I think only BI can help us now.

[bangtail 0]

A spade is a spade.

Skills and Competence

Coding (and gamedesign) is not some magical monolithic ability that encompasses all type of code works. Some people are better at vector calculations, some make spreadsheets, others even make fun 2d games for cellphones. These all requires different skills. Based on what evidence we've seen; I don't think it is an impossible conclusion that BIS might need some new blood.

Time>Money>Distribution

Of course you pretty much chose to ignore the other option I presented. Namely that the way the software is built up; it would be impractical or even impossible to write or produce a quick fix. This is disappointing, but ultimately a fact of life.

Scope

How is the scope of Arma2 so much greater than other games? Its practically ignored by the majority of mainstream consumers. If you want to see a game of grand scope and inspired design look to titles such as:

- Unreal-series (which managed for some time to become the industry standard for FPS shooters)

- Doom3 (which redefined the way we look at lightning in gaming, delivered blazing performance, and was a very well crafted game to boot)

- Practically any large-scale-MMO* (deal with millions more entities, game balance issues, and more than Arma will EVER encompass. Case study? EVE and WOW)

-MountnBlade (A husband and wife team from Turkey who managed to produce one of the best medieval combat simulators since Diebythesword)

and that's just scratching the surface.

To say that BIS games are 'greater in scope' than other games or genres is to sell the entire industry short. Not to mention downright rude to the people making these games.

-K

---------- Post added at 07:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:18 PM ----------

Bar analogy

Imagine this. On a gloriously hot and sunny day, and you are heading for the nearest Bar. You ask the keeper behind the desk for a wonderful and refreshing Raspberry Mojito!

He replies: I'm sorry friend I don't have the proper ingredients. I could run off across the street and ask my friend (in the other bar) for what I need, but there is a line of people behind you waiting to be served. How about a ice cold Tequila Sunrise instead?

OR

He replies: I'm sorry there, but I've never heard of that drink. How about I make you a Caipirinha instead?

In one case he lacked the competence, in the other he lacked the hardware.

-K (Jesus would have been proud)

Doom 3 and Unreal? You don't have a clue do you! Just move on and play something else.

Sheesh!

Eth

[no use for a name 0]

A spade is a spade.

Skills and Competence

Coding (and gamedesign) is not some magical monolithic ability that encompasses all type of code works. Some people are better at vector calculations, some make spreadsheets, others even make fun 2d games for cellphones. These all requires different skills. Based on what evidence we've seen; I don't think it is an impossible conclusion that BIS might need some new blood.

Time>Money>Distribution

Of course you pretty much chose to ignore the other option I presented. Namely that the way the software is built up; it would be impractical or even impossible to write or produce a quick fix. This is disappointing, but ultimately a fact of life.

Scope

How is the scope of Arma2 so much greater than other games? Its practically ignored by the majority of mainstream consumers. If you want to see a game of grand scope and inspired design look to titles such as:

- Unreal-series (which managed for some time to become the industry standard for FPS shooters)

- Doom3 (which redefined the way we look at lightning in gaming, delivered blazing performance, and was a very well crafted game to boot)

- Practically any large-scale-MMO* (deal with millions more entities, game balance issues, and more than Arma will EVER encompass. Case study? EVE and WOW)

-MountnBlade (A husband and wife team from Turkey who managed to produce one of the best medieval combat simulators since Diebythesword)

and that's just scratching the surface.

To say that BIS games are 'greater in scope' than other games or genres is to sell the entire industry short. Not to mention downright rude to the people making these games

lol!! Doom3 and Unreal?? Wow, linear shooters that have pretty lighting and special effects are more ambitious? are you shitting me? They don't model NEAR the capacity as BIS games. Next you'll be saying CoD4 is realistic

Do any of these games model 225sq/km in full detail, have hundreds of different vehicles/weapons, model realistic ballistics, and have the same modding capabilities all in one package...NO

you're not making sense

Edited July 2, 2009 by No Use For A Name

[Bulldogs 10]

People, please refrain from being insulting and keep it in a sensible discussion.

Facts : Arma/OFP/Arma 2, is was and will be a very different shooter (hence why people waited so long for each one, 'cause there's nothing like it)

That said, Doom3, Unreal, My little Pony Online, yes, these were also very smart well designed advancements (especially considering the Unreal engines have been at the heart of so many games)

Saying any of those games aren't monolithic feats is selling the entire game industry short.

