recognising my "left" when AI calls for threats.

[topeira 10]

im having a difficult time to understand what "right" or "front" means when my commander or teammates call out targets. when they say, in their robotic and

spliced manner "enemy... left... of... us" i can never tell what does LEFT means.

directions are subjective.

what happened to stating directions like WEST or NORTH?

any tips on how i can understand what LEFT means when sated by the AI?

[frederf 0]

After a few steps the squad's "direction of travel" gets defined. Left, right, ahead, behind are referenced from that. During halts or quick turns the direction of travel is nebulous for the human player. You'll notice the same thing commanding say an AI tank driver as a tank commander. You'll say back and he'll back up along the axis of movement which is not necessarily exactly behind the vehicle.

Try putting on the "clock face indicator" in the difficulty menu to get a feel for what "12 oclock" is for call outs.

[76 0]

im having a difficult time to understand what "right" or "front" means when my commander or teammates call out targets. when they say, in their robotic and

spliced manner "enemy... left... of... us" i can never tell what does LEFT means.

directions are subjective.

what happened to stating directions like WEST or NORTH?

any tips on how i can understand what LEFT means when sated by the AI?

Agreed, what did happen to cardinal directions... left, right..... it makes no sense, as topeira said, "directions are subjective". North is always north.

[topeira 10]

After a few steps the squad's "direction of travel" gets defined. Left, right, ahead, behind are referenced from that. During halts or quick turns the direction of travel is nebulous for the human player. You'll notice the same thing commanding say an AI tank driver as a tank commander. You'll say back and he'll back up along the axis of movement which is not necessarily exactly behind the vehicle.

Try putting on the "clock face indicator" in the difficulty menu to get a feel for what "12 oclock" is for call outs.

huh?

im not sure how to do this but gonna take a look in the diff settings.

so with the clock ON i can tell what FRONT (12o.c.) means for the AI?

[dvolk 10]

The good old clock doesn't work. BIS either forgot to implement it or forgot to remove the option.

[whisper 0]

Bad solution : if you see them, try to see where your teammate's guns are pointing. Usually the point the target they just announced.

Cumbersome, but better than nothing

[NoBF2boy 10]

arma1 did that better, dont know what BIS game designer was on when he designed the threat warnings.

from a realistic military sim i would expect something like "Tango (enemy)...SW...100m" or even more precise (if theres time) "Tango...bearing 245...200m". (bearing can be read on compass)

[MQ-9 Reaper 10]

I don't have ArmA II yet but, from what I have seen I think it is not that bad (and to be honest, I am glad the clock system is gone : "enemies 7,8,9,10 o'clock!";)).

If you are the squad leader and you have a good situational awareness, you should know which direction you are heading at (and squad members will mainly follow your movements) so when they call out targets, it should be understandable.

During halts or quick turns the direction of travel is nebulous for the human player.

yes, that could be a problem in those situations.

[WhoCares 0]

arma1 did that better, dont know what BIS game designer was on when he designed the threat warnings.

from a realistic military sim i would expect something like "Tango (enemy)...SW...100m" or even more precise (if theres time) "Tango...bearing 245...200m". (bearing can be read on compass)

You must be a Flightsim fanboy ;) Tango, Bogey, Bandit and the like Brevity Codes are used by air forces not ground forces. I also don't think that a compass is issued to every soldier, neither would I expect a soldier to search his pouches for one when there are enemies nearby. That's why the clock is usually the better option, but of course, it is also subjective...

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

IMHO OFP didi the radio-comm much better than both arma ana arma2.

[topeira 10]

i expect every soldier to know where NORTH is.

sometimes i hear my commander teling me "be advised. enemy NW of your position. i imediately know where to look. THAT's helpful! not the "in-front-of-us" stuff. to make out "front" i need to bring up the map, see my commanders direction and figure out what's his front. stupid.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Theoretical Left, Right, Front and Rear should be based on last line of march direction.

Clock should be the same.

If you are leading AI on my experience it seems to be based on the direction you have been walking for the last 10 or so seconds.

I need to do some experimentation to confirm this.

In MP for humans this is complex; so that it is complex with AI does not surprise me.

Kind Regards walker

Edited June 22, 2009 by walker

[mcvittees 0]

The left/right direction indicators work fire me - at close range - but anything over 100m I'd prefer they used a compass heading. I like the new warning dialouges - sound much more real. As Walker said, it's hard enough to give comms to humans in MP, so for AI to do it must be a real programming challenge!

[76 0]

You must be a Flightsim fanboy ;) Tango, Bogey, Bandit and the like Brevity Codes are used by air forces not ground forces. I also don't think that a compass is issued to every soldier, neither would I expect a soldier to search his pouches for one when there are enemies nearby. That's why the clock is usually the better option, but of course, it is also subjective...

