respawn, be or not to be?

[swe 10]

Does anyone know a server there there is no respawn?

That would make this game really intresting. Ofcourse there would be more camping, but a nice mission can make that pariah. After you got fraged you turn into that bird so you can watch the battlefield?

Or if the devs could fix an inbuilt mechanism that let dead players kill ant talk to eachother on some simple map :)

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

Respawn is set up by missions, not by the server. So basicly you'll have to search for non-respawn missions. Before you ask, I don't know a single one. :)

[swe 10]

That means that the game newer will become big in the international tournament-context, like CS etc. The respawn takes the edge of the real excitabillity for sure, where youre single actions have enourmous implications för youre health. To bad to great game, in my opinion.

[Inkompetent 0]

Uhm... How can OPTIONAL respawns doom the game? The mission-makers decide if to have respawn in a specific mission or not. Sometimes it can bet set up when starting the mission if it should be enabled or not (if the mission is designed so).

It would be like saying BF2 is a terrible game because 'infantry only'-mode isn't feasible on many of the maps, and it CAN be played on all maps (not said that it IS played on most maps)

[Noraf 0]

well, i know sim-hq released a bunsh of missions for armed assault, that had no respawn ( if you turned of the ai ), though, those were coop missions.

Should be easy anough to remove the respawn from missions, if you want to host them on your own server though. just un pbo the mission, edit the description.ext ( correct me if i'm wrong though ) to have no respawn, remember to put no respawn @ the end of the mission name both in the description.ext, and in the pbo name. repack the file to a .pbo ( and remember to add norespawn before the mapname ( not mission, but map, ie utes.pbo ) )

[Beagle 684]

The best solution for this was "group respawn" in OFP. This made every respawn quite painful because you could only respawn as a surviving member of you group.

It is still in ArmA2, but never used as respawn option.

But: going into battle as tank platoon commander, beeing defeated and respawning as a lonsome Soldier with a M16 and to Magazines in "Warfare" is encouraging enough not to behave suicidal.

[swe 10]

Im not sure that you mean by optional.

And the parable limp on the central issue: when you die you die, everything else is foredoomed to never become big in a competition context. The respawning just makes every round something cyclical. Ofcource there will be clan matches etc in arma2, but never any money os serious structures involved.

It doesent matter for me personally, but its always fun to watch the elit play live. :)

[CrazyIvan007 10]

This is odd...everytime I pick "respawn" I simply turn into that stupid bird. By "RESPAWN" are you guys saying you can come back as a soldier and continue fighting? And, is this just an AI controlled soldier that you are taking over, or does a new soldier appear on the map out of thin air that you can then control? Please explain. Thanks.

[Beagle 684]

This is odd...everytime I pick "respawn" I simply turn into that stupid bird. By "RESPAWN" are you guys saying you can come back as a soldier and continue fighting? And, is this just an AI controlled soldier that you are taking over, or does a new soldier appear on the map out of thin air that you can then control? Please explain. Thanks.

All kinds of respawn are possible in ArmA Mission.

It's just that most mission maker prefer a delayedt base respawn

there is:

no respawn

bird respawn

in group respawn

base respawn

etc.

[swe 10]

respawn is verry unrealistic and it ruins the game to an extent. I must agree, even though i think the gameplay is great.

[Slyder73 10]

respawn is verry unrealistic and it ruins the game to an extent. I must agree, even though i think the gameplay is great.

Realistically, there would be more than 18 or 30 soldiers in an area as large as portrayed in the Arma2 map/missions. Servers cannot handle that, so the only way to represent those other manpower elements is to have respawn.

There is nothing IMO wrong with respawn if it is done well, or credibly.

Running out of players is no way to lose a mission, far more fun and credible gameplay wise to lose to a better team or not win because the team can't communicate well enough to overcome the AI or human opponents.

[swe 10]

Is running out of players no way to loose a mission? eh..?

If there where no respawn, communication would be maybe to central for public, but as we have seen in for exampel CS, teamplay grow up on public servers (but mostly on clan servers) anyhow (if no respawn).

One thing is for certain in ArmA 2: teamplay is mostly fun, not effective (unless you organize full scale all over the map contemporary). The most effektive way to win in arma2 is hobbes everybodys fight against everybody (competition of whom get the best stats (this is the same logic as why the the markets should be free) ): and maybe it shuld be called laissez faire-tactic :). Everybodys own hunt for personal utility (greed) by fragging the shit out of the opposing team is way more effective. It for example me and a group guards a flag with solid taktics (which involve mines, anti-tanks etc..), ok, we can resist a m1a2 once, but when the tanks come back (after respawn), we are out of mines and RPGs (and he knows aprox where we are and out tactics). That is the tragic with respawn.

A better tactic is to run around in the heaviest tank/airplane/heli and shot everything you se. Tactics have never been actual in respawn-games. Ask old CS-players like me.

In Battlefield 2, COD4, arma 2 etc, the best strategy is just to run around and kill as manny as you can untill you win. If you get shot, just respawn.

I agree that teamplay is much more fun in games like ArmA though (thats why i play and love it).

[Red_Barron 0]

I agree that teamplay is much more fun in games like ArmA though (thats why i play and love it).

And that my friend, is the crux of your original question. Yes, since OFP there has been the option to have missions that have no respawn, limited respawn, unlimited respawn etc. It is no different for Arma2. However, what you are looking for are people that play missions where there is no respawn.

They exist, but for the most part you will not find them on public servers.

