Freedom fighters......ends too soon.

[OMAC 254]

I agree completely on all counts.

Did you play quite a while ago? I think the bugs were introduced in one of the last few patches before 1.09. People had been complaining about the time limit, so BIS may have removed the END GAME code from some of the end states.

As soon as the scenario is patched, I'll try your method of moving the HQ and establishing a million ZU-23s to kill that damn base. Sounds cool.

Then again, I hope BIS overhauls it so completely that it is nearly unrecognizable. The concept of an asymmetric insurgency is awesome, but beyond that things fall apart rapidly. I offer my services to test the patched scenario and offer suggestions if BIS is interested.

Edited May 9, 2011 by OMAC

[Engioc 10]

only about 4 months ago and was playing on the current patch. This was after PMC and all the patches:

ArmA 2 108

EW 105

OA 157

BAF 102

PMC 101

Looking at the ArmA2 game updates section it seems there is a 109 patch for ArmA2, and 159 for OA so maybe these are the ones that introduced the bugs?

[OMAC 254]

No, the bug that I filed was in 1.08 and 1.09. It looks like you found a way to get things done without running into the issues with the non-perfect end states never ending. Congratulations! If you want, look at my posts in this thread from a few months back, and you can feel the frustration.

[Engioc 10]

One reason why may be a small detail I forgot to mention.

Just prior to packing up the HQ one thing I did was go to High Command and ordered the other two squads to head for the nearest town. Then switched back and drove to Elektro.

A few other times when time permitted I again switched back to HC mode and ordered those two squads to another town. In all including Elektro I probably did take 3 towns before destroying the enemy HQ.......BUT.....

Never at any point before destroying their HQ did I actually take and HOLD 3 towns. I took those towns but almost immediately lost them again apart from Elektro where I had established my base.

[OMAC 254]

Interesting. The current bugs in FF are very complex, and I do not fully understand them. They involve not only flawed end states for all but the "perfect" state (HQ destroyed and 3 towns taken before 3-hr time limit), but also that objective status is checked only every 10 seconds, whereas the scenario will end immediately.

I never switched OUT of HC mode - I was always the commander, and never moved my HQ. I also ordered a few of my men (not "squads" as you mention, as at the start you have very litlle $$ to buy men) to head for towns, where they took them (didn't hold for long). So, most of the time you were using the AI as commander, not yourself?

It looks like you must have succeeded in capturing 3 towns and destroying the base and offices before the 3hr limit. For me, around sunrise (~6:30am game time - presumably before the 3hr time limit), objectives that I had not yet won all get a red "x" - meaning failed. I even posted a screenshot showing that. I still do not understand why this happens, I am not sure if anyone else does, either (I hope at least Dwarden does!) The mission has NEVER ended for me, no matter what I do - I've never seen the debriefing screen.

Every 10 seconds, status is checked, but I don't know if one has to be currently holding a town for it to be counted, or is the "perfect" end state satisfied if you have EVER held three towns at once?

Whatever the deal is, you have somehow defeated the flawed code. Good job!!!

Edited May 10, 2011 by OMAC

[Engioc 10]

Interesting. The current bugs in FF are very complex, and I do not fully understand them. They involve not only flawed end states for all but the "perfect" state (HQ destroyed and 3 towns taken before 3-hr time limit), but also that objective status is checked only every 10 seconds, whereas the scenario will end immediately.

I never switched OUT of HC mode - I was always the commander, and never moved my HQ. I also ordered a few of my men (not "squads" as you mention, as at the start you have very litlle $$ to buy men) to head for towns, where they took them (didn't hold for long). So, most of the time you were using the AI as commander, not yourself?

I was the commander the entire time apart from a few brief seconds at the start when the AI established the HQ in the spot we started at, from that moment on though I voted myself and commander and stayed that way. I did occasionally HC as I said to move those other two squads around but those were only very brief, I was 99% concentrating on the battle near their base with my HQ setup right behind the strong point in Elektro.

One good reason never to switch back to AI as commander is because as soon as it has command it immediately mobilizes the HQ again attempts to move it back to where we started despite the fact there are already many defenses and vehicle plants where I moved it too at Elektro. So matter how much you build your base up never hand back control because the AI just doesn't understand and insists on the base being at your starting point. I think you'll find that is the case no matter where you try moving your HQ to as I did read some forums on moving the base previously but to other locations and they reported the same thing, AI always wanting to return/stay on your starting point.

