Warfare Proton Mods

[Proton 11]

Thank you for the fast feedback, Luke.

What was your experience with more parallel arty missions per team? It should work in theory... but it is quite hard to test alone.

Can you describe the steps leading to a situation when deletion of arty pieces or shooting their crew is necessary? I found the team removal/addition part quite reliable while testing, but it does not mean too much.

Indeed there are more crew places per arty piece, but I never found a reason to put more on them as they do nothing. Use 1 crewman per mortar/howitzer and a driver/gunner per rocket launchers. Only the driver and the gunner will join the fire team, the others will stay with you. In theory it should not create any issues, and while testing I was able to conduct a fire mission with my AI sitting on the howitzer. Did you have any problems with that?

[USMCLuke 10]

I didn't get a chance (if I'm understanding the question correctly) to run RU and US fire missions concurrently, that's something we can try tonight. My issues with getting "battery is foxtrot uniform" kept occurring after I had run the first fire mission with more than 1 man on a single 81mm... After I deleted all the arty pieces, and then sent away all problem riflemen and waited a few minutes, it seemed to work fine. That said, the next fire mission I ran with 3 81mm/3 riflemen (1 per) and after that one, one of them didn't come back to me.

The key thing I've seen is that if during the allocating fire team to control portion a man stands up and steps away from the arty piece, that piece will be bugged. Why they're standing up and getting off the pieces I have no idea, I'm not even moving myself once the fire mission has been started.

[Proton 11]

It would be also interesting to check that what happens if two teams (belonging to different players) start firing on one side simultaneously. I have gone through the scripts and it looks viable, but it can fail in practice for any reason I am not aware of.

I have also experienced this random "get off" bug once, but did not happened since. It may be related to the fact that the fire team is moved into a temporary group on the server, and its leader is created then silently removed in the process; perhaps the one getting of the piece is the new assigned leader, and the server decides for some reason that it should get off... What I can do for now is to temporarily lock the arty pieces for the duration of the mission.

[USMCLuke 10]

Alright... There is now a metric ****-ton of bugs. This is what we've seen so far...

1. The need to disconnect in order to construct as first Cmdr was a bad bug, but not as bad as what is now happening... It appears that if you drive near a town and/or strongpoint with the MHQ, you lose the ability to construct Base structures, only Defense is then an option. Respawning, reconnecting, and switching Cmdrs does not fix so it requires a mission restart. We have had to restart more than play now while trying to relocate to airfields.

2. All weapon/ammo purchases seem to happen "faster" now in the interface, but the toss-up is you now get 2 or 3of anything you double-click.

3. When buying vehicles, IF your vehicle actually comes out of the factory, you are just as likely to get anywhere from 2 - 4 maybe even 5 of the same type of vehicle.

4. Random parachutes? I just don't know what to say here... One of our UH-1Y's was shot down and about 30 - 40 parachutes appeared in the air without bodies attatched. The guys that did eject were stuck in the air without 'chutes. Just weird...

5. As far as arty goes, you're almost guaranteed to not get a unit back if you run more than 2 of a type in one fire mission. Also, when I was playing alone last night it was very responsive and quick to execute. With about 12 people on our dedicated the fire missions can take almost 20 min. just to get to where you can click the map, then another 5-10 min. for the rounds to complete.

6. Switching Player Cmdr's in a mission causes "High Command" to break. As useless as it is right now, it was nice to be able to move the AI squads out of the main HQ area.

Our vote is still that you set static, and if not static then maybe a random of say 3 starting locations polar opposite on the map, like 3 for the RU up in the NE and 3 for the US in the SW. The reason for this is now that you've managed to get the HQ's separated at the start one is almost always going to start in or near the coast and build in the water.

Proton, if you can't seem to replicate these bugs yourself, we'd be happy to have you come into our server and Vent. so we can show you exactly how things are happening. Jump on and we'll get comms with you to give you the Vent. info. since it's not public.

Server info:

[MG] www.MilitaryGaming.net

216.6.231.130:2312

We're usually on in force with admins between 1800 and 0300 CST (GMT -6:00).

