Radiosound + Mouse Lag Problem

[fredz 10]

Hi all I just finished reading the 23 pages or posts on this forum

As I am new here 1stly I need to say hi to all, and thanks to those who are working on this bizarre problem.

HOWEVER I am not new to gaming I have been around since the days of wolfenstein (yes the first one with square rooms) hell I go back to zx spectrum days.

Having read all the posts I am appalled by people who come on these forums and post “I don’t have the problem†that’s great for you but very counter productive for us that do have the problem.

Further more is there any word from the developer that they are aware of this problem as I did not see a mention of this at all and well that’s just poor customer relations

We have 23 pages of posts trust me it’s a bug and a bad one that needs to be looked at it would be nice if the devs could put in even 1 line saying yes we know of it and are working on it or yes we know not going to fix it.

I originally bought operation flashpoint and loved it to the extent that I bought both expansion packs and finished the game.

When I heard of arma I was overjoyed but alas the mouse problem was there.

Now I get the demo of arma 2 and hey, the same thing that made me not buy arma 1 in arma 2 just bad ...very bad.

Will not be buying this game till it gets fixed.

I have tried all suggested fixes to no avail (for those of us that are English impaired I had NO successes)

Any attempt to say that this is a game feature is insanity if you don’t have the problem then please refrain from posting as you are just wasting time.

As I play war games with weapons of 1to1 weight ratio (that means actual weight) I do NOT take that long to bring my weapon to a stop when moving to my next target

The videos I have watched do show the problem to a LESSER degree

Summery of problem (That I have been able to garner together)

1) Only manifests itself on xp systems (unconfirmed)

2) Lower frame rates aggravates it (it is not frame rate dependent)

3) Appears that v-sync and/or mouse smoothing could be part of the problem

4) It is NOT the float zone

5) It is NOT hardware related

What may help

1) Download ati tray tools at guru3d and try forcing v-sync off

2) Using above ati tools to change the set maximum pre-rendered frames to 1 or 0

3) Disable post processing in game

4) Raised the mouse DPI and lowered the ingame sensitivity

5) Increasing you fps by lowering your ingame settings and view distance

Please feel free to alert e to any future suggestions or diagnoses or errors in my post

Hope this sums up what we are experiencing and allows us to pinpoint the problem.

Ps

my pc is an

Intel duel 3 gig

3 gigs ram

Radeon 4850

2 160gig drives

Laser mouse

For whatever that’s worth

[ste4lth004 10]

Anyone know how to turn off V-Sync ingame with nvidia rig.

Edited July 3, 2009 by ste4lth004

[Maw 0]

I believe Maw was just mentioning that it didn't work for him with the standard V-Sync off so he used another method to turn it off which worked

Thanks for the post Maw

Indeed.

Thanks for making it clearer.

Therefore, even if you have already tried setting V-Sync off through the Catalyst Control Center - or any other means - I strongly encourage you to give it one more try with Tray Tools as it did make a huge difference for several people, including myself.

Anyway, I am pretty sure the mouse lag is V-Sync related.

Yet the true problem right now is to really be able to deactivate it, and some methods seem to work better than others.

[83upwi 10]

Anyone know how to turn off V-Sync ingame with nvidia rig.

Right click desktop, -> Nvidia Control Panel, Manage 3D Settings, Program Settings. Click Add, browse to the Arma2.exe file, scroll down and select "Force Off" for the Vsync option. Hit apply. Done.

---------- Post added at 05:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 PM ----------

Anyway, I am pretty sure the mouse lag is V-Sync related.

Yet the true problem right now is to really be able to deactivate it, and some methods seem to work better than others.

It's not a vsync related bug. What you are seeing is that vsync enabled *adds* to your input lag (just like almost any other game does with vsync enabled), so when disabling it, yes you are getting an improvement, the problem is still there though (unless you are one of the lucky ones that this bug does not affect for some reason).

[bekster 0]

no mouse lag, plays great. Only lag i get is when its to much game for my system. a all around lag thang,, like ALL games.... iam sure you will go on and post like a troll who doesnt own the game ,, wait you did in this very thread ....

---------- Post added at 09:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 AM ----------

ARMA1 is really smooth for me with my usb mouse and system...hmmm

---------- Post added at 09:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:02 AM ----------

well there ya go, i dont really see any laggness in that vid... but i dont have your eye for lag in ARMA but i do own ARMA2

---------- Post added at 09:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 AM ----------

your keen insite is very helpfull, when you buy ARMA2 post some more, seems like you should be posting in ARMA1 about your mouse lag, you havent ever done that?

