Freedom fighters......ends too soon.

[OMAC 254]

Yes, that is another mission flaw. Razor Team says and does nothing, and thus their inclusion is a useless distraction. One time though, I visited them and Sykes was dead for some reason, so I took his awesome DMR.

The smugglers have a weapons cache that you can use, so they DO have value. Not much, though, as the weapons are not that great. It takes quite a long time to get there, get the weapons, and get back to shore. That normally wouldn't be a problem, but with the ~1 hr sunrise time limit, the whole exercise is a waste of time, especially as destroying the base with RPGs is NOT the way to go.

Edited March 26, 2011 by OMAC

[OMAC 254]

Maybe we have been confusing game time (as seen on player's watch) and real time? Is the three hour time limit real time, as in the amount of time you have sat at the computer playing the scenario, or the amount of game time that has elapsed for your player in Chernarus?

[.kju 3240]

Normally the "script time" is the same as the day time.

However warfare adds a lot of strain to the computer.

It might be that the daytime no longer is sync with the actual time played.

If you really want to find out, download and load along the gaia console:

http://www.file-upload.net/download-3315785/stra_debug1.pbo.html

You can start by pressing ESC while playing and next the left alt key.

In the top you have the variable checking fields.

Add "time" and "daytime". Now you can check them while playing.

[gambla 10]

I captured alle cities and mission ended with debriefing..

[.kju 3240]

type="END1";
text="Eat this, Ivan!";
expCond="(BIS_captureCount == (count towns)) && BIS_WF_EastBaseDestroyed && !BIS_timeUp";
expActiv="activatekey ""BIS_SP04""; BIS_handle = execVM ""data\scripts\processEndTasks.sqf""; endMission ""END1""";

You got the first ending and this is why you got a debriefing.

As you upped the time limit to 48 hours you impressive 23 hours play time works out. :)

Did you destroy the east base? You should have to complete to fulfill the condition.

You got a red X for villages as the check only happens every 10 seconds, but the mission ends immediately

when any end condition is met. The scripted end handling is not well done.

Edited March 27, 2011 by .kju [PvPscene]

[OMAC 254]

Yes, Dwarden the BIS developer wrote that there are several things messed up about the end conditions, as we have suspected. For example, what happened to me several times is that I had destroyed the base, but 3 towns were not captured, so the mission never ended.

But I still don't understand why, after the base was destroyed, the mission didn't end when I later did take 3 towns (and then all of them). How did Gambla get the END1 condition? Perhaps destroying the base before the red x's appear permanently prevents the END1 condition?

It will be very interesting how BIS fixes the conditions, as it may significantly alter the scenario gameplay.

Edit:

The red x's appear for uncompleted objectives around 6:30am every time for me. The red x's did not apparently prevent gambla from achieving the END1 condition with the time limit upped to 2 days. I am completely confused about what makes the red x's appear.

Edited March 27, 2011 by OMAC

[.kju 3240]

a) Gambla modified the mission end time (from 3 to 48 hours) as he wrote earlier.

b) If you take more than three ours, the first condition can no longer become true.

expCond="(BIS_captureCount == (count towns)) && BIS_WF_EastBaseDestroyed && !BIS_timeUp";

Focus on the last condition: not BIS_timeUp.

BIS_timeUp is false at the start and becomes true after three hours.

Therefore after that time it is impossible to get all three conditions true.

[OMAC 254]

a) Gambla modified the mission end time (from 3 to 48 hours) as he wrote earlier.

b) If you take more than three ours, the first condition can no longer become true.

expCond="(BIS_captureCount == (count towns)) && BIS_WF_EastBaseDestroyed && !BIS_timeUp";

Focus on the last condition: not BIS_timeUp.

BIS_timeUp is false at the start and becomes true after three hours.

Therefore after that time it is impossible to get all three conditions true.

Yes, I am aware of all that, as I wrote in my previous post. However, no one knows if the appearance of the red x's means that the 3 hr time limit has expired or not. I think it does, but I get the red x's at 6:30am, BEFORE three hours has expired, at least in game time (???). If red x's appear, does that mean that END1 cannot ever occur? Until BIS fixes the conditions (which could take many months), this info is key, as a player will know if the 3 hr limit has expired when the x's appear and thus not waste their time with the scenario any longer, as END1 can never occur.

WHAT DO THE RED X's MEAN? WHAT TRIGGERS THEM? ARE THEY IMPORTANT? CAN A RED X EVER CHANGE TO A GREEN "COMPLETED" MARKER (I highly doubt it)?

