Devastation: mission pack. Team vs Team.

stribog · July 15, 2009

Greetings from Russian community!

Excuse for my English) )

At game when players more than 10 terrible logs are observed, menus open very long, at respawn some minutes it is necessary to wait, as and at a weapon choice. Our opinion - it is necessary to clean many scripts, they practically are not necessary in game.

The general recommendations about a mode -

The interface - to clean the majority of scripts working of the menu. Command menus (squads), and possibility to put a point and markers are necessary there as a rule only. All the rest dont work also is not necessary, and only loads mission. To clean a quality configuration, it is better to make it in the menu of start of mission. All it should promote as also the general productivity and kill lags in missions.

The weapon and whales - whales get out at an input in game. The equipment is enough to assign to them. The choice menu in weapon game - search, at least in such kind as now.

Respawn and teleportation - teleportation to clean. It is not entered at all in idea of a mode. To increase time respawn the player and technicians. Mobile respawns to clean, search and all the same practically they are not used.

Gameplay - to improve serial system of capture of points. (analog from PR) to Make of a card on 48 still same but with quantity 64 (in the future it is possible and 128) to Add armor for both teams and attack heli to russians like mi-24

We are ready and to play much further devastaion, but it is necessary to make missions with possibility to play at a considerable quantity of players without lags.

With the best regards, the leader of community VZVOD

Edited July 27, 2009 by stribog

alan.rio · February 1, 2009

Ok, I have tried to interpret your post, I tried my best as I'm sure you did with english. I think i fixed most of it. If it is possible could you get a friend who speaks better english to translate it your message? If not could you send me a russian copy and I will get my russian speaking friend to translate it for us.

Terrible lags when over 10 players.

Menus work slowly.

Respawn delayed??

Weapon selection delay???

Our opinion - it is necessary to clean many scripts, they practically are not necessary in game. (No change, readable enough)

The interface - to clean the majority of scripts working of the menu. (No change, readable enough)

Command menus (squads), and possibility to put a point and marckers are necessary there as a rule only. (Not sure what you mean, I think you mean you want these to stay?)

All the rest dont work also is not necessary, and only loads mission. To clean a quality configuration, it is better to make it in the menu of start of mission. All it should promote as also the general productivity and kill lags in missions. (Dump the rest or make it optional?)

The weapon and whales - whales get out at an input in game. The equipment is enough to assign to them. The choice menu in weapon game - search, at least in such kind as now.

( I think your translation program may have failed here, a whale is a large sea mammal! No idea what you mean here. Something to do with too many options in the weapons selection screen?)

Respawn and teleportation - teleportation to clean. It is not entered at all in idea of a mode. (No idea what you mean, sorry!) To increase time respawn the player and technicians. (increase respawn time?) Mobile respawns to clean, search and all the same practically they are not used. (remove the mobile respawn as it is not used?)

Gameplay - to improve serial system of capture of points. (analog from PR) to Make of a card on 48 still same but with quantity 64 (in the future it is possible and 128) to Add on the big cards a heavy armour for both parties and helicopters Russian.

(By cards i think you mean maps? You want the same maps to have different versions that have different numbers of players and vehicles like PR?)

We are ready and to play much further devastaion, but it is necessary to make missions with possibility to play at a considerable quantity of players without lags. (readable)

With the best regards, the leader of community VZVOD

Also, I think some of the items you mentioned in this post were fixed in the last version 0.3. Are you using 0.3?

stribog · July 15, 2009

send me a russian copy and I will get my russian speaking friend to translate it for us.

Russian:

alan.rio · February 1, 2009

Thank you, I sent it to my friend but he's on holidays, he will translate it soon. in any case here is the translation from google translate.

"When the number of players over 10 are beginning terribly rebate scripts, everything is done with the delays in minutes ... For example, I pointed out respauna point and wait for a few minutes ... Or trying to choose a weapon, the same thing. Urgent record and remove unneeded menus and scripts!

General recommendations on the treatment -

Interface - remove most of the scripts from the menu. We need it as a rule only the menu commands (skvada), and the ability to put points and designators. Everything else neigrabelno and it is not necessary, and only loads the mission. Remove the configuration of quality, it is better to do so in the start menu missii.Vse it should help as well and the overall productivity and ubiraniyu lags in the missions.

Arms and the whales - the whales are selected at the entrance to the game. Enough to give them equipment. Menu choice of weapons in the game-bust, at least in this form as it is now. When you visit, such as doctor, I can immediately take a machine gun, grenade launcher, etc.. It turns out that all the running around with bazookas.