Also I have to admit in a way I did take advantage of a small but valid cheat in that I restarted the game a few times till it started me at the town/start point closest to Elektro so I wouldn't have to travel too far, as I said at the start speed is very important, the longer you wait the harder they are to crack so I didn't want too much travel time.

Actually on some of my earlier attempts I did do some other pretty crazy stuff too. For example, a few times I actually immediately mobilized the HQ and actually drove it right in to their base :), what can I say I'm an aggressive commander. As funny as that may sound I did have some success with that too because again it really did seem like I'd surprised the AI. When I arrived in their base they already had around 6 light tanks ready to go but they were all empty, when I arrived of course men when rushing everywhere trying to get in their tanks and I was hoping if I was quick enough I'd be able to shoot most of them before they managed to get in, sadly though they always managed to get 1 or two tanks mobile, and they also have a number of machine gun nests and other defenses so it was hard work. A few times I even attempted to establish my HQ right in the exactly same area as theirs, one time even built it on the closest spot to their HQ (did I mention during these attempts I did have an extra couple of men with me to man the cannons in the tank and then help while I established the base but after a number of these methods I decided I was being a little too aggressive which is why I pulled back to the Strong point. Before I finally work out how to play it I also tried another aggressive but slightly quieter method which was trying to sneak in to their base and plant satchel charges. Believe it or not they aren't very good at spotting you much like some of the other scenarios and I did manage to blow a couple of buildings during these attempts too but I could never carry enough charges to do the entire base in one hit and I'd get shot to pieces trying to get back out.

I'll say again though, as crazy as some of my attempts were it kept reinforcing to me that getting in quick and right on their doorstep was a good idea because they just were not ready for me to come in to town so quickly. Unmanned tanks, being unable to spot me crawling in to base and the fact I wasn't sitting in some far away town with them coming to slaughter me. So I stuck at it and managed to find a way through their defense. Build your base right behind the strong point in Elektro and build your defenses all over that hill, keep yourself low or even stay inside the strong point and just build like mad, the second you have the cash spend it on more defense and build closer and closer to their base, find the gaps in the fences etc so you can get close and shoot through those gaps. One reason I gave up on trying to do it from a distance like the guy I originally quoted and expanded on was because of it being night and even with nvg I couldn't see enough of their base to aim at anything, so rather than building the defenses further back on the hill I moved as close as I could get. It also had the benefit of stopping them from getting too close to my HQ but they will come at you from all directions so you need your defenses facing all directions, I got to the point I was building ZU-23s in fours with their backs to each other so they'd cover all directions within each group. Also of course with anything in ArmA2 keep saving often because it doesn't take much for it to all fall apart, take a couple of bullets while you're moving to take control of some of those ZU-23s and you'll be glad you saved just a few minutes before hand.

It looks like you must have succeeded in capturing 3 towns and destroying the base and offices before the 3hr limit. For me, around sunrise (~6:30am game time - presumably before the 3hr time limit), objectives that I had not yet won all get a red "x" - meaning failed. I even posted a screenshot showing that. I still do not understand why this happens, I am not sure if anyone else does, either (I hope at least Dwarden does!) The mission has NEVER ended for me, not matter what I do - I've never seen the debriefing screen.

I've now seen it and I've now completed it twice. My internet is a little slow at the moment because I've used up my limit but in the next week I plan on trying to video as I play it through and I'll post it on youtube and provide the link (now I've said that it'll all go horribly wrong :) ) but I'll need some time because obviously this is a fairly long scenario so it'll take me time to put all the video together, render it and then upload it, I wish I had done that on my first successful run through because it was a good feeling when I finally beat it, it was the last thing I had to complete in ArmA2 and that includes OA, BAF, EW, and PMC because I had done all the other campaigns and single missions, even all the training and unlocking the armory. It was a mission that had bugged me for ages because like many others I tried soooooo many times and couldn't figure it out and just got slaughtered by the AI. Sometimes I'd manage to get off to a good start but in the end the AI would always overwhelm me with sheer numbers and heavier tanks that I couldn't match. My approach may be unrealistic but it certainly works.

