...

And modding support has not yet been 100% confirmed. I also fail to see how 275m tethered co-op in a 2x2km square box is going to destroy ArmA?

Which is nothing like FLIR is in real life, and is not confirmed to have metabolism, heat up/cool down times, contrast influences acording to the sun, weapons heating up by being fired, people leaving footprints, vehicles leaving warm tyre tracks, different modes - white hot, black hot, orange hot, green hot etc etc... Currently their "FLIR" is nothing more than "make everything that moves white, and everything that doesnt grey"...

You mean the same way you can and have been able to do since OFP?

Which is 100% unconfirmed. It will be interesting to see what, if anything (considering how much else they dropped) is still left of this system. Oh, and for the record, ArmA2 does have a penetration system.

Will concede the point on that one, although aside from seeing some dudes helmet shot off, nothing has actually been 100% confirmed on that...

You mean like ArmA2's does? And this same "functional" AI has also been reported by several sources to occasionally be as dumb as hats, and just sit there waiting for you to shoot it...

I'm sorry, I guess I must have just been imagining seeing the suspension of vehicles moving since OFP. Also, several reviews have commented on the vehicle physics as being "wooly" so the jury is still out on that...

Retreating has been confirmed - ArmA2's will do that given the right circumstances too. As for hiding, crying etc, nothing has been confirmed.

Total limb loss has yet to be confirmed - the guy who I quoted earlier said that even after pounding some dudes with 105mm artillery, they were just crumpled heaps, but all in one bit. Stomach and head wounds have been confirmed however.

Which also limits you to 63 ai (including vehicles) and a 2x2km play area for mp. Again, its not optimised, its cut-down.

I'll give you that one, although I find ArmA2's sound system to be equally awesome and immersive...

I dont get the fus about LUA, afterall its just another language, no more or less powerful that sqs/f. As for documented, that is yet to be seen (AFAIK)

They have a bigger budget, thats for sure. But I dont think I'd go as far to call either side "professional"

1. No you're not right.

2. If they dont run on physics, what DO they run on? Magical fariy dust?

Jesus, this thread is full of so much derp... to start with it was amusing, now its just down right dull...

1. Irrelevant.

2. Does ArmA have that?

3. Show me proof that you can see bullets on OFP/ArmA

4. ArmA2 uses hitpoints. You can only penetrate fences and some map props. And it is confirmed to be in DR.

5. CM can't make a video for every single feature.

6. Whenever I play ArmA2 the AI lies down and shoots, I haven't really seen it take cover. Could be wrong though, but I doubt it. BI can't make AI for s**t.

7. Vehicles are practically on ice skates in OFP/ArmA

8. It's been shown on video and been described by reviewers.

9. If the bodies were near ground zero of the blast, then that is indeed strange, but they could have simply been hit with fragmentation from a further distance.

10. Lock ups and memory leaks among other problems tend to happen even if you are the only unit in the field.

11. True, ArmA2's sounds are actually pretty good.

12. LUA is the easiest scripting system in existence. Documentation exists already, both from the creators of LUA as well as a list of commands and arguments for DR from CM themselves.

13. Fair enough, I suppose.

14. Specific scripting.

*FLIR post*

Evidence/photos/other proof?

Frankly, I'll be glad enough to get a realistic game that is playable and relatively bug free. The satisfaction here is atrocious, as a majority of the community agrees.

Think I'm done here for now. Reasoning is impossible with (some of) you guys.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Apache-Cobra

[MehMan 0]

3. Show me proof that you can see bullets on OFP/ArmA

I don't see why this is so important?

[myshaak 0]

Regarding the ArmA2 ballistics, please check's these videos. This is a work of an experienced modder, not vanilla ArmA stuff, it is wonderful anyway.

It's all in one pack, called Mando missile.

Missiles & countermesures & stealth planes -

Tor-M1 system -

(Tor-M1 system IRL -

)

Ka-52 missile system with MFD -

Timed lock-on -

And here's another one, from a different modder, also a nice one.

Artillery script -

(nice projectile cam)

[eble 3]

good luck on the CM forums it seems to have been taken over by 12 year olds.