Respaun and teleportation, teleportation removed. Most do not fit into the idea rezhima.Sovsem not realistic, and simplifies the game-type weapons can be based and Teleport place. Increase time respauna players and technology. Mobile Rep. remove, redundancy, and still they are not nearly ispolzuyutsya.My for example, they do not use, there is rallipointy the commander and deployed outposts (fayerbazy)

Gameplay - to improve the system of rotating the capture points. (Analogy of the OL) Make a card at 48 still the same but with the number 64 (in the future, and 128) Add on the large maps on Everest for both sides, and Russian helicopters. (MI-24)

Version 0.3, we played one of the first), Australia in nearly a time zone with the Far East."

I don't know why it keeps coming up with whales?!

---------- Post added at 07:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:22 AM ----------

Incidentally one of stribog's suggestions mirriors the one I would like to propose, I would like it if the view distance and terrain detail were set for all players, by admin, on the role selection screen. Having a PvP match where some will have the grass on, and others will have the grass off and an extended view distance is very unfair.

galzohar · June 3, 2009

For infantry at least view distance is really just for looks. You will not see a man beyond a few hundred meters without some magnifying optics, and you will not see any object beyond 2000m even with 10k view distance. So there's no real unfair advantage here unless you're playing with view distances in the hundreds, in which case you need a new computer (or live with the disadvantage).

alan.rio · February 1, 2009

True about the view distance, if people realize that the option is there to change it. The point about the grass is the main one really, either have it off (ugghhh) for everyone or on for everyone, not have half the guys not changing it and leaving it at default and the other half switching it off. It would also be one less thing in the menu.

diraven · June 8, 2009

Here is the readable translation. %)

----------------8<-----------------------------------------------------------------------8<---------------------------

Bugs:

With the big amount of users scripts permanently lagging, everything goes with the delays of one minute and more. People have to wait couple of minutes after weapon selection. We are suggesting to remove unnecessary scripts and stuff, because this issue should be fixed asap.

General ideas about the gamemode:

Interface:

Most of the menu actions are not necessary. Only those related to the squad and marker placement are needed. The rest is unplayable and not needed. Fewer things you use - less lags you get.

Weapons and kits:

They should be taken only when player enters the game. Weapon menu should not be available. At least with the abilities it have now. For example player can be medic and get a machinegun. As the result - everyone uses heavy AT and as a result heavy armor absolutely looses it's tactical meaning and scaryness =).

Respawn and teleportation:

Teleportation should be removed at all. It makes the game too unrealistic and simplifies it. For example you can take any weapon you want at the main base and teleport wherever you want. Player should make his choice - spawn on the firebase with the equipment he have or spawn at main, get all equipment he wants, but longer way to the frontline.

The spawn times for players and vehicles should be higher aswell. Mobile respawns should be removed awell. They mostly not used. Players have rallies and firabases. This is more then enoug.

Gameplay:

- Make 64-players maps. In the nearest future there is a sense to make one or two 128 players. Just to check how it works.

- On the big maps russian choppers should be added (like mi-24 or ka-52).

- Heavy armor should be added to the both sides to make tactical abilities wider.

We have played the 0.3 right after it's release. Our time belt is almost the same as Australian.

----------------8<-----------------------------------------------------------------------8<---------------------------

And some ideas from myself:

Don't hesitate to use high respawn times for both players and vehicles. From my experience of playing such tactical games:

1. Respawn for air assault vehicles like attack choppers, jets and so on should be 1hr and higher.

2. Respown times for heavy armored vehicles should be the same or about 40 mins.

3. Transporting vehicles should have respawn about 10-20 minutes.

According to the fact that not everyone likes hardcore gamemodes the best decision will be moving these settings (respown times, teleport availability, mobile respawn availability and so on) to the separate file, so everyone will be able to customize mission "hardcoreness" according to his demands.

As for lags and scripts - try to implement those ideas one by one, not the whole bunch at a time.

Still awesome work done! I am still very interested in it's improvements and future development. =)

Thanks a lot for your answer and attention to this post.