Edited August 11, 2009 by USMCLuke

[Gutm@sher 10]

Hi Proton,

congrats on your warfare without an addon required! the latest version hangs at the loading screen for me. ive d/l it from armaholic and the file sharing link, both with same results. anyone else having this issue? thanks for your work, i am eager to play it!

[Proton 11]

I will try reproduce them, especially No. 1. The changes of the buy menu is because of the removal of the addon - I had to circumvent that with an ugly hack. I already fixed some bugs related to it, but it looks like from your description that it is more serious.

That parachute bug is really weird and I have no idea what is going on there... Maybe some network async (I guess the chutes were generated for him but he got disconnected from the chute in the game engine.)

I will definitely visit your place soon, as I should actually *play* the mission more to see where it is the worst. Your reports are extremely useful and keep me busy, thanks for it!

---------- Post added at 04:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:50 AM ----------

Hi Proton,

congrats on your warfare without an addon required! the latest version hangs at the loading screen for me. ive d/l it from armaholic and the file sharing link, both with same results. anyone else having this issue? thanks for your work, i am eager to play it!

Hm, thats another strange one. Are you using addons? Can you please check the arma2.rpt or the arma2server.rpt and report bugs towards the end of it?

[nicklinn 10]

Hi Proton,

congrats on your warfare without an addon required! the latest version hangs at the loading screen for me. ive d/l it from armaholic and the file sharing link, both with same results. anyone else having this issue? thanks for your work, i am eager to play it!

I am having the same problem. I have removed everything and still no dice.

Here is the last couple lines of my rpt file:

Mods: CA

Distribution: 1465

Exe version: 1.03.58627

player Nick L, state CREATED -> CONNECTED

player Nick L, state MISSION ASKED -> ROLE ASSIGNED

player Nick L, state ROLE ASSIGNED -> MISSION RECEIVED

Cannot create non-ai vehicle Misc_Cargo1Bo,

Cannot create non-ai vehicle Misc_Cargo1Bo,

Cannot create non-ai vehicle Misc_Cargo1B,

Cannot create non-ai vehicle Misc_Cargo1B,

Cannot create non-ai vehicle Misc_Cargo1Bo,

Cannot create non-ai vehicle Misc_Cargo1Bo,

Cannot create non-ai vehicle Misc_Cargo1B,

Cannot create non-ai vehicle Misc_Cargo1Bo,

Cannot create non-ai vehicle Misc_Cargo1B,

Cannot create non-ai vehicle Misc_Cargo1B,

Cannot create non-ai vehicle Misc_Cargo1Bo,

Cannot create non-ai vehicle Misc_Cargo1B,

Cannot create non-ai vehicle Misc_Cargo1B,

Cannot create non-ai vehicle Misc_Cargo1Bo,

Cannot create non-ai vehicle Misc_Cargo1B,

Edited August 11, 2009 by nicklinn

[Proton 11]

Ok, I have it - you are running it as a standalone mission by hosting. Now it looks like to work properly on dedicated server only. Fix in progress.

[Gutm@sher 10]

Ok, I have it - you are running it as a standalone mission by hosting. Now it looks like to work properly on dedicated server only. Fix in progress.

Yep, thats what I was trying to do as well. Wanted to run through it abit before introduction to our server / guys. I am not running any addons. I am at work so no access to the arma.rpt atm. Thanks for the quick response.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Gutm@sher

[Proton 11]

1. The need to disconnect in order to construct as first Cmdr was a bad bug, but not as bad as what is now happening... It appears that if you drive near a town and/or strongpoint with the MHQ, you lose the ability to construct Base structures, only Defense is then an option. Respawning, reconnecting, and switching Cmdrs does not fix so it requires a mission restart. We have had to restart more than play now while trying to relocate to airfields.

First I thought that this was persistent, but I could not re-create it, and the base menu is properly back when you move into distance. So I believe you are referring to the normal behaviour, which is not a bug, rather a feature.

Base deployment is deliberately forbidden closer than 500m to any town depots (see changelog). This is because otherwise the commander could deploy the base (or a service point) very close to a town depot, and generate money by doing extremely short supply runs, or maxing out the town supply value in a few minutes.