If END2-4 conditions ended the scenario as they should, would we ever see the red x's? I think that they only appear due to the flawed end conditions.

[.kju 3240]

You are talking about tasks. These are different states:

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/setTaskState

Red X = "Failed"

As posted before, the tasks are set by

1) processEndTasks.sqf from the mission end conditions 1-4 (trigger in the mission.sqm)

http://pastebin.jonasscholz.de/1361

2) the constant loop in winConditions.sqf

http://pastebin.jonasscholz.de/1362

Now focus on end 4 trigger again:

			type="END4";
		text="Bloodshed";
		expCond="BIS_WF_ResistanceBaseDestroyed || ((time > 2000) && (BIS_captureCountEast == (count towns)))";
		expActiv="BIS_handle = execVM ""data\scripts\processEndTasks.sqf""";

and from the loop

	BIS_captureCountEast = 
{
	//call (compile format ["%1SideID == 128", _x]);
	(_x getVariable "side") == east;
} count towns;

Now the problems appears to be that the "side" is never set.

[OMAC 254]

Thanks, but what makes the tasks fail at 6:30am? Could anything but the 3 hr time limit make them fail (or perhaps an error in the scripting, of course)?

[.kju 3240]

Are you sure or better do you have proof (= screenshot) that it is exactly at 6:30?

[OMAC 254]

What, you don't believe me? :butbut:

I used FRAPS for the first time. I wish f12 still worked in A2/OA for screenshots.

This shot was taken at 7:05am game time (see watch), but the two objectives had failed around 6:30. Again, I don't know EXACTLY what time the tasks fail, but 6:30 is pretty close. 6:30 is the earliest I have seen the tasks fail with the red x's. I had thought that they failed around sunrise, as the scenario notes suggest that tasks be completed either before sunrise (offices) or as fast as possible. I had captured Kamyshovo also, but the Russians had just recaptured it. What made the two tasks fail so early in the scenario?

See those two damn T-90s coming up the hill from Kamyshovo? Damn they suck. Love that Metis, tho.

Edited May 29, 2011 by OMAC

[.kju 3240]

You must understand that time a scripting variable and has no direct relation to day time.

Especially both can get async if you get into very low fps (like warfare can cause).

To recap:

1. You have 2000s = 33min to capture at least one town or you will get red X.

2. You have 3 * 3600s = 3 hours to fulfill the tasks to get no red X.

3. The mission starts at 5:20 am.

[OMAC 254]

You must understand that time a scripting variable and has no direct relation to day time.

Especially both can get async if you get into very low fps (like warfare can cause).

To recap:

1. You have 2000s = 33min to capture at least one town or you will get red X.

2. You have 3 * 3600s = 3 hours to fulfill the tasks to get no red X.

3. The mission starts at 5:20 am.

"Recapping" info which is obvious and has already been discussed is unhelpful and a waste of your time.

If the game clock gets so out of sync that the 3 hr time limit is reached and objectives fail after about 1-1.5 hours, something is REALLY MESSED UP! I have trouble believing that this is the problem, but what do I know?

I'm getting about 35 fps in this scenario at very high quality settings. Is that really low enough to get the clocks that out of sync? I highly doubt it.

[.kju 3240]

Well i am out of here. I tried to help, provide insights in the coding, yet it seems not wanted. Laters.

[OMAC 254]

Thanks for uncovering the fact that END2-4 weren't ending the mission! Other than that, you were mainly repeating yourself over and over again, which wasn't providing the useful info which I most certainly DO WANT. Thanks to you, and to me for filing the bug, BIS is looking at the scripts and I hope will fix them in the future to make FF properly playable.

Edited March 28, 2011 by OMAC

[MissionCreep 12]

^^^^^

Given the 2nd anniversary of Arma2's release is fast approaching, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[OMAC 254]

You are probably right. I've already moved on to PMC which is FANTASTIC! But for some reason, I'm getting more soft crashes to desktop than usual.

[Engioc 10]

I realise I'm a little late to the party on this one. I did complete this some time ago now but when I saw this decided perhaps I'd post my 2 cents worth in case anyone is still struggling with this one.

I was also having a hard time to play this mission through, until I found the trick. In fact it isn't THAT hard of you know how to do it... Digest the mission task notes might give you some hints...

The key of success is "speed". Since the Russians are building up their force as you do but they are in the upper hand because they have heavy factory while you don't, the sooner finish off the enemy base, the better. You don't want to see a column of T-90s crushing your poor small BRDM, right?

