Ok, the grass clutter is making me not want to play anymore

[zolop0 10]

The grass would be fine if just the AI bots wouldn't have X-ray vision.

It's so lame that you can't see through the grass but the AI can...

It's not realistic.

I use smoke to cover avenues of movement on realistic difficulty and it works against enemy AI. The enemy when I play on the demo warfare mode do not have x-ray vision either. I do die often but that is because I usually don't have a teammate on position for overwatch.

Also

"when crawling through grass, stop, crawl forward to flatten the grass, crawl back and you will have a clearing, more or less like real life.

have fun.. "

Have you at all read the guide dsyelixic put out? Do you use tactics/teamwork on your mission? Do you assign fireteam, or place markers on the map for planning during the briefing or during mission? Do you know how to use High Command?

Which is the way ArmA1 did it. Then BI decided they needed ArmA2 to look better so they greatly increased the height, density and complexity of grass, adding patches of high grass and the like. The end result is pure eye candy to sell the game, anyone actually playing it will immediately realize the grass is completely fubar.

The grass is not just eye candy, it is used as cover/concealment. I do not want to go back to OFP/Arma terrain grass, it made the game too easy to pick out targets and camouflage wasn't that useful. Now the sniper suits actually work pretty well and most of the other infantry uniforms when the foliage is rendered.

---------- Post added at 01:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 PM ----------

I think you are missing the point.

If everyone had grass around them from your POV, that would be fine. But, assuming you have played the game, you notice that the radial clutter is only about 40yds around you. That means anyone further out may not be able to see you because of their imposed grass, but to you, they are WIDE open.

They are ways to fix this as we have mentioned and wish BIS would implement them. Until then it is just frustrating and takes away a lot from them game.

---------- Post added at 08:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 PM ----------

We have listed this as some of our options.

I think I missed the last few points you guys made.

The point about the radial clutter is only about 40yds around you is a good point. The cameoflauge that changes with the terrain is a good idea to solve this problem for snipers with those suits and a little bit sinking into the ground is not a bad idea for the rest of the infantry.

There is no easy solution, though as this has plagued many games similar to this.

Edited July 28, 2009 by zolop0

[mcvittees 0]

It gets worse: last Sunday we were conducting an operation in which we had bunkers facing a forested hill. Russian regulars were assaulting the bunkers from over this hill and through the forest. From the bunkers you could hardly see squat because of the foilage, but for me on a hill 600m behind the bunkers I could clearly see the enemy running through the 'forest' as the canopy wasn't rendered. It was great fun chewing them up with Ma Deuce, but totally stupid that the soldiers were being rendered but not their cover! This is definitly a top 5 issue!

[igeighty 2]

Also

"when crawling through grass, stop, crawl forward to flatten the grass, crawl back and you will have a clearing, more or less like real life.

have fun.. "

Have you at all read the guide dsyelixic put out? Do you use tactics/teamwork on your mission? Do you assign fireteam, or place markers on the map for planning during the briefing or during mission? Do you know how to use High Command?

zolop0,

I am not sure who you are referencing when quoting what I posted so ill assume your post is asking me if i have read the guide ?.

I have read Dyslexi's guide, Also have been playing the arma series for several years, nightly, but I am not sure what the relevance is to the original posters question ? But i will try and explain what it was that I meant.

What I was trying to say when I said to create yourself a clearing. Is that when you are lying prone and you have grass obscuring your field of view, you merely have to nudge forward (while still prone), flatten the grass that is blocking your view and move back slightly, this will generally give you a clearer view of the thing that you are trying to add lead weight to.

As for fire team, markers and high command, I do know how to utilise these things, but what has that got to do with the fact that the grass is only rendered 60m in front of you ? and never rendered around distant troops ? As the original poster is writing about.

I can be lying in the deepest longest grass motionless, the AI still will see me from a distance. Just as when they are lying in the long grass I can see them from a distance as there is no grass being rendered around them.

The grass is pretty, I play with it on always, however it is completely ineffectual when playing against AI, who have magic see through grass goggles :)

[zolop0 10]

zolop0,

I am not sure who you are referencing when quoting what I posted so ill assume your post is asking me if i have read the guide ?.

I have read Dyslexi's guide, Also have been playing the arma series for several years, nightly, but I am not sure what the relevance is to the original posters question ? But i will try and explain what it was that I meant.

What I was trying to say when I said to create yourself a clearing. Is that when you are lying prone and you have grass obscuring your field of view, you merely have to nudge forward (while still prone), flatten the grass that is blocking your view and move back slightly, this will generally give you a clearer view of the thing that you are trying to add lead weight to.

As for fire team, markers and high command, I do know how to utilise these things, but what has that got to do with the fact that the grass is only rendered 60m in front of you ? and never rendered around distant troops ? As the original poster is writing about.

I can be lying in the deepest longest grass motionless, the AI still will see me from a distance. Just as when they are lying in the long grass I can see them from a distance as there is no grass being rendered around them.

The grass is pretty, I play with it on always, however it is completely ineffectual when playing against AI, who have magic see through grass goggles :)

My apologies, I might have linked the quote incorrectly as the first paragraph was a reply to Blackbird_CaD_ comment about enemy AI having X-Ray vision.

The last paragraph was in agreement with your quote about grass not being rendered at distance to a specific target. Remember above a certain distance we also have the grass goggles. I like you have played since the OFP days (The OFP campaigns were the best). I still can do better job at spotting a target from the sound of the muzzle, to the sound of the snap, then to where the bullet. It is tough to learn good spotting in this I do admit.