If you do not like this, you can change this value in Change_Common.sqf in the line

BIS_WF_Constants SetVariable ["MINBASEFROMTOWNRANGE",500];

[USMCLuke 10]

Yup, that was exactly the case. We like to deploy to the airfield at Balota and that's where I kept running into that issue. I had drawn the assumption that since I could only build defense that it was something screwing up the menus when I passed towns/strongpoints. Good to know.

We did discover that both RU and US can run fire missions at the same time, however, we highly advise against it, and there should def. be something that prevents this from being possible. I'm still not 100% why, but for some reason a lot of stuff is slowing down real quick now. I put quite a few throttles in place on the server side to help overall performance, but it only helped a little. Last night with only about 10-12 people on avg., my second fire mission took me over 45 min. just to get to the "1" portion, finally I gave up and just restarted the server.

Also if someone disconnects while in the middle of a fire mission, you can kiss arty goodbye until you restart your server. Quite possibly for both teams. There needs to be something that prevents the script from infinite looping or whatever you want to call it. Maybe something like that it resets if input isn't received for longer than 10 min. from the originator of the fire mission? I can see that fix being bad if we can't find what is causing the arty script to bog down so horribly, but it would prevent it from breaking all together.

And finally, I did learn a "trick" about one of the nasty little bugs in this release... We had a lot of people getting random units when they were buying them (including Marine-manned RU UAZ's on BluFor). I discovered that it only happens when the person applies the filter at the top left, or at least I'm fairly sure. Somehow it is buying all the units that are X # down the list as what you are trying to buy. Say an MTVR (Ammo) is #12 on the light vehicle filter, you may end up with an Engineer too since it is also #12 on the infantry filter. My workaround was to just use the full list and not filter when buying units. Now about the multiple units of the same type spawning, I'm not sure about. We did notice that as the arty script bogged down to a crawl so did a few other things such as how long it took a vehicle you purchased to spawn and town CP captures. Extremely similar behavior as with the original Superpowers mission at about 4 hrs. in, except this is happening within the first 30 min. to hr. with this release.

Hope this helps!

Edited August 11, 2009 by USMCLuke

[greenpsycho 10]

Hey proton,

I haven't tested it out as thoroughly as Luke, but I did get a chance to tool around in the game and the new mod is great. I was testing it by myself, and yes, I did get 1 glitch when my guy stepped off the mortar and I lost him and couldn't do the artie strike, but I tried out the MLRS, mortar and howitzer quite a bit and it was running great. Very clear and very straight forward.

I'll test it out more later this week, but again, awesome mod and best warfare mod out there

[Proton 11]

Here comes a new version - mostly bugs, but added an options dialog as well with some new functions. I hope the arty is more robust now and is less prone to stuck, so probably it is easier on server resources, please test it. I have also slightly improved the base building of the AI commander, so it should be more useful now.

1.3 CHANGES:

+ Increased overall AI skill to the highest.

+ Added an option to the communication menu to unflip selected vehicles.

+ Added an options dialog where it is possible to 1. set the view distance and terrain grid, 2. transfer money in a more convenient way, 3. compact and sort group member icons and 4. set the default vehicle lock/unlock.

+ Fixed bugs in the buy units menu hack.

+ Fixed: added arty server script timeouts to handle non responding clients.

+ Fixed: destroyed AI teams are now re-added to high command properly.

+ Fixed: AI groups defending base will now leave their static defenses if base is moved away.

+ Fixed: AI commander now moves its building location with the HQ, so it is possible to relocate the MHQ and give the command to the AI again.

+ Fixed: AI commander will not build in water anymore.

+ Fixed: Improved vehicle placement around factories.

+ Fixed: Mission works again on a shared client/server.

---------- Post added at 04:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:33 AM ----------

About future additions:

I looked into the weather and it looks like being incompatible with the fasttime setting. It is kinda works, but in my experience the clouds of the overcast are stuttering and are changing shape without transitions, which is really annoying and unrealistic. So it looks like we have to choose between night/day cycles and weather; I think the first is more important and BIS implemented that much better, so I leave it as it is now. Fog can be added but it is quite lame.

A couple of basic things are still missing: an arty radar would be useful, helicopters should be able to lift vehicles and adding music would enhance the gameplay a lot. But I think the major targets are bugs and improving performance now. I will have less time in the coming weeks so if the game is actually playable, I am going to slow down.