Sorry I cant hear you?! Its Probably the sound of how cool you are! Go save the world man!!!!!!11111!11:cc:

[hi.c 10]

fredz's summary above pretty much lays it out like it is. In case there are still people who think your hardware affects the mouse input lag, feast your eyes on this:

I made my game look like this (200+ fps) and still have mouse lag. Please fix this, BI. Everyone I know who has tried the demo is disgusted with the mouse lag and has not bought it as a result.

[axure 10]

I totally support what Fredz said.

Maybe except for the OS: It happens not only in XP, I can personally confirm that under Windows 7 RC it's exactly the same. (And hence most likely in Vista.)

[Bulldogs 10]

Yeah, it's not only XP, that said, it seems more pronounced in XP

I actually tried on XP and noticed that there is mouse lag there (but my frame rate is much higher)

So I disabled V-Sync and set my max pre-rendered frames to 1 and that helped, but the lag is still there (extremely light amount of lag)

So I went back to Vista and noticed that if I concentrate really really hard that there is an actual bit of mouse lag there, but it's barely noticeable, but under XP it's more noticeable.. but now that I have finally noticed it, it's going to annoy me to no end... thank you all for that.

[ste4lth004 10]

Right click desktop, -> Nvidia Control Panel, Manage 3D Settings, Program Settings. Click Add, browse to the Arma2.exe file, scroll down and select "Force Off" for the Vsync option. Hit apply. Done.

---------- Post added at 05:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 PM ----------

It's not a vsync related bug. What you are seeing is that vsync enabled *adds* to your input lag (just like almost any other game does with vsync enabled), so when disabling it, yes you are getting an improvement, the problem is still there though (unless you are one of the lucky ones that this bug does not affect for some reason).

Thx, but it still doesnt work oh well.

Edited July 4, 2009 by ste4lth004

[fredz 10]

Okay hi all thanks all for feedback I have readjusted to summarize the problem

Any new info is helpful

Ps thanks to ste4lth004 for dragging up the quote by 83upwi on the nvidia fix

Summery of problem (That I have been able to garner together)

1) Lower frame rates aggravates it (it is not frame rate dependent)

2) Appears that v-sync and/or mouse smoothing could be part of the problem

3) It is NOT the float zone

4) It is NOT hardware related

5) happens on all os systems (win7, xp and vista)

What may help

1) Download ati tray tools at guru3d and try forcing v-sync off

2) Using above ati tools to change the set maximum pre-rendered frames to 1 or 0

2.1 if you have nvidia Right click desktop, -> Nvidia Control Panel, Manage 3D Settings, Program Settings. Click Add, browse to the Arma2.exe file, scroll down and select "Force Off" for the Vsync option. Hit apply. Done.

3) Disable post processing in game

4) Raised the mouse DPI and lowered the ingame sensitivity

5) Increasing you fps by lowering your ingame settings and view distance

[FreakMeister 0]

I'm running on win7 and i have the same problem. Is just frustrating trying to hit 2 consecutive targets at the shooting range on the carrier, it seems almost impossible. I had the same problem in Arma 1 so i think its has something to do with the engine/mouse accel/mouse inertia/whatever. I've never had this issue in any other game (apart from arma1), even Bioshock works pretty well with my g9 (900 DPI, every other mouse related setting is default in the OS).

BTW, i also notice a little lag in placebo's vid. I'd like to see some other video from the people that say they don't have this problem (it would be a lot better if they could record it in the shooting range at the carrier or at the bootcamp).

My rig: 8800 gts 320 mb e6600 @ 3.0 ghz

In game settings: 1280x1024 everything normal settings except blur (low), 1600 view distance. Don't seem to have any low framerate just the occasional hiccup when turning too fast.

cheers.

Tomorrow i'll be trying some of the proposed fixes, and will post my results.

Edited July 7, 2009 by FreakMeister
bad grammar :-D

[Habitats 10]

Unless you recently scoped through the last 24 pages. READ THIS.

First of all. I've been reading 24 pages straight and it feels like I've read the same stuff over and over and over again. I'm with the guys who got a major mouse lag problem or whatever it might be. One thing is certain and that is that there's a problem here.

And regarding the video posted by Placebo. I can clearly sense latency between your hand and your gun (yes, your GUN and not whatever surroundings. I know you got the dead zone and all that stuff, and I'm 100% certain that the hand and the guns movement aren't 100% synchronized). Compared to many others your lag isn't as severe but it's there. I'm not the only person mentioning this either, just take a look at the comments below the video. But as far as that goes, the amount you're having could be intentional from the developers (but I hardly think so).