Every 10 seconds, status is checked, but I don't know if one has to be currently holding a town for it to be counted, or is the "perfect" end state satisfied if you have EVER held three towns at once?

Whatever the deal is, you have somehow defeated the flawed code. Good job!!!

I can 100% guarantee I never at any time held 3 towns before destroying their HQ, I was taking them one at a time, then less than a minute later they'd be lost again.

Oh and one other thing I noticed on my attempts at going right in to their base was its not always arranged the same way, eg buildings are randomly placed within that area so HQ is not always on the same spot, neither are any of the other buildings. Always within the same area but not the exact same spot. So once the HQ was fairly close to the edge of the area which is what prompted me to try satchel charges but then found when I'd restart the whole scenario the HQ had moved further in to the middle so it was hard to get at.

Apologies too, read this again after posting, my grammar and typing in general always seems to fall apart when I do anything online.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Engioc

[OMAC 254]

I played on Veteran with only one save available. Nasty.

Thanks for your story. I look forward to the bug fix.

[frostwyrm333 1]

I tried it with 1.60rc, they increased the limit to full 3 hours but thats it. Even if you destroy enemy base (thats an objective) after 20 loads with a stolen vehicle (heaviest thing napa has is brdm), enemies simple keep spawning squads and vehicles including a tank in the villages, so basically you have to fight for one but when you leave they will simply come and retake it. Other allies are useless because they do not have access to heavier equipment.

One thing I noticed is that both smugglers and razor are just standing there, no dialog, no text, nothing.

What I think is that these missions(bear rising) were never playtested, probably they worked before because I remember that AI was useless with warfare, but since they have improved it.

Its unfinished, impossible and broken, do not try to play it again, its a waste of time.

[OMAC 254]

Uh-oh! Sorry to hear that. I have not yet had time to test it since the 1.11 patch.

Well, at least Jezuro fixed some key issues. I had doubts that much else was changed other than the start time of the mission and the endX states.

Yes, Razor has always stood there at the castle, mute and unmoving.

Edited December 22, 2011 by OMAC

[.kju 3245]

Fixes:

http://dev-heaven.net/projects/cmb/repository/diff/scripts/A2/unformatted/ca/missions/Scenarios/SP_FreedomFighters.Chernarus?rev=4e0295f8cad859fe2af891d46058bbcebd8e3533&rev_to=2bfe1e1ccdeb2a27bed34e56ef62d6aca3e35e6a

So he did more than just the time change.

[OMAC 254]

Cool. That code change view is awesome; is that new? I've never seen that before.

The changes indeed look significant and mainly involve the mission end states, time of day, and objective completion, which were the issues from the CIT ticket. And the markers were cleaned up. It's interesting that changes were made to the checkpoint capture objective (not in the ticket, but I had noticed some weirdness with that). And "Warfare 2" was removed from mission.sqm. I wonder what effect that will have.

The only thing I am worried about is how to destroy the Russian base.

Are constructed ZU-23s the only way? :(

I'll play FF over the Xmas break. Hopefully that won't age me more than a year or two. ;)

[maturin 12]

Stealing a BTR-90 is the best way. The 30mm HE works wonders and the ATGM can deal with tanks in an emergency.

[OMAC 254]

Yes, but I hardly ever could get my hands on one. When I did, it was damaged and would soon vanish due to "clutter auto-cleanup."

The key would be to partially damage one near a remote town, get in and quickly drive it to a captured strongpoint, and then repair it. Then you are 100% good to go. I will focus all my energies on that task.

But I am not 100% sure if strongpoints or even the factory at the rebel base can repair captured enemy vehicles. But I will find out! :cool:

[maturin 12]

Ah. If you get to their base fast enough, there may be empty ones.

[OMAC 254]

Now you're talking. Dangerous, like walking onto the mouth of the dragon. But cool to consider. Whenever my AI team and I tried to sneak up on the base with weapons from the smugglers on the island, we were quickly spotted and hunted down by fleets of spawned Russians. But, as you say, the key may be how early you can get to the base!!!! I'll hustle down there and try to get a vehicle even before I blow the offices. Before, in 1.08-1.10, there was only about an hour in which to blow the offices before sunrise because of the bugs. Now things are different, and time is less of an issue, so the base can be focused on FIRST!!!! Heh heh. "Eat this, Ivan!" here I come.