In the recent weeks two other major mods of warfare have been released:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=81301&highlight=oden+warfare

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=82201&highlight=benny+warfare

I encourage you to check them out - just tell me what you liked or disliked in mine in comparison. Would be nice if the developers could work on a unified project together... we are now pretty much inventing the same (sometimes squared) wheel separately.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Proton

[Fjordmonkey 10]

Excellent, Proton! Will test this after I'm done with my 8-hour bout in hell (aka work).

[USMCLuke 10]

Will variables set in the server.ArmA2Profile and ArmA2.cfg take precedence over the options dialogue you've set? All of these and more we handle at our server level.

FYI none of the current helos are capable of carrying vehicles other than the HMMWV unless you want to strip all realism. Realism is one of the reasons we're big fans of your mod.

Facts (rounded):

The Seahawk can carry roughly 9,000 lbs.

The MV-22 can carry roughly 10,000 lbs.

This is assuming they're unarmed and do not have troops loaded.

The basic HMMWV's in the game weigh between 5,500 to 6,000 lbs.

The next closest vehicle is the LAV-25 coming in at just over 12 tons.

The UH-1Y cannot carry vehicles.

While cool, this would be a big bummer for all of us realism junkies to see. If anything, release it as an optional add-on for those that don't care.

What all us former USMC bubbas would love to see are the CH-53 and CH-46. With those you gain some heavy lifting capability, to include LAV's. So far all there is is the CH-47, and that is a different beast all together from the 46, even though they may look similar. Hopefully some nice modders will make the other helos so that this sort of thing can be a reality within the loose realm of realism.

[kremator 1065]

Would be nice if the developers could work on a unified project together... we are now pretty much inventing the same (sometimes squared) wheel separately.

I totally agree! There are some great ideas out here and perhaps you all need to drop eachother a PM (or open a Warfare Dev thread !)

Absolutely love Warfare games and they need your combined efforts :)

[Proton 11]

Will variables set in the server.ArmA2Profile and ArmA2.cfg take precedence over the options dialogue you've set? All of these and more we handle at our server level.

If you do not touch that part of the dialog, it should do nothing.

FYI none of the current helos are capable of carrying vehicles other than the HMMWV unless you want to strip all realism. Realism is one of the reasons we're big fans of your mod.

I completely agree - it is quite ridiculous to see UHs lifting 58 ton tanks. Still, it added a lot of fun to the game, especially because the MHQ could have been transported into the enemy's back. I also agree that a kind of "realism" can be the selling point in this mod, so I do not consider lifting as a very important addition. Maybe we can find something better alternative to do a more realistic drop of vehicles, like using many repair trucks/transport choppers together will enable one to make a building at a spot. This also highlights the more philosophical question of what are the non-realistic features at the moment.

Perhaps the best real-life equivalent of warfare is a small-scale, high intensity conflict where areas has to be taken and held. The most unrealistic point is money, but we can see it as an abstraction to distribute available reinforcements. Considering in this role it works quite well, except for the fact that reinforcements usually granted when a side is weak and not when it is strong, because in conflicts of this size tanks are rarely harvested from the field just taken. However, command will evaluate the progress of an operation and consider abandon it if is not progressing as expected, so it is fine to restrict reinforcements in the end if grounds are not taken. To simulate the more probably reinforcing of a looser, a kind of "boost" can be implemented for the weaker side, for example by increasing the buying power of its money. It could also balance the game if the teams are not equivalent.

Supply trucks practically measure that how well founded the team's claim to an area, so they are reasonable. It also helps by adding an option to attack the enemy's supply. Perhaps the technical problem of base building distance can be solved by measuring the travel distance, and if it is not long enough then less money is given. However, it would complicate the planning of routes.

Factories are also quite unrealistic but they can be seen as reinforcement drop-off points. In theory, all reinforcements should come from the edge of the map but factories and FT are useful to pump up the game's pace. They are acceptable until they do not mean magically appearing units when enemies around. FT is restricted by the enemy activity, so it is fine. Factories are not, and it is quite possible that somebody buys and entire squad of M1A2s at a stray heavy factory in the back of the enemy. What can be added is that the teams has to maintain a supply truck link between factories and the HQ in order to be able to buy stuff at that factory. In a sense the fact that the MHQ has to be moved to the building site is already implementing this as the MHQ is quite fragile, but maintaining a safe route and doing a high-risk move once is not exactly the same, and securing it needs a different military approach.