While reading through these pages I found a couple of posts in particular that really deserve getting another shot. The first one is by ICEOverDose, where he's more or less analyzing the actual realism in this game. There's quite a few good points here.

You guys are kidding with the "Feature" thing right?

In a game where you can instantly zoom in 3x with no optics(wish I could do that in real life) at any time, or jump out of a plane going 300mph toward the earth 20 feet before impact and parachute to safety, or fly into one tree and be fine one second and get shot by a handgun the next and get blown up like there was C4 strapped to the entire plane... You really think that they were going this far with the "inertia" thing?

Beyond that. I know that their "inertia" system works perfectly fine. If you get into a tank and try to turn the turret you will notice that it slows down your mouse sensitivity rather than delaying it like we are experiencing here. So our problem only compounds the aiming issues of big weapons.

This mouse acceleration problem has been in MANY games: Bioshock, Almost every game based off a movie for the past 3 years(Uhhhg Wanted: WEapons of fate was horrible), and Most games that were ported to PC from a console.

It seems like only some game companies take it seriously right off the at(COD4 for example). From what I've read about this kind of problem over the past what... 5 years? Is that it mainly has to do with performance mice such as laser mice or ones with High polling rates that require special drivers. Not to say some people don't have it with a random 10$ Microsoft mouse.

I think BI is probably working on this right now. I've gotten my lag to a tolerable level just based on the fixes in this post. Hopefully they will release a total fix in a patch sooner or later. It doesn't really matter though. The game is great no matter if there is a little delay in your mouse or not. Its not fast paced enough to require COD4, CS:S type accuracy.

~ICE

The second post (being posted only a few pages ago) is basically a summary of this thread. Consisting of possible fixes that helped some of the people experiencing this problem, but far from all. Anyway, it's still worth a shot.

Hi all I just finished reading the 23 pages or posts on this forum

As I am new here 1stly I need to say hi to all, and thanks to those who are working on this bizarre problem.

HOWEVER I am not new to gaming I have been around since the days of wolfenstein (yes the first one with square rooms) hell I go back to zx spectrum days.

Having read all the posts I am appalled by people who come on these forums and post “I don’t have the problem†that’s great for you but very counter productive for us that do have the problem.

Further more is there any word from the developer that they are aware of this problem as I did not see a mention of this at all and well that’s just poor customer relations

We have 23 pages of posts trust me it’s a bug and a bad one that needs to be looked at it would be nice if the devs could put in even 1 line saying yes we know of it and are working on it or yes we know not going to fix it.

I originally bought operation flashpoint and loved it to the extent that I bought both expansion packs and finished the game.

When I heard of arma I was overjoyed but alas the mouse problem was there.

Now I get the demo of arma 2 and hey, the same thing that made me not buy arma 1 in arma 2 just bad ...very bad.

Will not be buying this game till it gets fixed.

I have tried all suggested fixes to no avail (for those of us that are English impaired I had NO successes)

Any attempt to say that this is a game feature is insanity if you don’t have the problem then please refrain from posting as you are just wasting time.

As I play war games with weapons of 1to1 weight ratio (that means actual weight) I do NOT take that long to bring my weapon to a stop when moving to my next target

The videos I have watched do show the problem to a LESSER degree

Summery of problem (That I have been able to garner together)

1) Only manifests itself on xp systems (unconfirmed) CORRECTION: It has nothing to do with OS. XP, Vista, W7, 32bit or 64bit; it's all the same. Confirmed by a lot of people throughout these pages.

2) Lower frame rates aggravates it (it is not frame rate dependent)Higher framerates (FPS) might give you less lag, but it won't remove it completely

3) Appears that v-sync and/or mouse smoothing could be part of the problem It's highly possible that it has something to do with this. Disabling v-sync through ATI Catalyst DOES NOT WORK <-- important reminder for those who didn't get it the 5 other times.

4) It is NOT the float zone

5) It is NOT hardware related

What may help

1) Download ati tray tools at guru3d and try forcing v-sync off

2) Using above ati tools to change the set maximum pre-rendered frames to 1 or 0

3) Disable post processing in game

4) Raised the mouse DPI and lowered the ingame sensitivity

5) Increasing you fps by lowering your ingame settings and view distance

Please feel free to alert e to any future suggestions or diagnoses or errors in my post

Hope this sums up what we are experiencing and allows us to pinpoint the problem.

Ps

my pc is an

Intel duel 3 gig

3 gigs ram

Radeon 4850

2 160gig drives

Laser mouse

For whatever that’s worth

Bottom line:

rowdied: I get it you've got quite some experience when it comes to gaming, but I'm sure it would be greatly appreciated by both me and many others if you posted a video of you showing us that you don't experience any lag. As I get it the term "lag" seems quite relative and everyone got their own objective way of determining it.