What people are trying to explain about the Arma statements is that games like Crysis, Far Cry 2, etc, all came out with many bugs. A large number of people couldn't run the games at all until after a few patches.

Remember, those games are linear (well, not Far Cry 2 but come on, another guard post that's exactly the same :)), and while they are difficult designs and steps forward, they are not mass virtual worlds.

So in other words, if Major games by the richest gaming companies can have bugs, please accept that Arma 2 can also have bugs.

PS : I love the campaign :)

[S!fkaIaC 10]

People, please refrain from being insulting and keep it in a sensible discussion.

Facts : Arma/OFP/Arma 2, is was and will be a very different shooter (hence why people waited so long for each one, 'cause there's nothing like it)

That said, Doom3, Unreal, My little Pony Online, yes, these were also very smart well designed advancements (especially considering the Unreal engines have been at the heart of so many games)

Saying any of those games aren't monolithic feats is selling the entire game industry short.

What people are trying to explain about the Arma statements is that games like Crysis, Far Cry 2, etc, all came out with many bugs. A large number of people couldn't run the games at all until after a few patches.

Remember, those games are linear (well, not Far Cry 2 but come on, another guard post that's exactly the same :)), and while they are difficult designs and steps forward, they are not mass virtual worlds.

So in other words, if Major games by the richest gaming companies can have bugs, please accept that Arma 2 can also have bugs.

PS : I love the campaign :)

To make it short: It is justified that ArmA 2 us bugged like hell because all the others also deliver bugged SW? It is hard for me to follow you on your argumentation chain.

[-s!Gm4- 10]

Now, to err is human. And since programmers are human, there are bugs. I dont blame them for not being perfect and for not typing 300k lines of code without an error or two. I myself could not do that either.

I think a game with such complexity like ArmA 2 would have taken another year or so to complete and release. Then you would have had no bugs at all, I suppose.

But then there is this matter of our little green friends, called dollars.

The longer the game takes to finish without being released, the more expensive it gets. Some games even get cancelled because of this.

If BIS has a fixed amount of our little green friends to spend in development of the game before they have to cancel the whole thing, they have to release the game at a point at which it is playable, but perhaps not finished completely. And they also have to get a fair return on investment to not only afford the development time but also do not risk any loss of personell in the future so they can come up with patches, the full support (which is really good in my eyes...) and so on.

So, what I'm saying is: Its not only about "They are not competent enough to make a bug-free game" and "They lack the expertise" and stuff like that.

Releasing a game when it is still buggy (or "not yet finished" as some ppl would say) is not only a matter of releasing a final, ultimate version. There are other factors (investors, development budget and so on) which have a great influence on th release date.

I'm not saying that those factors are the most important - surely the buying community is - but still they (e.g. third party investors) are able to cancel the project if it does not satisfy them.

And - honestly - I rather like a bugged game with the perspective of those bugs gettin fixed than waiting for a bug-free game and finally hearing that it has been cancelled due to funding-problems or the like.

Edited July 2, 2009 by -s!Gm4-

[Conkermon 10]

Ugh it's seriously irritating how some of you fanboy's or those of you with no problems assert that the bugs we are contending with are minor and insignificant or alternatively that the problems we have are our own fault (faulty configs or whatever). Although a plethora of minor bugs exist, I'm sure most people are prepared to overlook them and persevere in the knowledge that they will eventually be remedied.

HOWEVER, as far as I can see the bulk of us who are angry with BIS and pressing for fixes are those of us who have problems that render the game actually unplayable.

Check this 14 page thread; http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=73235 and perhaps you'll be able to appreciate why many of us are angry. When that many people have a problem and have gone to great lengths to 'troubleshoot' (hahaha) you cannot dismiss or disregard the claim that the game and the developers are seriously at fault.

To make matters worse they say nothing on the matter. A few half-assed suggesitons a few pages in from a dev, a vague suggestion that the user's config is at fault and then silence for however many weeks. How about BIS devs or representatives get on here and acknowledge the problems, how about they sticky the threads with the most widespread and serious problems.

Doing so would surely silence those of us who are on here lobbying for recognition and the resolution of our problems. We want to hear from BIS that they are aware of the more serious problems and doing their utmost to fix them, when that happens I will shut up and wait for them to be resolved.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Conkermon

[Placebo 28]

Having read the first post I am unable to decipher the specific troubleshooting issue. Please try again posting the specific issue plus your system specs + settings.