Mouse Lag

[-TwK-Danny 0]

Seriously....

What are you still doing here? I already explained everything there is to know, and showed even game-reviewers have issues with this.

You dont have it? Fine. Good for you. There are tons that do, and reviews stating the same. And BIS is working to fix this for 1.04 patch. If you notice no diffrence with vsync on/off, what are you doing in a thread about mouselag?

Can you please google vsync and mouselag and read up a bit?

[Bulldogs 10]

I understand the difference but without getting into too much detail about it, I have no mouse lag (not even slight) with v-sync on. I know this because I have had as much as 5-15ms mouse lag in other games and it's very noticeable to me, but in Arma 2 I notice none at all.

There is a correlation that no one has mentioned recently. That being the link between max-prerendered frames and mouse lag. Under XP going to 0 max-prerendered frames, in many cases, removes mouse lag for many games, while under Vista it actually creates a mouse lag under many games.

I'm just glad that BIS is working on it to fix it for those who actually have mouse lag, which fortunately isn't everyone.

---------- Post added at 12:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 AM ----------

Another thing I forgot to add. I noticed earlier that some people make the mistake of moving their mouse and watching the gun and thinking they have mouse lag. That's not mouse lag. Move your mouse and watch the cursor.

The gun delay in movement isn't mouse lag it's just you getting your aim. The delay is very slight but that is a realism thing, not mouse lag related unless you are moving your mouse and the cursor (crosshair) isn't moving at the same time.

[private plowjoy 0]

Danny;1407912']What are you still doing here? I already explained everything there is to know' date=' and showed even game-reviewers have issues with this.

You dont have it? Fine. Good for you. There are tons that do, and reviews stating the same. And BIS is working to fix this for 1.04 patch. If you notice no diffrence with vsync on/off, what are you doing in a thread about mouselag?

Can you please google vsync and mouselag and read up a bit?[/quote']

Yeah, absolutely. You 'explained' that some people don't get it because they're 'slow'.

You explained that even though I run with V-Sync ON, i'm too 'slow' to notice the difference.

Yep. Absolutely. I mean, i've only been PC gaming for the last 19 years, so it's all down to me being 'slow'.

[-TwK-Danny 0]

Yeah, absolutely. You 'explained' that some people don't get it because they're 'slow'.

You explained that even though I run with V-Sync ON, i'm too 'slow' to notice the difference.

Yep. Absolutely. I mean, i've only been PC gaming for the last 19 years, so it's all down to me being 'slow'.

I explained what Vsync does and how it delays input. Since you still refused to believe that it causes input lag, i asked you to google it since there are unlimited of threads of people that do notice how Vsync causes lag.

Now if you do not notice anything, then it is you that is too slow to notice the diffrence. Or your hardware (refreshrate+LCD monitor responsetime and inputlag, mouselag (regular 8ms mice)) is already so delayed that the extra delay vsync causes is just a small % of the delay you already experience.

I mean the diffrence could be you having a system like this:

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/inputlag/longlag.png

with me having a system like this:

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/inputlag/bestcase.png

As you can tell, Vsync will have a bigger % change for me than it would for you.

Still, there are many that have mouselag - no doubt about this. You can go on and on about how your system is magic and you do not notice any diffrence whatsoever. Point still stands - people have issues with input lag, BIS is trying to work out a fix, and you are here trying to tell everyone they are wrong.

[private plowjoy 0]

Danny;1408004']I explained what Vsync does and how it delays input. Since you still refused to believe that it causes input lag' date=' i asked you to google it since there are unlimited of threads of people that do notice how Vsync causes lag.

Now if [b']you[/b] do not notice anything, then it is you that is too slow to notice the diffrence. Or your hardware (refreshrate+LCD monitor responsetime and inputlag, mouselag (regular 8ms mice)) is already so delayed that the extra delay vsync causes is just a small % of the delay you already experience.

I mean the diffrence could be you having a system like this:

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/inputlag/longlag.png

with me having a system like this:

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/inputlag/bestcase.png

As you can tell, Vsync will have a bigger % change for me than it would for you.

Still, there are many that have mouselag - no doubt about this. You can go on and on about how your system is magic and you do not notice any diffrence whatsoever. Point still stands - people have issues with input lag, BIS is trying to work out a fix, and you are here trying to tell everyone they are wrong.

And yet, BIS haven't actually said that they've identified or even been able to reproduce the issue. So how are they working on a fix?