Take a look on the task note of destroying the office building in Elektrozavodsk. It suggested that you should bomb it before dawn. However this mission started at about 5am, which means the sunlight comes up very soon. Although in fact it doesn't matter even you bomb after 7am, but it is a IMPORTANT hint!

This is what I did:

I bought 6 satchel charges, putting them in the motorcycle nearby and drove as crazy towards Elektrozavodsk. In the progress I discovered the Russian base on the plain south of the city. Then I placed all satchel charges inside the building. Bombed it and returned to capture the north strong point which overlooked the Russian base. Bought a ZU-23 and pointed it to the base. Since it was still early stage, the Russians didn't have anything better than a BTR and the ZU-23 should be enough for wreak hovac. I cleaned up every buildings, vehicles and troops. Although the Russian soldiers seemed to be constantly spawning, but in fact they would eventually stopped after a while. I think those were "queued productions" which were still in effect even the barrack was destroyed. After I made sure everything were cleared. I continued with the mission.

With the enemy base destroyed, the rest of the mission was just a piece of cake!

I completed it pretty much the same as Airborne_hk and as he says the key to this one is speed and taking note of what the mission brief says.

So like Airborne_hk I headed to Elektrozavodsk pretty much as soon as the mission started, the major difference though is I let the AI build my HQ which only takes a few seconds, as soon as that was done I bought as many satchel charges as I could and also voted myself as commander. Once that was done I packed up the HQ and drove it to Elektrozavodsk, planted the satchel charges in the office building, for me 2 were enough, one on the second floor against the wall at the top of the stairs, and another one at hte bottom of those same stairs. Got back in the HQ and drove to the main capture point for Elektrozavodsk.

As soon as I arrived I triggered the satchel charges, task completed, then built my HQ directly behind the strong point and of course capturing the strong point. This meant I was able to make money fast with my HQ so close to the main strong point and also I could build plenty of defenses, mostly ZU-23, but a few other things mixed in. Over time I gradually built the ZU-23's closer and closer to the enemy HQ till I had it in full view (with plenty of supporting ZU-23 near by) then jumped onboard to start taking out their base. Of course all this happened pretty quickly and all money being earned was being spent on more ZU-23 and I almost literally had the road and hill lined with them with ZU-23's covering other ZU-23's. Most important buildings I targeted first was the HQ but also very important to take out the heavy vehicle plant to prevent the heavy tanks from ever being produced and kept things much more even between me and the enemy. Of course while all this was happening they were happily taking towns around the map but I didn't really pay much attention, just focused all my efforts on destroying their base asap and gradually building more defenses and plants of my own and expand my force.

I tried many other ways of beating this map but none worked for me, I did try hitting Elektrozavodsk early a number of times but not quit like my last attempt. Having my HQ so close was a risk I know and I did lose a lot of stuff, continually having to replace vehicle plants and defenses before I took out their base completely. I found with other methods although sometimes I make some progress in the end I'd always get overwhelmed and out gunned, it seems the AI also has the ability to use fast travel like us and so you can take a town only to have it taken back because they just fast travel some tanks up to the next closest town, its all too easy for them and makes it very hard for us to earn the money. In many ways too it really does seem like hitting them early and hitting hard surprises the AI because it takes them a while to really start responding, buying you valuable time to set up some defense. With my HQ so close I was able to direct fire right in to their base and even if not taking out buildings I was at least destroying vehicles and men. My only regret since beating it is I didn't have FRAPS running to record it because it looked pretty cool too with explosions going off in all directions, it was a pretty intense battle and exciting.

Like many at first I hated this one and thought it too hard but now I love it and will be playing it many more times now I know the secret to winning. So my advice to anyone who hasn't yet completed this one, give it another try and follow Airborne_hk advice but instead of taking the bike take the whole HQ and slap your base down right on their doorstep. Be prepared for a hard fight and make sure you save often, but if you hit them hard like this you should win and not get out gunned like with other methods.

Once you've taken out everything in their base you will still find soldiers spawning in their base area but have a few light tanks of your own stationed in that area and they'll take care of anything that appears while you run off and take care of the other objectives. Also I noted there is a time limit but once their base is destroyed you seem to have as much time as you like to complete all the other objectives, and they're all pretty easy to deal with since they have no base to send in more BTRs or troops to stop you. I did encounter some BTRs and in other towns that had gone out during the fighting at their base but as long as you bring along a few of your own its nothing too difficult to deal with.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Engioc

[maturin 12]

^^^^^

Given the 2nd anniversary of Arma2's release is fast approaching, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Dwarden said that he fixed an Arma 2 tutorial glitch just last week. Make a ticket and it could happen.