Edited July 28, 2009 by DiRaven

stribog · July 15, 2009

The theme has died? :-)

wormeaten · January 31, 2009

Is there enyone playing this anymore at all?

galzohar · June 3, 2009

I don't see it running on any populated server. Then again the only thing I see running on populated servers is berserk and even that only has 1-2 populated servers most of the time.

dr_eyeball · December 17, 2005

I'm pretty happy with the way v0.3 is already performing. Apart from the minor bugs fixed in the upcoming v0.4, I'm not aware of any major issues preventing the game mode being played as it is now. (If I've missed critical ones, let me know.) The beta status could be a deterring factor. I was delaying going to the full version 2.0 until the manual was completed plus more missions created.

Why are servers still running old versions?

As of today, the latest version is version 0.3.

I'm shocked to see a couple servers still using v0.1 and a large portion of the servers are running v0.2 still. But only a few are running v0.3.

Ver 0.3 is the only version which contains the critical performance fixes. Without those fixes, the mission becomes unplayable over a long duration.

Quick update:

There are some simple but nice changes being made and added in the next version. Details next time. Updates are slower now since times are busy. There should be 1 update this week sometime. There won't be huge changes but they will be useful.

@stribog #98: There is currently 1 heavy armour mission planned which will be based in the North-West area around the main airport, which doesn't have too much forest making it a suitable region.

@DiRaven #99: A Multi language support task is lodged. It will be delayed probably until after v2.0 at this stage, until the core game mode is fully fixed. (I've PM'd you previously.)

However, I don't know what to do about the English sound files (which are included in the mission). Does anyone know if there was a way to access the Arma 2 dubbing pbo sound files directly from the mission itself? This wasn't possible in Arma 1 and the Arma 2 structure is slightly different.

@sirex #120:

1. Triple container issue: Will investigate.

2. Airlift M2 on truck bug: Will fix that. Never played Pavlovo yet.

3. There are no motorbikes in Devastation. Will investigate the invisible camo net.

It may be getting displaced underground, or if the camo is destroyed due to collision (eg: with a nearby vehicle), it will collapse, then reappear about 1.5 minutes later. If the vehicle is still there, it may then collapse again.

4. Floating M2: That would be same as #2 above.

5. Fragile trucks: that's just Arma's characteristics.

6. Feint circle markers: I would prefer to remove the flashing altogether. Ver 0.4 will have HUD icons for capture status, plus the scoreboard already shows the capture status too.

7. 'Taken Alpha' sounds: Message is slightly different. The inner zone includes the word 'base' in the message. In ver 0.4 that has changed to 'bunker'.

8. Indestructible container: True, the containers (and many other useful objects) are unfortunately indestructible. The current method to destroy one is via the action 'Destroy container' to burn it. Working on trying to simulate the destruction. To destroy the FOB itself, you need to destroy one of the crates until it catches fire.

9. Available kits: In ver 0.3, Black Forest had a bug where only the crewman and rifleman kits were available, which is fixed in v0.4. Seems fine beyond that. Report again if not. Eg: Sniper should be available for every 6 players on your side.

10. Ride on top of AAV's: Optional new features won't be implemented during these early days. If I see servers fill to 40 players, I'll re-evaluate.

@[RIP] Alan.rio #121:

Working on reducing RP radius checks from 20m to 10m for now, with proper 1m checks being worked on.

@Kremator #125:

There are plans to totally redo the Team Status dialog, since it's useful for multiple projects too, but that's a long term task.

@stribog #126:

A little hard to interpret parts of that post.

1. Those lag issues (large delays) when using dialogs were well known in version 0.1/0.2 but should have been fixed in version 0.3. Could you first confirm that you were using v0.3? Post #132 suggests you did, but we've used over 20 players without those specific problems, so I am sceptical about this. (The scripts are not the cause of the problem. It's simply due to Arma2's odd new script execution processing.)

2a. I might be able to prevent medic class from selecting a heavy weapon loadout since they already have a role.

2b. The bug with starting load outs will be addressed under the task Slot kit used. It seems players often start with the slot kit, which includes AT or MG which is unbalancing it.

2c. Light AT kits are restricted to 1 in 4 players along with group size restrictions. Heavy AT is restricted to 1 in 6 players. I'll increase these values to 6 for LAT and 8 for HAT.

3. Respawning/teleporting: Not sure what is being suggested. I can't totally remove teleporting, otherwise 90% of players wouldn't play it. The type and number of respawning assets will be scaled better according to mission size and theme in future.

4. Scaled mission sizes for the same base mission/theme would be nice to have. 128 players is wishful thinking for this engine. I think the task would be too large at this early stage. Regarding the Russian armour and helicopters, there are 2 fairly large upcoming missions suited for both themes. Plus existing large missions will now include a minimum of 1 armour vehicle.