You mentioned that you wanted to pay back the community for the help you've gotten in the past, and if you want to help, this would do a whole lot :)

PS: My system spec is pretty much the same as yours with the only difference being I'm having 8gb RAM and 3x150raptors in RAID0 (divided into partitions) for my system. I'm also running W7 RC. My lag isn't as severe as many others are experiencing but it's clearly there. And it's definitely not because of faulty nor bad hardware!

EDIT: I almost solved the issue for my sake. As I've mentioned, turning off v-sync with ATI Control Center does not work, but doing it from ATI Tray Tools DO. This gave me a huge improvement when it comes the lag. Anyway, many of you might be running VIsta or W7, and ATI Tray Tools is using unsigned drivers, and it can be a mess getting it to work properly.

If you're experiencing problems with ATI Tray Tools, do this:

1. Download this: http://www.ngohq.com/home.php?page=dseo

2. Run the program and choose "test mode". Do not reboot.

3. Download this: http://filekeeper.org/download/deepxw/RemoveWatermark/RemoveWatermark_20090509.zip

4. Run the program (press y for yes and then enter in the end. This might however take a few minutes to complete, but don't worry).

5. Reboot

You will now be able to run ATI Tray Tools properly. If you havn't got it installed yet, you can download it here: http://www.guru3d.com/article/ati-tray-tools-/

What will this do? It will allow you to install unsigned drivers to your OS. However, I take no responsibility for any faults this may cause, then again, I find it 100% harmless myself.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Habitats

[funkee 0]

I've tried forcing v-sync off with ATI Tray Tools but it (the program) doesn't work with my Vista x64 SP2. I'm getting a message "access violation at adress blablabla...". not supported by this OS? :386:

setting maximal number of pre-rendered frames to 8, increased my framerate (from 48 to 54 fps in benchmark), but it has nothing to do with a mouse lag issue.

and btw, the mouse lag on Placebo's movie is noticable, I dont understand how some ppl don't feel that playing ArmA?. maybe this is an ansfer (no offence to anyone):

...At least for a hardcore gamer, there is no pleasure in playing an FPS and trying to improve your skill if the mouse doesn't correspond to where you're trying to shoot. If you're a casual gamer, see no difference either way, I don't see why you'd even argue about it...

so this is our feedback to the game, but I still cannot see any from developers to the community. am I the only one feel that we are alone and nobody hear us? :confused2:

EDIT:

thx for the tip Habitats but I can't get it to work (still getting an arror message).

Edited July 7, 2009 by funkee

[FlunkyMonkey 10]

They read the troubleshooting forum don't worry, and they also follow the bug tracker and such, the simple fact is that if you add up the available man hours for fixing bugs, improving performance and working on patches etc. etc. then deduct time spent posting on forums, replying to PM's/Emails you will see that unless they stick to absolute minimum amount of time spent posting here it really will slow down any possibility of getting the issue resolved. Don't get me wrong I know where you're coming from, I've been a gamer for 25 years, I know what it's like to not have a game working right, and you're waiting for a solution/patch and the like but unfortunately you just have to give them a little time and show a little faith :)

I am not trying to bust your balls here Placebo, but nobody is expecting every PM to get answered, we are talking about ONE post on the forums that says that they have acknowledged all the various mouselag and performance issues people are having, and that they are trying to work something out. Not even a "it will be done by x", just a post that makes use believe that they care about the fact that a lot of people are really struggling right now and they are under the impression that the game SHOULD work on their system, and that they are hanging in there with the help of people on the forums that also have real life jobs and have gotten their games working, sharing their tips with others trying to help (extensively researching how to make this game run). I am not turning my back on BIS or giving up, I just feel they are somewhat liable for that one post because they fibbed the recommended hardware reqs. a little bit.

Do you think that I am completely wrong? I know the game works for a lot of people, but it also doesn't work for a lot of people.

Edited July 7, 2009 by FlunkyMonkey

[=wfl= sgt bilko 10]

I feel deeply for you, I wouldn't be happy playing like what's showcased in those videos.

However I experience none of that myself.

I'm also amazed with all these pages and just about 3 of you posting what mouse/drivers you're actually using. And furthermore what mouse settings you have in drivers (and windows).

I have a Logitech G5, I'll post my settings when I get home to my gaming rig.