The one guy who actually has played it and was giving answers to everyone had his thread closed.

CM must be scared of what he might say next (tho it was all good to start with)

Lots of people asked outright is it better than Arma2, he said in some respects yes but Arma2 was a better core game.

He was playing the xbox360 tho

[Zipper5 74]

6. Whenever I play ArmA2 the AI lies down and shoots, I haven't really seen it take cover. Could be wrong though, but I doubt it. BI can't make AI for s**t.

That's definitely false. While the AI isn't perfect, it doesn't do that nearly as much as it did in OFP or ArmA anymore. It acts much more appropriately now. The AI BIS have created for ArmA II is actually quite impressive given the dynamic nature of the game, and while it does hiccup some times, it's quite the achievement that it does what it does, as well as it does.

Edit:

The one guy who actually has played it and was giving answers to everyone had his thread closed.

CM must be scared of what he might say next (tho it was all good to start with)

Woah, what the hell? Why would they do that? :confused: They must be scared that he'll expose issues with the game that they don't want people to know about before they've already bought the game, or something. Can't think of any other reason.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Zipper5

[4 IN 1 0]

I don't see why this is so important?

Beause it is important for him, and therefore should important for everyone.

[dm 9]

1. Irrelevant.

So its irrelevant that modding hasnt been confirmed yet, but dr with mods is going to kill arma? Interesting logic...

2. Does ArmA have that?

Default arma2 does not, but Arrowhead will.

Show me proof that you can see bullets on OFP/ArmA

I'm posting from an eeePC, so you might excuse me if I dont just jump ingame and grab some screenshots. On the flipside, why dont you show me that you can see bullets in dr? Afterall, you're trying to convince me its better...

4. ArmA2 uses hitpoints. You can only penetrate fences and some map props. And it is confirmed to be in DR.

Yet magically if you put a little effort into an addon you can indeed create a fully penetrable vehicle using the penetration system thats built into the engine.

5. CM can't make a video for every single feature.

But they can make a video where they talk about stuff that is no longer in the game... Its not confirmed until its confirmed. And until it is confirmed to be in or out, it is nothing but hearsay and conjecture.

6. Whenever I play ArmA2 the AI lies down and shoots, I haven't really seen it take cover. Could be wrong though, but I doubt it. BI can't make AI for s**t.

Yet it can drive vehicles, operate as a team, follow a dumbass human that runs all over the place, shoot pistols, rifles, rocket launchers, crew tanks, fly jets and helicopters and NONE of it is pre-scripted. Sure it has its dumb moments, but I'd hardly say they cant make AI for shit...

7. Vehicles are practically on ice skates in OFP/ArmA

Again, opinion. Nothing has been proven otherwise for dragon rising, and as I said before, some reviews have commented on the "wooly handling" of the vehicles in dr.

8. It's been shown on video and been described by reviewers.

The only mention of crying was by Dragonova in that thread I quoted earlier - and he said that he had not seen it... Got links to this fabled video (that ISNT pre-rendered target artwork?

9. If the bodies were near ground zero of the blast, then that is indeed strange, but they could have simply been hit with fragmentation from a further distance.

He mentioned it because the artillery strike was practically on top of their position...

14. Specific scripting.

Right... We're not going to use physics to do our bullets, but just run a script every time one is fired...

Evidence/photos/other proof?

Where is your evidence/proof? And dont say "they said it in the videos" because as we know, the vast majority of what was promised has been cut. So until its proven otherwise, most things are in doubt...

As for the FLIR thing - I'm deeply involved in VBS, I can post screenshots and videos of it until you're blue in the face tomorrow if you'd like. But everything I said there is true, VBS simulates all of those things, and Arrowhead is getting the VBS IR simulation...

[bangtail 0]

Frankly, I'll be glad enough to get a realistic game that is playable and relatively bug free. The satisfaction here is atrocious, as a majority of the community agrees.

Think I'm done here for now. Reasoning is impossible with (some of) you guys.

You've surveyed everyone have you uber Troller?