@[RIP] Alan.rio #129:

I will probably remove the Terrain Detail adjustment options and make them the same for all - grass on always.

View Distance is already limited to a suitable value. I definitely do not want to force players to play at high view distance settings if their computers cannot handle it, especially in urban combat. We could however scale the maximum allowable view distance based on mission size and area (eg: for urban combat it could be lowered.)

@DiRaven #132:

Thanks for the translation.

1. I think those suggested respawn values are too high, especially for the basic transportation vehicles, since that problem is reduced by having the base far away from the sectors. The mission has to work on a public server too. Jets and attack choppers are set to 12 minutes currently. Increasing them to 60 minutes would be too high, but they could be increased a little more.

Difficulty:

There are several suggestions above to make the game-play much more difficult. Eg: markers, GPS, equipment, teleporting, respawn times. That could be achieved through the MP Setup Parameters and will be considered, but it won't be the default.

Missions too big (or even too small)?

I'm not exactly sure why people say Devastation missions are too big. They are only too big if there are insufficient players and getting 20 players is pretty easy.

This is how the concept works:

- the primary focus is generally between 2 sectors at any given time, not 6.

- the distance to the sectors from the base is significant. This means you have to simply set up any of the available spawn points (eg: FOB, rally point, MRV) which then forms your frontline, which is around 200m from the boundary.

Now all the action is in the one area with minimal travel. If a team is silly enough not to set up this frontline, then of course it will be too big to handle, therefore set up and protect your frontline.

People are missing the big picture here on several fronts. The only reason this mission is being created is for large scale combat. Apart from CTI, there are no other TvT game modes that work well with high player numbers where the excess players don't simply clog up the combat.

Plus using small maps means the game-play will definitely change and suffer for it. I regret releasing the Docks mission now for the same reason and may remove it. That mission is not indicative of the true game mode.

My story:

My old clan had several members who spent months trying to get people to play PR, since we already recognised it's value years ago. It took months and a lot of convincing to get people to even try it out initially and then finally to get them joining regularly. Now the servers are full to capacity every night and I can't even join any more.

Nothing changed from the time that we started promoting it to the time where it became popular except that it became popular and familiar. Players simply became aware of the rules, the teamwork requirements and the team goal of winning overall. The same situation appears to be happening again.

galzohar · June 3, 2009

Like many other missions, I was finding myself holding down my forward key quite a lot.

kremator · June 8, 2007

Thanks for the feedback Dr Eyeball. Watching this one closely :)

alan.rio · February 1, 2009

I will attempt to fly the flag for devastation game again on our server, i haven't had much time to play ArmA the last few weeks, we are finding it very hard to fill the server when we run the game mode, and when we do fill it we seem to end up with a load of rambo's who don't want to play properly. Every man and his dog wants to be a sniper, or fly a chopper, with no interest in playing as an infantry squad, that goes for every game-mode in arma.... When they don't get it then they just move on. Perhaps we can organize events so that we all end up on one server at the same time to have a large number of players on one server who know what they are doing? Not locked or anything, just a night where all of us go play a game of devastation, if we can convert a 2-3 other players every-time by letting them see what a good game-mode it is then we are on the right track.

stribog · July 15, 2009

On our server of mission devastation in the fixed list. Unfortunately, at a considerable quantity of players delays of scripts begin. We play often 5-10 players. It is not enough for devastation. Many players still badly understand a mode. As was with Project Reality when that.

galzohar · June 3, 2009

Alan.rio;1391628']...we are finding it very hard to fill the server when we run the game mode' date=' and when we do fill it we seem to end up with a load of rambo's who don't want to play properly. Every man and his dog wants to be a sniper, or fly a chopper, with no interest in playing as an infantry squad, that goes for every game-mode in arma.... [/quote']
That usually points at the mission(s) needing lots of tweaking, and less at poor players. You can't expect people to agree being a rifleman when you can only really kill stuff as a cobra pilot or sniper. Play with no crosshairs and make some CQB capability requirement to win, and suddenly a rifleman becomes so much more important. Disable personal score and all of a sudden people don't care so much about kills and rather work toward capping stuff to actually win rather than look for a way to get the most kills. Make it easier to get to objectives (by either placing them close enough or supplying sufficient transportation) and you stop having people ragequit after they ran around for 5 minutes just to get sniped and have to do it all over again, and after a few of those go see a doctor because their fingers are messed up from holding the "forward" key.