---------- Post added at 05:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:15 PM ----------

It gets worse: last Sunday we were conducting an operation in which we had bunkers facing a forested hill. Russian regulars were assaulting the bunkers from over this hill and through the forest. From the bunkers you could hardly see squat because of the foilage, but for me on a hill 600m behind the bunkers I could clearly see the enemy running through the 'forest' as the canopy wasn't rendered. It was great fun chewing them up with Ma Deuce, but totally stupid that the soldiers were being rendered but not their cover! This is definitly a top 5 issue!

Agree, that is a good example what kills the immersion in this game.

Edited July 28, 2009 by zolop0

[igeighty 2]

@zolop0

thats ok mate, no worries there, i just wasnt sure if the thread was getting all skewed :)

also i like to create a little place to lay in by doing the 'homer spin' ;)

regards,/

[zolop0 10]

@zolop0

thats ok mate, no worries there, i just wasnt sure if the thread was getting all skewed :)

also i like to create a little place to lay in by doing the 'homer spin' ;)

regards,/

That sounds like a dance move, "Do the homer Spin" we just need a dance floor! :bounce3:

[christud 0]

I wrote this elsewhere but thought it should go here too so apologies to anyone reading twice! Personally, i'm pleased with Maruk's repy about the grass hindering AI detection and feel that the game plays well this way. However, it's obvious from reading the posts of you 'techies' that improvements can be made as it is frustrating feeling that you are at a disadvantage when prone during firefights, so here is my suggestion (probably wrong thread but here we go): why not radically shorten the grass in any fields that have cows or sheep in them - since it would be cropped short by grazing! I think that this would: give people the opportunity to decide the nature of their contacts/routes to target (in long or short grass); maybe help framerate; create a more varied landscape and fit it with 'real world rules' better. I also believe that it would fit the current detection system more appropriately. We would then have the best of 'both worlds' (visually beautiful, tall grass and shorter, more 'tactical grass') and everyone would be happy ;-)!!! As if...

Don't get me wrong though - I upgraded my PC (bought a new one) for this game and am loving it beyond words. The co-op gameplay in 'Insurgent Airfield' and 'Operation Bee Sting' with friends is simply sublime. So my message is: BIS - keep doing what you're doing because nobody does it better.

[galzohar 31]

It's like the kid showing his mom his drawing and all she sees is an empty piece of paper.

Mom: What did you draw?

Kid: A cow eating grass.

Mom: Where is the grass and the cow?

Kid: It ate the grass and left.

[Fornax 0]

Just have to agree with (most) people here.

I think its a real game-ruiner having foliage 40m around you. Its easier to spot (and hit) a target 400m away than a target 30m away. A sniper can kill a whole platoon trying to hide in high grass, as this grass is not drawn to him...

Really hope thay can do something about this, as it really ruins much of the immersion of the game imho.

Just looking at a few videos from OFP2: Dragon Rising for comparison: http://www.ofp2dr.com/videos

Seems like the drawing distance there for foliage is much longer there.

Please, I hope Bohemia can do something about this ruiner of an otherwise excellent game.

[Turbayne 10]

Just looking at a few videos from OFP2: Dragon Rising for comparison: http://www.ofp2dr.com/videos

Seems like the drawing distance there for foliage is much longer there.

OFP2 allows grass to be turned off, so the whole thing is pretty null and void.

Until grass can be done properly, it should be optimized for practicality first and foremost and only then visual appeal.

A quick search reveals there are ways of rendering grass for all distances:

http://www.kevinboulanger.net/grass.html

BI went to great effort building natural trees and foliage for Arma2, hopefully they will next turn their attention towards grass.

Edited July 29, 2009 by Turbayne

[Heatseeker 0]

Short grass is functional!

[LockDOwn 0]

Does BIS even read our concerns???

I was not going to but I am going to have to give OFP2 a try now.

[Maddmatt 1]

Does BIS even read our concerns???

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=81935&page=2

Reply from Maruk at the top of that page.

Basically, grass does affect AI. But there is no system to hide you from human players over distance, yet.

[tophe 69]

I downloaded the texture mod and play with grass off, for the moment. Doesn't look great, but better than the original ground textures, and you don't have to stand to shoot all the time.

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=6050

[Turbayne 10]

There is approximation for clutter surrounding every unit affecting how well the AI can see it.

Sounds like a role playing game. Roll the dice and pray you won't be sniped in a single shot.

[nyran125 10]

i havent noticed that at all, if you lie down in the grass Ai wont often shoot you unless they already know where you are. If they know where you are already and you ahve already alerted them then its actually quite realistic for them to shoot AT YOU!!!! and in real life its actually pretty easy to see people sitting or lying on grass unless they are REALLY COVERED in grass. I think its realistic that once the enemy knows where you are, that they just start shooting at you. I know i would if i saw an opponent drop to the grass or saw them moving a bit. Its more realistic than you think, go test it in real life go lie in some grass and have a friend try and find you. I use to play tag in the forests and it was easy as to find people in grass it was HARD when they wer behind trees or UP them or in dense bushes. Youll also notice that if your behind bushes and the ai cant see you, they will stop shooting you. The reality is if you alert them YOUR SCREWED. IF they know where they are YOUR SCREWED. IF your quiet you can actually almost creep right up to them.

Edited July 31, 2009 by nyran125

[LockDOwn 0]

I could car less about AI. I am talking mainly about PvP.

[galzohar 31]

Not a big difference between players and AI - players see through grass that is >30~40m away from them, while AI see through all grass.