Spawn Camping....?

[spec_ops_sniper 0]

I hate that term, Spawn camping. And its almost been none existent in arma, but well after about 3 games on different PvP servers, i have seen the same thing. A enemy armored vehicle drives right on over to your spawn area and well, sits there shooting at whoever spawns.

This is my suggestion for any mission makers or even BIS, have both teams start a long distance from each other in random but pre- defined locations (so you don't start in a river or on a hill) and then move in to the battle zone(by Helo and armor/ light transport)

Thats just what i wanted to get off my chest and sorry if there is another thread like this out there.

[Inkompetent 0]

Or simply just kill anyone that gets into the spawn area by a trigger. <grins>

[icebreakr 3159]

Yeah, and get rid of the vehicles or they'll rape the base from the distance :)

[Slyder73 10]

Sonds like a good tactic by the enemy. Instead of creating artificial game mechanics to stop this, why doesn't the team being "spawn camped" just communicate and have a couple AT guys spawn at another base and go clear the area? If it's a sniper camping a spawn, same thing, deal with it as a team.

The enemy objective is to capture areas and prevent their enemy from being there to defend it, by buttoning down an entire spawn area and making it useless (usually the back one on Hold mode where the better vehicles are), they are doing a good job of helping their team win. Sounds like a good strategy.

Should be up to the victim of the camping in this case to coordinate enough to clear up the problem.

[spec_ops_sniper 0]

Most PvP missions people make only have 1 base to spawn from with only one little spot in the open.

[galzohar 31]

The problem is not really the spawn camping itself, but rather the fact it's actually needed in the firstplace. If a contested zone would stop respawning players then this would not have been an issue. Currently you have to actually have enough players in the zone in order to start capping, which against good enough teams may be impossible without doing some spawn camping first until enough team members make it alive in the zone to stop the respawning.

[Slyder73 10]

Most PvP missions people make only have 1 base to spawn from with only one little spot in the open.

As far as I've experienced, all the PvP missions I've played, on hold mode have multiple spawns eventually. Each area that is captured can become a spawn zone, plus the mobile spawns, you just have to change which zone you are selecting to spawn in at the spawn screen.

If you are being killed as you spawn in one, spawn elsewhere and go back and clear that area out because it's possible that person camping you is working with some teamates trying to prevent that area from being used or to cause a distraction or prevent vehicle usage.

[Apocal 10]

Sonds like a good tactic by the enemy. Instead of creating artificial game mechanics to stop this, why doesn't the team being "spawn camped" just communicate and have a couple AT guys spawn at another base and go clear the area? If it's a sniper camping a spawn, same thing, deal with it as a team.

In defense of the OP, I'd like to say it's entirely possible to completely lock down some of the more open spawn areas on certain maps. Especially with armed vehicles. Virtually every crew-served or vehicle-mounted weapon has longer effective range than the common types of AT (RPG, SMAW, RPG18, AT4). I've exploited that advantage myself, not by spawncamping, but sitting on a large hill astride their main route to the action and locked things down for a solid hour with just a static ZU-23 in Devastation. Infantry finally took the time to painstalkingly infiltrate the hill, take out two guys acting as my security and blow up my beautiful 23mm (:() But were I a less scrupulous player I could have positioned on a different side of the hill and ranged right into one of their spawns for much the same effect.

(BTW, I'd just like to take this time to plug the ZU-23 a bit, easily the best overall weapon in ArmA2. You have a lower profile than a vehicle, can't be locked onto or detected on radar, the large caliber and high RoF means that it requires no special skill to harvest snipers, infantry: LOLOLOLOLOL, the AP rounds will absolutely poop on anything that isn't a full up main battle tank, helos either have to fly slow to effectively use their cannon against you or you get a "down the throat" shot if they make a rocket run at you, plentiful ammo and it even comes in a technical version for all your mobility needs!)

(In other words, mission designers: be careful about putting it into any PvP mission)

The enemy objective is to capture areas and prevent their enemy from being there to defend it, by buttoning down an entire spawn area and making it useless (usually the back one on Hold mode where the better vehicles are), they are doing a good job of helping their team win. Sounds like a good strategy.

Should be up to the victim of the camping in this case to coordinate enough to clear up the problem.

The issue isn't coordination. It's that it's entirely possible for one suitably favored individual to lock a whole spawn point off with very few consequences. Two individuals similiarly favored can generally knock the other team out of the fight until they run out of ammo.

[ModeZt 0]

First of all. Please, don't try to talk to BIS about this issues. They have nothing to do with it. All the maps that are played online are made by community. And the map maker has all the needed scripts to allow or prevent spawn killing.

The most annoying spawnkilling is in the Berzerk map. I hate this map cos it's a goddamn ultimate tank camping. The only solution is to get another tank and try to sneak behind the camper.

The other popular type of PvP maps is AAS (Assault and secure). I personally think spawnkilling in AAS is not a bad thing. If you choose to spawn on the base that is closest to the battle, then you agree to take the risk.

[Eclipse4349 1]

Agree, its up to the mission creator to think of how the gameplay will be affected by things like spawn campong. The layout, and how readily accessible the necessary weapons are at the respawn areas will determine the extent of the problem, to a large degree.

Two things people should do when spawning is to consider NOT spawning at the closest point to the point you are attacking, giving you the opportunity to outmaneuver the campers, and , to MOVE. DO NOT just stand there until you figure out exactly where you are. You should be sprinting from the start, THEN find the nearest cover and get to it. Much harder to hit that way.