I would suggest you find a group to play with that shares your thoughts on what makes Arma2 fun. I've been away for the last month on military business and away from the internet, but last I heard Tactical Gamer was still up and running. They are one of the few public groups that play no respawn missions. There are more out there, if you have the "Google skizillz," but that might be the place to start.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Zeus regularly play no respawn missions.

Kind regards walker

[Inkompetent 0]

Quite a good in-between option in my eyes is 'limited team respawn' which gives the best of both worlds. I.e. your team has X numbers of respawns available. Die too much and your team will run out of respawns before the enemy team does, and you'll lose. However it still has *some* respawning, so if you die early you'll get at least one more chance.

I personally enjoy all kinds: no respawn, limited respawn, unlimited respawn. It simply depends on how the mission is made.

And swe, you CONSTANTLY talk like ArmA2 = unlimited respawn. That's 99% wrong, since it all varies with the missions.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Although I like to play some no respawn missions from time to time, I usually find myself with too few players to warrant this. So I prefer respawn. However, most missions are setup with near insta respawn. This means there is basically no penalty for getting killed, and hence, you don't have to be careful. And we all know what kind of gameplay this produces.

No respawn doesn't make sense for long persistant missions. Only small objectives.

[swe 10]

incompetent:

ok, arma 2 is not only respawn. But on all the servers i have played, there is respawn within 12 seconds. Jump upp in a vehicle and stepp on as hard as you can to get back to the massacre:(

When you talk about mission, what då refer to?

Arma is a game where a team plays against a nother team. Kill each other, hold an area och take the flag, that is basic mulriplayer game; then you talk about mission it sounds verry much single player.

[Jacouille 0]

What I miss the most in Arma is the ability to have WAVE respawn.

This mean that, when a player is killed, he will have to wait until a definend number of player get killed too. When this number is reached, all the dead players will respawn at the same time, IMHO best way to keep teamwork alive.

I am almost thinking of posting a dedicated topic to ask BI for this feature which I think would be very useful.

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

respawn is verry unrealistic and it ruins the game to an extent. I must agree, even though i think the gameplay is great.

Nahhh not again this u-word :rolleyes: It's game!

I've been playing the Bohemia saga since 2001 and I crossed every kind of respawn ... "every" standard solution sucks because:

no respawn --> people gets frustrated who die fast ingame, always crying for restart, very long coop matches are almost impossible to play

group respawn --> quiet ok, yet it delays the problem

base respawn --> seems pretty ok in the first place if you'll have to start your mission from the pre-placed base all over again ... but this could mean very long walking distances

instant respawn --> sucks because mostly you'll get killed over and over again when you die at a bad position

all respawn types --> you lose all your weapons, body remains and will cause lags after XX respawns

That's why the ofp/arma/arma2 scripter developted their own ways ... for example the revive script made by norrin limits the amout of respawn that is avaible to the player. If you have no more "lives" you're dead forever. It also fixes the problem of losing your weapon and clears the old body (if you wish). So it ensures good performance too. If you wish you can even set up a mobile respawn. It may not be ultra-realistic but it's a good compromise between realistic and enjoyable mp sessions.

[Inkompetent 0]

swe, you shouldn't be angry at the game or the makers of it for that server admins choose to run maps with unlimited respawns. Be angry at the server admins instead ;)

[swe 10]

ok the "unrealistic"-word is crap, i agree. But i really think that the respawn-option ruins the game. A battle is a battle; a battle is not an cyclical battle where the whole idea of planing tactics is useless. There is the analogue to the "unrealistic" i was talking about. With respawn the strategy turns into adam smiths invisible hand.

The no-respawn-game has also proven to be the only possible feature when it comes to a competition context (exactly because of the impact of strategy/game plan.

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

Have you at least tried the alternative? I'd like to see your face when playing a non respawn mission and you'll get killed in the first few minutes :p What are you doing then?

I understand what you're trying to say. But did you understand my words too? :)

[galzohar 31]

Having no respawns requires a very specialized mission design. It needs to avoid having long waits between rounds and under that limitation maximize its usage of the Arma 2 features. It's far from simple, though AA2/3 is a good example for how it can work (but can be done much better).

Anything "big" on any level will simply not work with no respawns unless you're making a full scale fully realistic war simulation mission, but then the majority (or all) your players will not enjoy it, AND you will have at least as many difficulties as the first option. Therefore most mission designers just pass on the full realism so they can make something of big scale that will work without it being impossible or "only" way too hard.

I would like to see properly designed and realistic no-respawn missions though.

[swe 10]

legislator

yes i understand what you are saying. I play the game everyday, so i experiance what you are saying aswell.

Still, i really miss the no-spawn. I belive that the youngsters that loves runnig around shooting at ppl and stuff, they will not like the no-respawn game. But i hope that clan battles will develop towards no-respawn. Always when i have competed in no-respawn games, i am more nervous efter i have been shot due to my desire to win the round and due to the hope that our tactics eventually will work.

But ofcourse, there is a problem on public if you just let it loose.

More clan-battles, more ladders to climb on.

galzohar, you have many points there.

One other thing with no-respawn is that it by force creates an opportunity to create nice teamplay, that newer would have been invented otherwise.

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

swe, well ... then you should create some non-respawn missions. Basicly I think it's easier in designing than with respawn. You wouldn't have to worry about disappearing briefing entries, JIP and so on. Think about a small story, place some units and define some 1-2 mission objectives and a briefing. You don't need more to start. Build up 5 missions, release them as a package and talk to some server administrators. Maybe they'll set them up for the public/non public.

But keep in mind, if the public doesn't want to play them, the server administrators will most likely not host them. It's all about what the majority wants.