Didn't think so. Another one for the Apacrapche-Cobra bullshit column.

Reasoning? You've done no such thing. What you have done is try to force your misinformation on us and you have been called on it again and again. The same points you try to use are suddenly "irrelevant" when your "arguments" are refuted.

You even tried to say that a photo of VBS2 wasn't VBS2. You're about as much of a "military expert" as I am a sushi chef.

Eth

Edited October 4, 2009 by BangTail

[Zipper5 74]

OFP DR - First 10mins - Codemasters Forum

Uh, didn't that guy in the PC Zone review say that there aren't any "patronizing" hints telling you how to move? What's that I see at 0:38 then? :j:

[Praelium 0]

The AI does take cover in Arma II. Proof:

What's impressive, (in my opinion), is that those crates are not part of the map. They were placed as objects in the editor and the AI still responds accordingly.

[Herbal Influence 10]

That's definitely false. (...) It acts much more appropriately now. The AI BIS have created for ArmA II is actually quite impressive given the dynamic nature of the game, and while it does hiccup some times, it's quite the achievement that it does what it does, as well as it does.

I offered this DR-fanboi yesterday evening to put two groups of BLUFOR/OPFOR in the editor and himself as CIVI on top of tower of airport .. to see them doing a small, fast and intelligent war.

To see them taking cover.

I don't believe he didn't find the time.

I don't believe he didn't read it.

I begin seriously to wonder, for CM has deep pockets concerning marketing, whether some guys are doing a marketing thing here.

Can anybody gimme a clue whether this discussion might positively effect at last the sells of DR ? I don't really get it.

Can the advertising go:

"AA2 fans battle against DR on their forum - see how serious they take us as a competitor ?" or someting like that?

[dm 9]

The one guy who actually has played it and was giving answers to everyone had his thread closed.

Ahahahahahahahaha and guess who closed it....

Everyones faveourite censor moderator, viiiiiiiper. Nice.

OFP DR - First 10mins - Codemasters Forum

Uh, didn't that guy in the PC Zone review say that there aren't any "patronizing" hints telling you how to move? What's that I see at 0:38 then? :j:

Oh good lord... And not only is it a hint, but its one of those SUPER annoying "you have to click it away" hints (unlike the hints that popup in the corners in the pc versions of OFP and ArmA1/2). Man, can we trust anything reviewers write these days?

[myshaak 0]

The AI does take cover in Arma II. Proof:

What's impressive, (in my opinion), is that those crates are not part of the map. They were placed as objects in the editor and the AI still responds accordingly.

Thx for the link, I haven't seen that one ...and it's really impressive.

[Zipper5 74]

Doesn't there seem to be a lot of missing audio in that first mission? I don't know if it was a one off, but at 5:00 the message from Sabre just cuts out, at 5:55 there is no "Rounds complete." or "Splash." radio message, even though there was a "Rounds away." message. And then, at 6:01 Sabre says "Over." but the player doesn't reply. It sounds like there was meant to be more.

If that is just a one off instance then ok, can't see why they'd have it in a video like that though. If that's what it's actually like then... not a great first impression when the first mission's audio doesn't work properly.

[eble 3]

this is the guy who has the game:

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=383000

and this was our favourite mod Viiipers remarks when closing it:

/closed

pointless thread. The UK game ships 9th Oct.

[Apache-Cobra 0]

...

Right... we're not talking about mods here by the way. I'll post a few sources, but aside from that I'm done here.

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/7466/tshell.png

The tracer effect is off a little bit but is likely fixed by now, seeing as I believe that is an old build before they began the tweaking/bugfixing stage.

There's also a photo showing a sabot round being fired from an Abrams, but I haven't been able to find that despite a huge amount of searching.

-------------

"Tim noticed a third spotter on the radar as I waited to respawn and moved towards a concrete bunker behind which he was waiting to pounce. Or not, as it turned out. Having sent Avery around one side of the bunker, while he sneaked around the other, when they both popped out to face the enemy they discovered a PLA soldier crying on his knees. At which point, Tim shot him."