I know which way north is nearly everywhere I go in the real world and I'd expect that every soldier would know NESW before entering the theatre... NESW is far more practical than left, right or the clock system... imo

I don't understand why most ppl here are defending anything but cardinal directions (compass) left, right, front or 2 o'clock, 3 o'clock etc its just to subjective.

Edited June 22, 2009 by 76
spelling :)

[maddogx 13]

I know which way north is nearly everywhere I go in the real world and I'd expect that every soldier would know NESW before entering the theatre... NESW is far more practical than left, right or the clock system... imo

I don't understand why most ppl here are defending anything but cardinal directions (compass) left, right, front or 2 o'clock, 3 o'clock etc its just to subjective.

QFT. Cardinal directions are absolute, i.e. the same for everyone, therefore they are the most ideal reference point. All it takes is a quick glance at the compass, and that's only if you don't know where you're currently facing.

Everything else, be it "left/right" or "x O'clock" is relative, subjective and thus generally unreliable in my opinion.

[mcvittees 0]

I don't understand why most ppl here are defending anything but cardinal directions (compass) left, right, front or 2 o'clock, 3 o'clock etc its just to subjective.

Left/right/infront sounds more indicative of informal communications used in real life and thus seems more real. However, there is no denying a simple compass system would increase SA.

[An Fiach 10]

You must be a Flightsim fanboy ;) Tango, Bogey, Bandit and the like Brevity Codes are used by air forces not ground forces. I also don't think that a compass is issued to every soldier, neither would I expect a soldier to search his pouches for one when there are enemies nearby. That's why the clock is usually the better option, but of course, it is also subjective...

You are of course, incorrect. Ground forces do indeed use brevity code. You are correct about the rest. One can assume that a soldier would know the cardinal directions but if you are in a strange place at high noon and more concerned with not being shot, you will become disoriented quite quickly.

Edited June 22, 2009 by anfiach

[Baff1 0]

Only if you have no fixed point of reference. So if you are at sea, in a dense forest or Jungle etc...

If you know "that mountain on the horizon is to the north" or the "main road runs from east to west", then you will always know your azimuth for as long as you are in theatre.

[frederf 0]

Left/right/infront sounds more indicative of informal communications used in real life and thus seems more real. However, there is no denying a simple compass system would increase SA.

I think that they should use a mixture of o'clock, left/right, and compass direction; human beings certainly do. The probability of them using o'clock should be very high when in a vehicle, left/right probability should be high when the direction of travel is well defined (been the same for a while, not near halts or turns), and compass direction should be most probable during halts or turns.

That being said compass direction is by far the least confusing method of direction for infantry and would pose the least problems if it was used 100% of the time.

[raynor 0]

The compass system was flawed in the fact that it, too, was very subjective to the movement of the group as a whole. The left/right and front/back is bad too but not as bad as the compass system. Your left with more of a general feel of where your new contact is at with what they have now then what they had before. Still... those shouldn't be used unless your in a vehicle.

If the AI can gather enough information now to make their reports It shouldn't be too difficult to change it to indicate something like the following:

Proword, Identifier, Direction (Cardinal), Distance

As in..

CONTACT! Enemy Infantry, North-West, Five Hundred Meters.

[frederf 0]

By "compass" I meant cardinal direction (North, etc). I've found that front-right, front-left, front, rear, etc can work very well in a human-to-human communication when the direction that is front is very obvious.

[festivus 10]

Good examples of realistic contact reports are in the first few minutes of Generation Kill:

You'll hear things like: "4 T-55s at 1 o'clock, 2000 meters" and "Contact right, 400 meters, 4 o'clock, enemy foot mobiles behind the berm". They don't use compass directions, that's too confusing and not all soldiers are issued compasses, and they're aren't going to pull it out in combat anyway. Words like "Tango" don't describe anything, he could have an Ak-47, or a machinegun, or an RPG launcher, or might not even be armed at all.

The US Army teaches its soldiers to report contacts using distance, direction and description using the clock method. 12 O'clock is always the direction of travel the squad is going, regardless of which way the squad is actually oriented. If you want the game to be realistic in regards to how it reports contacts, the clock system in OFP would be the most accurate. Whether this is good for game play is another matter, but I personally prefer the clock system, as it's both realistic and useful once you understand it. Cardinal directions would be the most confusing for me, if someone says "North-west" I'm automatically thinking "left-front", not necessarily which direction North-West actually is. Unless you're using your compass a lot it's hard to orient yourself on North.

Edited June 22, 2009 by Festivus

[An Fiach 10]

Most gamers understand compass directions because most tac games have some sort of HUD compass these days

[inspectorn 10]

I can't get the squad's direction to change, I walked for a good twelve seconds and when we came to a halt the squad re-arranged themselves back into the wrong formation.

[festivus 10]

Order them to fall back into formation and they will form themselves to the direction you are facing.