[frostwyrm333 1]

Smugglers gave you weapons? How? When? My were only standing and looking dumb. I'm still not going to play if they game spawns entire mechanized platoons where it likes.

I know that it could be finished but I consider it as a bug. It's not only you have to steal everything if you want to have any chance at all you must defeat an absurd amount of enemies thrown at you every other minute.

[OMAC 254]

Read the mission notes very carefully if you haven't already. A weapons cache is in crates next to the mute smugglers. As the notes state, timing is everything in this mission. As I have learned from much experience, if hoards of tanks and BTRs are coming after you, you have taken too long in performing key actions. Constructing static defenses at key points can help a lot with said armor. In a real insurgency, stealth, timing, subversion, and even pilfering of equipment are vital for success.

[ataribaby 54]

I remeber there is Razor team that is at near Castle. Razor is mentioned in briefing too, strange it do nothing when you reach em. I made small change to misson that Razor join you as soon you approach em. Very simple trigger with one line code as far i rember. Strange its not curred in patch. Oh well nothhing is perfect :)

[OMAC 254]

Yep. As the notes and a map marker lead you to Razor in a somewhat subtle manner, it would have been a cool surprise if they join you, and one of them had an AT weapon.

[Kevy 1]

I'll play FF over the Xmas break. Hopefully that won't age me more than a year or two. ;)

Hello OMAC

I've just registered here to ask you to record your walkthrough of 'Freedom Fighters' and upload it on YouTube. I'm tired to try that mission one more time, and do not like 'ever spawn' concept. Still I'm interested in "HOW THAT !#$%$% CAN BE FINISHED', you know :)

I think many people are interested in such video.

Cheers!

[OMAC 254]

Kevy, between you and I (;)), I'm tired of FF also. But as I filed a CIT ticket, and things have been fixed in 1.11, I feel responsible for playing it again to see how things shape up now. I haven't got the energy up to dive in yet. That time is fast approaching.

You are right on about an interest in a full FF walkthrough video, or at least a a complete one in text! FF is the most difficult and enigmatic A2 mission EVER! Only a few (including maturin) have actually finished it clean. But since 1.08 at least, bugs prevented anyone from finishing it, AFAIK. But I only have the free version of FRAPS which records up to 30 sec of video max. Perhaps I should pony up and buy the full version, eh?

[Kevy 1]

I only have the free version of FRAPS which records up to 30 sec of video max. Perhaps I should pony up and buy the full version, eh?

Try MSI Afterburner 2.2.0 Beta 9. It's for video card overclocking and monitoring its parameters, but version 2.2.0 (beta 9 for now) can record video and audio for free.

So I am waiting the FF walkthrough! :)

[OMAC 254]

Ah ha! I'll check it out.

[Hanzu 10]

Ah ha! I'll check it out.

I wish I would also have the energy and time to try to complete this notorious mission.

Also Xfire has free videorecording, but I think it will not feature moving recorded video to Youtube, but spreading the link for video would be possible anyway.

I have bought Fraps couple of years ago and it has been one of the best software buys ever since is was not expesive and they will send you email every time new version is available for free download for registered users.

[OMAC 254]

I've been using EVGA Precision for fan control and screenshots. But I have just uninstalled it after checking out Afterburner 2.1.0. It is just what I want - all the features of Precision, but with unlimited video capture included! It works great. I made a vid of all of Laser Show, and the laser targeting part of Village Sweep. Thanks for the tip, Kevy!

Even the free FRAPS is very good, but it seems to be utterly eclipsed by Afterburner. Hanzu, let me know if you disagree.

The problem with making a FF walkthrough vid is that I've still got to figure out the perfect strategy since the bugs have been fixed. Only after mastering it will I make a vid, so that means I will have to play through at least twice. Ugh.

----------------------------------

Here's the Village Sweep vid. Watch the JDAM munition (or some other type of BIG BOMB) nail that BRDM BIG TIME. :D

uTPbVNlOL08

Edited December 29, 2011 by OMAC