[Habitats 10]

I've tried forcing v-sync off with ATI Tray Tools but it (the program) doesn't work with my Vista x64 SP2. I'm getting a message "access violation at adress blablabla...". not supported by this OS? :386:

setting maximal number of pre-rendered frames to 8, increased my framerate (from 48 to 54 fps in benchmark), but it has nothing to do with a mouse lag issue.

and btw, the mouse lag on Placebo's movie is noticable, I dont understand how some ppl don't feel that playing ArmA. maybe this is an ansfer (no offence to anyone):

so this is our feedback to the game, but I still cannot see any from developers to the community. am I the only one feel that we are alone and nobody hear us? :confused2:

EDIT:

thx for the tip Habitats but I can't get it to work (still getting an arror message).

Seeing you're changing pre-rendered frames I take it you got an nVidia graphic card. ATI Tray Tools obviously only works for ATI cards :)

Did you try nVidia Tray Tools?

[funkee 0]

ah lol I thought it works with Geforces as well :P and now with your nVidia Tray Tools I'm getting "sorry, support for this version of Windows is currently unavailable". no luck, lol. :D have anyone else tried this (disabling v-sync with AtiTrayTools) on Windows XP? cuz I don't believe any of you guys magic "fixes". the only 1 who I believe here is Maruk, but seems like he doesn't like us anymore (since some of us have bought the game). :D

Edited July 7, 2009 by funkee

[Habitats 10]

What is it that you don't believe? I never said it fixes it, but it did help quite a lot. And the game is more or less at least playable now.

[=wfl= sgt bilko 10]

My Mouse setup (I experience none of the problems showcased in the youtube videos):

Logitech G5 the newer blue model (4.40.88 setpoint drivers)

Mouse settings in Windows:

"Enhanced pointer precision" = Disabled

Mouse Movements in SetPoint:

"Pointer speed" = middle position

"Smart Move" and "Pointer Trails" = disabled

"Pointer Acceleration" = none

Mouse Game settings in SetPoint:

"Game Detection" = enabled

"SetPoint Implementation" = enabled

"Apply GameSettings when game is detected" = enabled

"Keep mouse acc" = disabled

"Keep mouse speed" = disabled

Advanced Game Settings:

"Mouse sensitivity setting 3 (middle)": 1000

"Report Rate" = 500

"Recognized Games" = Using OpenGL and using DirectInput

[FlunkyMonkey 10]

I am not trying to bust your balls here Placebo, but nobody is expecting every PM to get answered, we are talking about ONE post on the forums that says that they have acknowledged all the various mouselag and performance issues people are having, and that they are trying to work something out. Not even a "it will be done by x", just a post that makes use believe that they care about the fact that a lot of people are really struggling right now and they are under the impression that the game SHOULD work on their system, and that they are hanging in there with the help of people on the forums that also have real life jobs and have gotten their games working, sharing their tips with others trying to help (extensively researching how to make this game run). I am not turning my back on BIS or giving up, I just feel they are somewhat liable for that one post because they fibbed the recommended hardware reqs. a little bit.

Do you think that I am completely wrong? I know the game works for a lot of people, but it also doesn't work for a lot of people.

I really want to know your opinion on it Placebo. Do you think the people have a right to get at least one update of what the BIS plan is?

[ErnieD 10]

Is it me or does this Mouse delay issue seem to be ignored?

Has BIS acknowledged this issue?

Will it ever be fixed?

It is too ridiculous to play the game until the mouse delay issue is resolved. The other suggestions people gave as far as what mouse settings to use hardly helps at all.

BTW... why would a game require someone to bend over backwards by making all kinds of setting adjustments in order to play? What do you guys do when you go to play a different game in between?... do you change all of those mouse (and other settings) back to normal and so forth?

Instead of all of us going through all of the settings changes, (that does not fix the problem anyway) How about BIS fixes the issue instead?!

[Leopardi 0]

Is it me or does this Mouse delay issue seem to be ignored?

Has BIS acknowledged this issue?

Will it ever be fixed?

Yes, 100% ignored

Probably

No, it will never be fixed

[slimSpencer 10]

hope you are wrong...

maybe they leave at least a comment on this.

[MehMan 0]

Yes, 100% ignored

Probably

No, it will never be fixed

Silence you.

I feel this lag as a kind of momentum the character gains after you move the weapon around fast. It just goes on a bit further than you'd like to and you can't control your character as smoothly and as sharply as you can in other games and that's a bad thing.

[Cracky 10]

Hi all,

In addition to the mouse lag has anyone found that the mouse and keyboard are completely locked out whenever any of your team mates say anything?

i.e. they speak and you stop walking or they speak and the mouse stops responding. After they have finished speaking everything is ok again.

It's very odd and is making the game unplayable for me!