In short, I wouldn't jump to blaming the players.

diraven · June 8, 2009

On our server of mission devastation in the fixed list. Unfortunately, at a considerable quantity of players delays of scripts begin. We play often 5-10 players. It is not enough for devastation. Many players still badly understand a mode. As was with Project Reality when that.

Nice idea. I will support it. Have no time for now to organize something like this, but will join the battle if any as fast as I get the license.

@DiRaven #99: A Multi language support task is lodged. It will be delayed probably until after v2.0 at this stage, until the core game mode is fully fixed. (I've PM'd you previously.)

However, I don't know what to do about the English sound files (which are included in the mission). Does anyone know if there was a way to access the Arma 2 dubbing pbo sound files directly from the mission itself? This wasn't possible in Arma 1 and the Arma 2 structure is slightly different.

@DiRaven #132:

Thanks for the translation.

1. I think those suggested respawn values are too high, especially for the basic transportation vehicles, since that problem is reduced by having the base far away from the sectors. The mission has to work on a public server too. Jets and attack choppers are set to 12 minutes currently. Increasing them to 60 minutes would be too high, but they could be increased a little more.

Just keep in mind my suggestion about the separate mission sqf configuration file. Like:

opt_spawntime_transport_wheeled = 60 * 5; // 5 min
opt_spawntime_transport_chopper = 60 * 10; // 10 min
opt_spawntime_assault_armored_light = 60 * 10; // 10 min for jeeps and so on
opt_spawntime_assault_armored_medium = 60 * 15; // 15 min for apcs
opt_spawntime_assault_armored_heavy = 60 * 40; // 40 min for tanks
opt_spawntime_assault_chopper = 60 * 60; // 40 min for tanks

opt_switch_firebase = FALSE; // Firebases are not available
opt_switch_rally = FALSE; // Rallies are not available
opt_switch_mobile_respawn = FALSE; // Mobile respawns are not available
opt_switch_teleport = FALSE; // Teleports are not available

And so on. This is an example. Default values can be whatever you want. Just let the community to change this values relatively to the demand of the certain server. So there can be either easy-to-play public servers and hardcore teamplay-demanding servers running your awesome missions.

Hardcore settings like unavailable teleports brings some known teamwork-related issues. But this can be easily resolved with the careful administration of the server and little enhancements of the mission in future to disallow new/noobie players entering/using expensive and rare vehicles like tanks or assault choppers.

I am ready to translate the mission as fast you are ready.

n.sipher · June 2, 2009

dDont know if there is only my server that behaves like this but when trying to play the Devestation on my dedicated server all users get an error trying to connect .

the error is saying:

"You cannot Play/edit this mission; it is dependent on downloadable content that has been deleted. sen_weapons

is there something else i need to download to be able to play the mission `??

thank you.

looks awsome.

dr_eyeball · December 17, 2005

sen_weapons is an addon. It is not related to or required by Devastation.

You can obtain a clean version of Devastation from the downloads.

It would seem you have a modified copy which includes unnecessary addons, since the addon only affects AI and these missions do not use AI. If this is the case, the mission title and file names would normally be changed to indicate this clearly.

kremator · June 8, 2007

dDont know if there is only my server that behaves like this but when trying to play the Devestation on my dedicated server all users get an error trying to connect .
the error is saying:

"You cannot Play/edit this mission; it is dependent on downloadable content that has been deleted. sen_weapons

is there something else i need to download to be able to play the mission `??

thank you.

looks awsome.

You can still play it however even with this error ?

This is a carry-over from A1 that some addons would place themselves into mission requirements.

n.sipher · June 2, 2009

FIXED...

Another server admin had installed Sentinel weapons addon. deleted it and then it works.

Edited August 7, 2009 by n.sipher

stribog · July 15, 2009

n.sipher- its ok))))))

stribog · July 15, 2009

It is a pity that the project has stopped.... The Dear developer probably has no time to be engaged now? We have very liked devastation

alan.rio · February 1, 2009

We've been playing it regularly on our server this week, and are waiting for the 4th installment, i'm sure he's not finished yet, there is a lot of activity on the dev haven page!

Edited August 10, 2009 by [RIP] Alan.rio

diraven · June 8, 2009

Downloaded and testing v. 0.4. Waitng for changelog. =))

Devastation: mission pack. Team vs Team.

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