How do you set it in your mission that players have spawn armor for a certain time limit, by the way? That helps too.

I also like the trigger of death for opposing players in the spawn area idea, depending on the mission.

[galzohar 31]

The other popular type of PvP maps is AAS (Assault and secure). I personally think spawnkilling in AAS is not a bad thing. If you choose to spawn on the base that is closest to the battle, then you agree to take the risk.

On AAS if you DON'T spawn on the base that is closest to the battle, then you agree to let the ones who just spawn camped you to walk in and take it. There is no way you will make it back there in time.

Again the easy fix to this is instead of having 1 blue and 1 red "contested" zones with respawns in them, do more like the Charlie Foxtrot maps and have one black zone in the middle that is "contested". Nobody can spawn in the black zone and it's the only zone that can be captured. That way in order for someone to reach your spawn to camp you he will have to walk 2X the distance comapred to just going to the black zone where you're supposed to fight, and it'll place him away from the black zone which is his actual goal. If that's not enough, then in this new design you can actually add spawn protection on the red/blue zones as nobody is supposed to fight in them anyway - the fight is supposed to be in the black zone until it is captured and then the next zone (blue if red captured, red if blue captured) becomes the black zone.

If a mission has spawn camping, it's a plain design flaw.

[whisper 0]

/agree

Current AAS design makes spawncamping a GOAL... not a good idea

[Eclipse4349 1]

On AAS if you DON'T spawn on the base that is closest to the battle, then you agree to let the ones who just spawn camped you to walk in and take it. There is no way you will make it back there in time.

Again the easy fix to this is instead of having 1 blue and 1 red "contested" zones with respawns in them, do more like the Charlie Foxtrot maps and have one black zone in the middle that is "contested". Nobody can spawn in the black zone and it's the only zone that can be captured. That way in order for someone to reach your spawn to camp you he will have to walk 2X the distance comapred to just going to the black zone where you're supposed to fight, and it'll place him away from the black zone which is his actual goal. If that's not enough, then in this new design you can actually add spawn protection on the red/blue zones as nobody is supposed to fight in them anyway - the fight is supposed to be in the black zone until it is captured and then the next zone (blue if red captured, red if blue captured) becomes the black zone.

If a mission has spawn camping, it's a plain design flaw.

Agree. Spawn killing is the result of mission design, mostly. A central contested zone is the way to go. Or, zones need to be close enough that it doesnt take too long to get to the next one, so spawning at the next one back is not rolling over and giving the enemy the zone. It all comes down to mission design.

[Rekit 10]

I agree with the general feed back to the OP.

This is a war simulator game. In war, if the enemy comes and rapes your base.... well what you going to do about it.

Yes the game is ment to be fun, and i am sure the guy attacking your spawn is having fun. Do something about it so you can enjoy too. Find shelter, change class to AT, work as a team.

A couple things I have learnt quick playing ARMA2 is

-Enough people dont read the manual

-Enough people dont play single player campaign, missions, and training before jumping online

-There are alot of lone soldiers out there doing their own thing

-Many tards

-There are many people on public servers willing to teach and give advise on game play

-and just to be annoying, people use and dump assets all over the map just because the wont give other people lifts, retrieve them after dumping them, or cant be bothered walking 50 meters to the actual vechile they want.

This last point is a little of topic, but i am in rant mode now. There is nothing more annoying then joining a server, and having to go pick up a dozen wrecks and abandoned vechiles before even you start playing.

Back on topic. It is a team stratagy combat simulator. War is not fair, griefers are in life and combat, and you should be protecting your base/spawn/assets as part of the game, and not entrusting this to admins, or game mechanics.

Work as a team, and protect yourselves. I personally dont like the stratagy, but if it works, why not. If rules, and mechanics were added to prevent gameplay in a manner you are suggesting, I would be disappointed

[Alex72 1]

A couple things I have learnt quick playing ARMA2 is

-Enough people dont read the manual

-Enough people dont play single player campaign, missions, and training before jumping online

-There are alot of lone soldiers out there doing their own thing

-Many tards

Sad but true. And those people are usually also the ones complaining that the game is bad... Hmmmm. :rolleyes:

[galzohar 31]

I have to say that I started playing without reading the manual, and read the manual later on - and it taught me absolutely nothing.

[walker 0]

Hi all

I am a great fan of spawn camping it is excellent method for teaching both players and mission authors not be numpties. :)

Where a spawn is under fire a player should not spawn into it. It is like choosing a bad Drop zone for paratroops. The troops have almost zero situational awareness and spend the first 10 to 30 seconds being targets trying to work out where they are.

Mission authors need to ensure base Spawn is protected by scripts and intervening terrain and objects to prevent direct and indirect fire. This not rocket science it is four values in a trigger and a marker. The scripts already exist so there is no excuse for not using them.

Also that contested spawns are large enough so the players do not spawn in so small an area it is like shooting fish in a barrel. Inclusion of emplacements, sandbags wire can also fine tune the balance of contested spawns.

If your mission is badly made people will stop playing it.

Kind regards walker

Edited July 22, 2009 by walker

[An Fiach 10]

I agree with the general feed back to the OP.

This is a war simulator game. In war, if the enemy comes and rapes your base.... well what you going to do about it.

Well you definitely wont have to log in and blindly spawn into a massacre, niether would you leave the perimeter open and undefended for them to simply walk in