"I finally completed this mission last night and while I don't want to give anything away my soldier experienced something new near the end of one 'failed mission' attempt. I was the last man in our squad and had been cornered in a building with 4 enemy on the outside and I got myself into a corner to try and pop them off as they came in or through the window when my character started to whimper. Not just a little sniffle, but a fully committed big girls' blouse blubber. It quite put me off my aim and is probably why I only managed to take two of them out before they killed me. Yes, that's the reason.

Payback later though when I shot one in the legs then strolled towards him, stood over him while he whimpered then shot him.

Whimpering is a 'nice' touch. I didn't expect it. "

Both quotes taken from www.incgamers.com review diary.

Looking for that video now... Actually, it looks more like they are taking cover from suppressive fire, which is still more than ArmA can say.

TTsm5GQVoqM

17-22 seconds in.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Rellikki
Posted image > 100kb

[Zipper5 74]

this is the guy who has the game:

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=383000

and this was our favourite mod Viiipers remarks when closing it:

Ok, Viiper is just messed up. How on earth is that a pointless thread? Take when ArmA II was released early, for example. Issues were being pointed out, but BIS didn't close the threads, and it certainly wasn't pointless.

Viiper should be fired for the job he does. Or lack thereof...

[Apache-Cobra 0]

Ok, Viiper is just messed up. How on earth is that a pointless thread? Take when ArmA II was released early, for example. Issues were being pointed out, but BIS didn't close the threads, and it certainly wasn't pointless.

Viiper should be fired for the job he does. Or lack thereof...

I'm going to PM him now and ask why, that was a bit odd of him. Maybe he only read the last 2-3 pages where the OP had gone offline for a bit and where people started going off topic.

[Zipper5 74]

What the?

is apparently the actual intro to the game? Uh... I'm going to take a wild leap here and say that there are no characters in the campaign, just random grunts. Like ArmA's campaign, but even less (it did have William Porter in the American version).

[dm 9]

Right... we're not talking about mods here by the way.

Neither was I...

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/7466/tshell.png

The tracer effect is off a little bit but is likely fixed by now, seeing as I believe that is an old build before they began the tweaking/bugfixing stage.

There's also a photo showing a sabot round being fired from an Abrams, but I haven't been able to find that despite a huge amount of searching.

And I shall recreate that screenshot for you tomorrow in both VBS (to show what the IR will look like) and ArmA2 (to show the shell, tracer etc).

<snip>

Whimpering is a 'nice' touch. I didn't expect it. "

Both quotes taken from www.incgamers.com review diary.

Well I'll give them that one, but you do know that AI will roll around crying/screaming (all be it like a 12 year old) when you've shot them non-fatally in ArmA2, too? (Assuming the medical module is active)

it looks more like they are taking cover from suppressive fire, which is still more than ArmA can say.

TTsm5GQVoqM

17-22 seconds in.

Looks like 2 of them have died and are rag-dolling, and the thrid at the back is taking cover. Hand on the helmet is a nice touch.

The crouching and whatnot, ArmA's AI does.

[space 10]

I sense that some of you are upset that OFP : DR has turned out so well, particularly after the disappointment of ArmA2. Some of you need to swallow your pride and look at both games (without considering mods/future releases) and have a long hard think about which is the best overall package. Considering that everyone has played ArmA2, some of the criticisms of DR are pretty ironic, but the people making these criticisms cant cant see that.

A big factor in realism is the immersion, which is very hard to judge from screenshots and youtube clips. Many people on this forum will be trying the game later in the week, so I guess that we will get a better idea of how it is when people post up their opinions, but if they're positive, then no doubt they will be dismissed as somehow not being true ArmA fans. I think we're going to be hearing alot of this tbh :

While ArmA II had the potential to be superb Dragon Rising actually is

Some people will doubtless hate it, saying it's not a par on ArmA II, moaning about how it isn't realistic enough or that the PLA don't have accurate uniforms, but I advise you to ignore the naysayers and play the game.

Review: Operation Flashpoint 2: Dragon Rising Review - ComputerAndVideoGames.com