optics zero

[Tozzifan 0]

hi,

my arma2 experience tells me that to hit a human target is looks like more a matter of trial and error than precision: either with sniper mils dotted optics, or with red dot optics, unless the target is near and filling the optics' field of view, there is to guesstimate the aim

yet maybe I am missing some simple digits: the optics' zeroed range for every weapon

anyone knowing that?

thanks

[maddogx 13]

Try shooting from standing or prone positions. Accuracy in crouched stance is somehow very low, the aim is wobbly etc.

There are videos on YouTube that show what range certain sights are zeroed on, aswell as the shooter making hits on the first or second shot.

[frederf 0]

It's in the manual.

[Tozzifan 0]

so far no good in manual ;) ..

I've found this

, yet M4 red dot and mil dot (Razor's team sniper rifle) zeroed ranges seem to be unknown

[Yoshama 0]

if you want a cool range finding and sniping tutorial

http://www.shooterready.com/lrsdemolow.html

i havn't tried it yet in arma 2 but in know that yes the svd and ksvk are accurate so this might be too

Edited July 17, 2009 by Yoshama

[Tozzifan 0]

if you want a cool range finding and sniping tutorial

http://www.shooterready.com/lrsdemolow.html

i havn't tried it yet in arma 2 but in know that yes the svd and ksvk are accurate so this might be too

:bounce3: really interesting! thanks

[frederf 0]

so far no good in manual ;) ..

Page 33 of the manual:

Ammunition in ArmA 2 has a set ballistic trajectory, so learn at what distance

each weapon's sights are leveled.

Optics/Ironsights leveling on distance:

50m > MP5, pistols

100m > AK74UN, M4/M16 with Aimpoint, ACOG sights or suppressor

120m-400m > M4SPR

150m > Grenadelauncher ironsights (M4 with ACOG 200m)

200m > SVD, KSVK, AK74PSO

300m > AK74, AK74GL, AK74U, M16A2, M16GL, M16A4, M16A4GL, all G36,

machineguns

500m > M107

[galzohar 31]

M107 seems to be 300m unzoomed and 500m zoomed, which is weird (not to mention the mildots aren't really mildots). Also not all weapons are listed and tbh I doubt this list is 100% reliable, and even if it is, some sights are a bit more complicated than just "zero range" (they have an aperture that's suitable for firing at various ranges). At the very least the offsets for each weapon at various distances should be listed.

[frederf 0]

You asked for the optics zeros, so there they are. Don't whine that they aren't full on ballistics cards. That's not what the thread is asking for.

The only weapon that should change zeros under optics FOV change should be the SPR but I wouldn't be surprised if the M107 did it too.

[manberries 0]

If things are like they were in arma 1 the scope picture isnt properly sized to make mildots work. I remember NWD releasing a mod to make them actually work. Also, zooming in will screw the mil dots in a whole new way. Can't wait for that mod and a scope adjust mod.

[frederf 0]

Yeah I know why they have the zoomable optics, it's because the real life optics have FOV of A and a zoom of B. The game can't get both right at the same time so they give you a zoom out limit to achieve the advertised FOV and a zoomed in limit to achieve the advertised magnification.

[galzohar 31]

Then zooming in shouldn't increase the scopes view, but rather:

Normal:

Zoomed:

That way you can keep the FOV of the scope real, and if the resulting image is too big "compress" it into the monitor and allow stretching it back via zooming. That way also if the mildots are correct on one view they stay correct on the other view.

That is without including how to handle scopes that actually have adjustable zoom IRL, but most military scopes don't have that anyway. Those that do, would preferably have a separate button to toggle it independent of the "standard" zoom feature.

Edited July 18, 2009 by galzohar

[bono_lv 10]

Can some experienced arma player explain how to aim correctly with mildot scopes? How to get range of target?

[galzohar 31]

Well IRL it would be 1 mil = 1m at 1000m, 1 dot radius = 0.2 mil, and you know that a man's shoulder width is ~45cm and some other sizes (like helmet size etc). Then you can do the math. However in-game it doesn't seem accurate, at least not always. In-game you can use your map to help estimate the range, but you'd still have to memorize the offsets for various ranges as the scopes are not adjustable (IRL you'd also memorize how many "clicks" for each distance, the clicks needed to be raised when switching from 300m to 400m is not the same as 400m to 500m, for example with some ammunitions IRL for M24 you'd need 5 clicks for 300m, 8 clicks for 400m and 13 clicks for 500m). For standard mildot scope 3.5 clicks up/down = 1 mil, and 7 clicks left/right are also 1 mil.

In-game, again, it's messy. Some parts are done accurately and some are not.