[rowdied 44]

ZERO mouse lag on all 4 systems of mine. I play other shooters such as R6V1&2, GRAW1&2, L4D, Killing floor, CODWAW... just to name a few and all my mice move EXACTLY the same in all above games. 4 other people (much younger than me) I regularly play with also experience zero lag and one plays on a workstation dedicated to 3dstudio max and other related software.

I am old but not slow so please dont' say my age makes me not notice the delay. It's insulting to say the least.

It is nice to see that BIS is working on something to help those that experience lag. Let's hope they don't turn this into a twitch shooter.

[Leopardi 0]

ZERO mouse lag on all 4 systems of mine. I play other shooters such as R6V1&2, GRAW1&2, L4D, Killing floor, CODWAW... just to name a few and all my mice move EXACTLY the same in all above games. 4 other people (much younger than me) I regularly play with also experience zero lag and one plays on a workstation dedicated to 3dstudio max and other related software.

I am old but not slow so please dont' say my age makes me not notice the delay. It's insulting to say the least.

It is nice to see that BIS is working on something to help those that experience lag. Let's hope they don't turn this into a twitch shooter.

If you have no lag at all, how does it make the game a twitch shooter if the patch fixes it so that everyone has no lag at all?

[Bulldogs 10]

I think he's just worried that bis may remove the gun weight simulation (that's not the mouse lag, it's the gun and internal crosshair not keeping up with the external cRosshair), getting rid of that would make it a twitch shooter.

Anyways, the arguement seems moot. All we're saying is that many people are effected by mouse lag (I've seen the YouTube videos) and I know that in a multitude of places that vsync causes mouse lag (5 years as a 3d animator/designer gave me an eye to notice it)

But I also know that not everyone is effected by mouse lag. Technically there is a slight delay with any mouse but this is due to refresh time on the mouse as well as USB transfer time and computer bus/processing time. That said, in ideal conditions no human is able to notice it, but in Non-ideal conditions an extra delay is added making it noticeable.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Bulldogs

[EricM 0]

I never experienced the Mouselag myself and thought it was due to people not being used to the weight of the gun or fee float, but seeing the video of the OP it seems indeed very incapacitating for those who suffer from it.

[bluesteel 0]

For anyone who still has problems with mouselag, make sure you disable V-sync in your graphics driver.

For NVIDIA card owners who followed the tweak to set the amount of "Maximum pre-rendered frames" to 8: Set this to 1 and try again.

Setting this to 8 means that the CPU is allowed to prepare 8 frames in a queue before the graphics card actually renders them. If your framerate is 30fps, you introduce a delay of max 267ms or 1/4 second between your mouse movements and a response onscreen. If your framerate is 60fps, you still have max 133ms delay. That is more than a tenth of a second, which should be easily noticable by most gamers.

I'm playing with disabled V-Sync and pre-rendered frames at 1, and have little to no mouselag, even at low framerates around 30fps.

[Alex72 1]

Good tips BlueSteel.

For me it was enough (i didnt really have mouselag though) to set the Pre Render Frames to "1" wich made it very responsive. I run 1024x768 wich is a very low resolution and ofcourse that gives me a lot of FPS, but i just cant go higher as it is now with the gear i have (forests kills it totally over my res). I experience no mouselag except for if i crank resoultion up so my FPS goes down. Then ofcourse i see some lag wich is normal.

AMD X2 6000+ @ 3.5ghz

Nvidia 8800GTS 320MB

2GB Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800mhz

Logitech MX518 mouse (i think this mouse helps actually).

Settings:

All normal except: AA=high, PP=low

Alex

[aikakana 10]

I did not read this thread at all, I read only the other one that discusses about this same problem.

In the first post of this thread it says that changing the process affinity to use only 1 core eliminates this problem, and so it does. (Also set the prerenreder frames to 0 or 1)

With 8 cores (4 with HT) it is horrible, but by disabling HT from BIOS and running Arma2 with 1 core only makes mouse movement perfect. Although FPS will decrease dramatically, it is more playable anyways. 60 FPS with 300ms mouse lag vs 25 FPS with no mouse lag, the latter is much much better.

Edit: I updated this info to http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/3081 too. I hope BIS will check it when fixing this issue.

Edited August 18, 2009 by aikakana

[Leopardi 0]

I did not read this thread at all, I read only the other one that discusses about this same problem.