[OMAC 254]

Engioc,

Thanks for your story. I have never tried moving my HQ, and don't know how to do it, but I'm sure it isn't that hard to figure out. Moving your HQ immediately to the main strongpoint of Elektro doesn't sound very realistic.

My past posts in this thread, and those by PVPscene, have indicated that there are horrible bugs in the mission design that are in the process of getting fixed by Dwarden:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/18491

I strongly advise against playing the scenario until it is fixed.

Edited May 8, 2011 by OMAC

[Engioc 10]

Engioc,

Thanks for your story. I have never tried moving my HQ, and don't know how to do it, but I'm sure it isn't that hard to figure out. Moving your HQ immediately to the main strongpoint of Elektro doesn't sound very realistic.

My past posts in this thread, and those by PVPscene, have indicated that there are horrible bugs in the mission design that are in the process of getting fixed by Dwarden:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/18491

I strongly advise against playing the scenario until it is fixed.

I see your point about it being unrealistic but in other ways I dont mind because you can take command and as such have the ability to move your base to anywhere on the map which is not unrealistic at all.

Often the problem on this scenario is not the time limit but the overwhelming number of light and heavy tanks thrown at you (and the speed with which it can do it) and once the T72s etc start rolling and the fact you cant build a heavy vehicle plant yourself makes it impossible.

The fact I choose to build my HQ in the same town as his doesn't necessarily make it unrealistic, just a very aggressive move on the enemy and as it says in the brief you should hit them hard and early while they're not expecting it, and if you follow that it works.

AS for waiting for a fix, well thanks for your comments and I do understand what you're saying but I'm happy enough with the way it is now. If there is an official patch which changes how this scenario works well then I'll play it with those changes, but I think I'll keep playing it before that happens too because so far I've not experienced the bugs.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Engioc
so far I've not experienced the bugs.

[maturin 12]

Really, someone needs to hack open this scenario and overhaul it so it becomes an actual Guerilla war, not a ridiculously unbalanced Picket's Charge against teleporting T-90s.

The only way to win is through exploiting the abstraction that is the Warfare system. You don't employ a real battlefield tactic or think like an actual leader for one millisecond. It's less simulation-like than Age of Empires.

[OMAC 254]

Really, someone needs to hack open this scenario and overhaul it so it becomes an actual Guerilla war, not a ridiculously unbalanced Picket's Charge against teleporting T-90s.

The only way to win is through exploiting the abstraction that is the Warfare system. You don't employ a real battlefield tactic or think like an actual leader for one millisecond. It's less simulation-like than Age of Empires.

I agree completely. Enignoc, you got the game to end normally with all objectives completed? Have you seen the red x's in for failed objectives? As Dwarden noted, the game will never end if you destroy the base and you haven't yet captured 3 towns.

No matter how much ones loves A2, this scenario ain't worth the time, and I know, as I have spent days and days on it. When they patch it, maybe I'll try again. I hope very much that BIS overhauls the thing completely, as the intense spawning and time limit are completely unrealistic.

[Engioc 10]

I agree completely. Enignoc, you got the game to end normally with all objectives completed? Have you seen the red x's in for failed objectives? As Dwarden noted, the game will never end if you destroy the base and you haven't yet captured 3 towns.

No matter how much ones loves A2, this scenario ain't worth the time, and I know, as I have spent days and days on it. When they patch it, maybe I'll try again. I hope very much that BIS overhauls the thing completely, as the intense spawning and time limit are completely unrealistic.

To be honest I haven't experienced the problems mentioned here. I destroy the office building, then their HQ, and completed all the other objectives and no red crosses and my game ended perfectly.

I'm not going to deny there may be bugs, I didn't experience any on this one but I surely did on other campaign missions, and scenarios, the amount of bugs in ArmA 2 is its downfall. It's a great game and I love it but all to often it comes out looking crap because of the bugs. 90% of the time things run well but when things go wrong in ArmA 2 they go really wrong and look really lame.

I've shown ArmA 2 to many of my friends and people are amazed and the size and scope of what ArmA 2 gives us but then you listen to the robotic sounding AI speech (like when trying to give driving instructions to your AI tank driver), tanks getting completely stuck with pathfinding issues, ulb flying in circles even though you've set a waypoint for it miles from its current position, just too many things that work and then for some stupid reason decide to stop working and act crazy. With all that people get put off this game and for BI and ArmA long term I hope they get addressed because as I said I love this game and great concept.