What else? Fire teams should be possible to move especially if arty radar is added. I have an idea how to do this.

Please add to the list if you like.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Proton

[galzohar 31]

I wouldn't try to look for realistic explanations of warfare elements, but rather see it as an RTS that is ran by 1st person with realistically behaving units, and balance/tweak it around that fact, because after all that's what warfare is.

[Proton 11]

Well, I could argue that real war is "an RTS that is ran by 1st person with realistically behaving units" ;) Thats why I said that it is more like a philosophical question. Obviously no simulator will ever be like real, and making it more real would involve putting in lots of boring elements, like toilets and endless guard shifts.

Reality is simply another factor of overall enjoyment of the game, and each player community decides about what level of reality is fun. But in the end it goes down to practical issues, like should we use heli lifting which is impossible IRL or not.

I think the important separating line is that the game should try not to produce situations which cannot arise IRL at all, although some small imagination may be necessary on the part of the player. Flying tanks below choppers are definitely like dragons - they just simply do not exist.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Proton

[greenpsycho 10]

In the recent weeks two other major mods of warfare have been released:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=81301&highlight=oden+warfare

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=82201&highlight=benny+warfare

I encourage you to check them out - just tell me what you liked or disliked in mine in comparison. Would be nice if the developers could work on a unified project together... we are now pretty much inventing the same (sometimes squared) wheel separately.

Awesome proton, I'll definitely test out the new version. The dynamic weather is actually from Oden's mod. His fast time is a little bit slower, but the weather works pretty great IMHO, I didn't notice any stuttering or anything, and the sense of realism and atmosphere is greatly enhanced when you see a bank of fog rolling in or a thunderstorm creep up and start throwing lightning bolts.

I'm not sure how he did it, but it looks like he has a SQS for the weather and SQF for the fast time, and it would appear his fast time is custom (ie not BIS integrated fast time, which is probably how he got around the stuttering issue as separated them

His artie was good, yours is better. He did implement 2 things which (although unrealistic) did speed up the game: instant fast travel (which should be easy enough to change for my own tweaks), and buying units in a town will spawn them there with you, which is helpful for refilling your ranks when your far away from the MHQ.

Maybe there is a way to do that with yours, not really sure.

[Alexrey 10]

For some reason it never manages to load this map. I waited for it to load the map and after 5 minutes I gave up, it shouldn't take that long. Does anyone know what the problem could possibly be? I'm running Arma II v1.03.

[Proton 11]

greenpsycho: I checked what he did, and you are right: he is using a different function for setting the date. Actually, one of the comments of skipTime in the BIS wiki exactly refers to this:

Ceeeb: In ArmA & OFP, skipTime does not actually estimate weather changes beyond moving the clouds across the sky. Weather counters continue as if no time has passed. The setDate command can be used instead of skiptime to change the time without the visual give-away of the lower clouds jumping.

Well, thats the advantage of being in the ArmA business for a long time (Oden), and not for a month (like me... ;) ) You just learn these tricks.

Expect some thunderstorms in the next release.

---------- Post added at 09:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:02 PM ----------

alexrey: did you download the latest version? The link is in the starting post. The previous version (1.2) did stuck if you were using a non-dedicated server.

[galzohar 31]

When I say RTS, I mean C&C/Red-Alert/Warcraft-like RTS. Which it is, after all, as you get fast money that you use to build units and structures extremely fast.

[Gutm@sher 10]

Thanks Proton. I'll give it a whirl soon. You mentioned oden 3 warfare. I am a big fan of oden's work. the weather effects and airsupport functions are nice but probably the best feature is the variety available. you can have small, medium, large or full map warfare / invasion sessions which are selectable in the lobby. also a nice fast time feature in that night is quicker than day giving the player the variety of fast time without 1/2 the game being with NVGs. Anyone thats interested in warfare gamemode should check it out.

[USMCLuke 10]

The respawn is borked. Most matches you end up in the water at the SW corner of the map. Both factions.