[frederf 0]

Can some experienced arma player explain how to aim correctly with mildot scopes? How to get range of target?

The process comes in two parts, finding range, and then the offset applied. It's all pretty simple.

Finding range can be done with anything, the map and a ruler, a laser range finder, etc. With the typical US military optics it's done with a little trigonometry based on the angular size of the target and the assumed target size.

(Target Size m) x 1000 / (Target Range m) = (Angular Size mil)

Or rearranged:

(Target Size m) x 1000 / (Angular Size mil) = (Target Range m)

Once you have the range (horizontal component if not firing over level ground), it's simply a matter of looking up what weapon elevation corresponds to that range. This means referencing a card or memorizing the data. Then you simply shoot at that elevation.

---

There's a small catch in how the US Army and USMC design the dots on the sights. They do it differently with the Army making round dots at 1mil spacing (center to center) and the USMC has oblong shaped dots. It pays to recognize and be able to read the particular sight on that particular weapon and they do vary.

Edited July 18, 2009 by Frederf

[Tozzifan 0]

Page 33 of the manual:

Frederf,

on my UK release paper manual I have nothing, similar to what you quoted, on page 33 (I've scrolled it lenghtwise three times ... , I did not find a similar table ... AFAIK I don't have cataracts :) ... yet), and I don't have pdf or similar documents in Arma2 folder or in dvd as well

do we have the same manual?

are there other contents elsewhere?

---------- Post added at 02:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------

The process comes in two parts, finding range, and then the offset applied. It's all pretty simple.

Finding range can be done with anything, the map and a ruler, a laser range finder, etc. With the typical US military optics it's done with a little trigonometry based on the angular size of the target and the assumed target size.

(Target Size m) x 1000 / (Target Range m) = (Angular Size mil)

Or rearranged:

(Target Size m) x 1000 / (Angular Size mil) = (Target Range m)

Once you have the range (horizontal component if not firing over level ground), it's simply a matter of looking up what weapon elevation corresponds to that range. This means referencing a card or memorizing the data. Then you simply shoot at that elevation.

---

There's a small catch in how the US Army and USMC design the dots on the sights. They do it differently with the Army making round dots at 1mil spacing (center to center) and the USMC has oblong shaped dots. It pays to recognize and be able to read the particular sight on that particular weapon and they do vary.

another "annoying" Arma2 bug: we need a spotter :)

[Decerto 10]

There is a spotter in the "sniper team" group in the editor so it puts down a sniper and spotter as a teamed pair but he does nothing but act as another AI and doesn't help in any way regarding spotting.

[frederf 0]

You really don't need a spotter. An AI is not smart enough or programmed to do this task and in multiplayer anyone can do it so long as you both know what you're doing. The spotter just spreads the workload to speed things up. A spotter scope addon would be a likely addon.

My manual is the D2D version. It might vary based on the distributor. Alternate source for info: http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_Weapons

If one actually does their homework then long distance shooting in ArmA2 is pretty doable out to 1000m or so. The sights might not be exactly correct to the real world pattern but they are consistent from game instance to game instance. If you log enough study time in the editor you can record how the optics and ballistics work as is.

[Tozzifan 0]

...A spotter scope addon would be a likely addon.

My manual is the D2D version. It might vary based on the distributor. Alternate source for info: http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_Weapons

If one actually does their homework then long distance shooting in ArmA2 is pretty doable out to 1000m or so. The sights might not be exactly correct to the real world pattern but they are consistent from game instance to game instance. If you log enough study time in the editor you can record how the optics and ballistics work as is.

I totally agree about the addon, that would be a step towards the real thing

thanks for the link (I'd be curious whether IRL soldiers predominantly use M16/AK weapons zeroed to 300; AFAIK from real professionals, I thought that zero was at 100, being most of firefights inside that range...)

time is what I don't have, I'm so grateful for this forum

[frederf 0]

It varies based on unit SOP. Most units nowadays don't really use M16s with plain ironsights anyway. They're mostly equipped with ACOGs and Aimpoints.

[Tozzifan 0]

I know people from (italian) military telling that ACOG too is basically zeroed to 100yds (as a matter of fact, in Armas' close combat I had hard times, having to estimate where tu put the red aimingpoint with Cooper's standard weapon)

[akd42 10]

Yes, ACOGs have ballistically calibrated reticles, so you zero for 100m then the stadia below gives aiming points for further distances (200m, 300m and so on).

Aimpoints and other red dot sights, like iron sights, are given a "battle zero." Because the trajectory of 5.56mm is so flat, zeroing at 200m or 300m means that rounds will land within a few inches above or below the aiming point at typical engagement ranges.