In the first post of this thread it says that changing the process affinity to use only 1 core eliminates this problem, and so it does. (Also set the prerenreder frames to 0 or 1)

With 8 cores (4 with HT) it is horrible, but by disabling HT from BIOS and running Arma2 with 1 core only makes mouse movement perfect. Although FPS will decrease dramatically, it is more playable anyways. 60 FPS with 300ms mouse lag vs 25 FPS with no mouse lag, the latter is much much better.

please BIS notice this so you can fix the problem...

[someboy 0]

It didn't fix it for me.

[aikakana 10]

It didn't fix it for me.

Oh, I was already pretty certain that this would be the one and only fix to completely get rid of it. For me it worked 100%, no mouse lag at all, just as playing any other first person shooter..

I guess it would be good to gather up specs of those computers that has no lag with 1 core and those that still has. I bet it would help BIS to figure out what is causing this.

With 1 core no lag: Intel i7 920, EX58-UD3R, ATI HD4890 1GB, 6GB ram.

Hyper threading ON:

1 core: slight lag

2 cores: starting to be unplayable

4 cores: a pain

Hyper threading OFF:

1 core: PERFECT

2 cores: playable, but hitting 2 targets in a row becomes difficult

4 cores: a pain

I had the prerendered frames 0 all the time.

I would love to know the reason for this bug, how can it be so hard to get real time mouse & keyboard data to the game engine, I don't get it. :confused:

PS. It's easier to disable cores from BIOS than modifying the process affinity. It might be that changing affinity from the Task Manager won't apply the changes in some cases.. I'm just hoping so much this affinity thing would fix the lag in every computer so that it would be easier for BIS to pinpoint it..

Edited August 18, 2009 by aikakana

[Greg 0]

Did the beta patch, sans mouse smoothing, fix mouse lag for you?

[p75 10]

Just tried the BETA and it induces mouselag, they apperently removed the smoothing option, test the BETA and it can get worse, I have no problems running the normal release.

[aikakana 10]

EDIT: oh, I didn't see there was posts already about this patch, sorry.

A new beta patch has been published. I haven't tested it yet, but will do later today.

There is a command line parameter "cpuCount" that should be tested with value 1 to see if it makes any difference ("cpuCount=1"). I guess it does the same thing as setting the affinity, but we'll see about that.

Edited August 28, 2009 by aikakana

[pauliesss 2]

Just tried the BETA and it induces mouselag, they apperently removed the smoothing option, test the BETA and it can get worse, I have no problems running the normal release.

I have the same problem. Removing of smoothing = problem for me(and not ONLY for me).

[Leopardi 0]

The mouse lag is something CPU related? With Affinity set to 1 the mouselag disappears for many, just like when fiddling the Visibiility higher. And does the game have triple buffering forced on that would also cause mouse lag?

[funkee 0]

a little hope: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=74085&page=30

[IronTrooper 0]

I think the mouse smoothing has very little to do with the mouse lag. The smoothing makes turning around a little slower but keeping the overall response same in all situations (low/high fps), but mouse lag causes a huge delay in the mouse movement while the turn itself may be fast after the delay.

I think the game just needs some more shader optimizations (the overdraw) and it will be alright. I don't have a mouse lag in low reses, just in high ones (even with 45fps or so).

Nevertheless I'll try to play a little with the smoothing values in the config to see if I can get to some compromise.

[ModeZt 0]

Download 1.04 BETA patch here

1.04 BETA patch changelog

your links are outdated. there is a newer version of the beta-patch. goto http://www.arma2.com/beta-patch.php

[Akilez 10]

I just read through this thread and noticed a very interesting post that didn't seem to even be acknowledged. Could this not in fact be a D3D/Rig situation as noted here?:

Link to D3D Article

This BIS bashing and chest pounding is counterproductive and the keyboard bravado not in the least bit impressive. Just because your annoying doesn't mean you're right.

You might recall that the U.S. and Australian militaries use a superset of this code in the form of VBS for their computer trainers so maybe we should take a breath and see what else this might be attributable to. Just a random thought..

Credit: Link originally posted by Whisper in this thread.

.

.

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Edited August 30, 2009 by Akilez
Correct credit line...tx Whisper

[thomas82 10]

i also have mouselaag..

same goes for movement; when i press "A" it takes 0.5s until the soldiermodel is moving to the left.. => impossible to play CQB