31st Normandy mod -WW2

[Oddball 0]

Lol, I agree. I can't wait to use some WW2 stuff on ArmA . The textures can always be replaced, as long as the model is there to have fun with, we're all good .

Oddball

[joffre257 0]

Congrats to this mod for the work! i saw lots of stuff very interesting there (germans camos/LCM with tank landing and more...) keep the good work all, 15th october will be a big day for the WWII Arma communauty i think

[rip31st 98]

Pz IV H repainting process. Hope its okay so far...

[rip31st 98]

4H is complete.

Here is the new panther in work:

I will have it done by tomorrow.

[rip31st 98]

These questions get asked in the form of PM's a lot about aircraft performance and damage systems.

-Will certain aircraft out perform another?

-Will weapons on aircraft fire from one point like ArmA does?

-Will there be bombs?

-Can some planes out turn others?

-Do flaps really affect flight characteristics?

-How did you get the data for the aircraft?  Did you pull them from a hat?

-What about the damage models?  Are these made up numbers?

-Can Ai fly and land planes?  Because I can't.

Enquiring minds want to know...

So here's my answer in short:

-Max speeds for the models in the mod for aircraft were derrived from Janes. BUT...

We know that in a dive the planes are too fast - adjustments will come later.  

-Damage models are relative to a points system in Arma and where you place hitpoints on a vehicle.

The release of this as a beta is intended to get feedback which we can then extract information from and make adjustments.

All weapons systems and damage models should be relative to one another.

Aircraft performance is a touchy subject which varies in opinion from person to person.   IT's a toss up between - do you go with something realistic? - Which in Arma when it comes down to a aircraft sim is not.  OR do you go with a fair and level playing field?

This mod's intent is for people to have fun.  I don't want people complaining the air war is one sided because they picked the obvious superior fighter and stick with it.  IF I were to plug in realistic data from the history books then people are choose one thing.  So I think were going to stay away from that, or atleast give advantages for each model where it's the downfall of another and vice-versa.

The scripting allows for a vehicle to have multiple fire points.   Say like a fixed wing fighter with nose mounted and wing mounted machine guns.  This has already been addressed and is in the mod.  Aircraft will have multiple points in which they fire from.

Yes and I did model some bombs.

[rip31st 98]

Panther back in play:

Sorry my panther may not be as fancy as the last one.

[eble 3]

These questions get asked in the form of PM's a lot about aircraft performance and damage systems.

-Will certain aircraft out perform another?

-Will weapons on aircraft fire from one point like ArmA does?

-Will there be bombs?

-Can some planes out turn others?

-Do flaps really affect flight characteristics?

-How did you get the data for the aircraft?  Did you pull them from a hat?

-What about the damage models?  Are these made up numbers?

-Can Ai fly and land planes?  Because I can't.

Enquiring minds want to know...

So here's my answer in short:

-Max speeds for the models in the mod for aircraft were derrived from Janes. BUT...

We know that in a dive the planes are too fast - adjustments will come later.  

-Damage models are relative to a points system in Arma and where you place hitpoints on a vehicle.

The release of this as a beta is intended to get feedback which we can then extract information from and make adjustments.

All weapons systems and damage models should be relative to one another.

Aircraft performance is a touchy subject which varies in opinion from person to person.   IT's a toss up between - do you go with something realistic? - Which in Arma when it comes down to a aircraft sim is not.  OR do you go with a fair and level playing field?

This mod's intent is for people to have fun.  I don't want people complaining the air war is one sided because they picked the obvious superior fighter and stick with it.  IF I were to plug in realistic data from the history books then people are choose one thing.  So I think were going to stay away from that, or atleast give advantages for each model where it's the downfall of another and vice-versa.

The scripting allows for a vehicle to have multiple fire points.   Say like a fixed wing fighter with nose mounted and wing mounted machine guns.  This has already been addressed and is in the mod.  Aircraft will have multiple points in which they fire from.

Yes and I did model some bombs.  

I had the same problem when I convetred over heaps of WWII aircraft for my mates, we made a revised camel dogfight map and included WWII aircraft in place of the camels.

was Spitfire, P38, P51  vs Me109, Zero and La-5N (russian fighter I know)

worked well, no one could complain about being out turned etc, though something to remember the flight model even if it is extactly the same for every aircraft will be slightly different, as the shape of the model does affect performance.

Looking forward to playing around with this mod when it's released  

Southy

[ShrubMiK 0]

I would rather see significant differences between aircraft performance, and reasonably realistic (okay people will argue about the details), even if it turns out that some of the aircraft turn out to dominate others in the game. That can be balanced by the number of aircraft on each side in the mission, or the cost to buy them (for mission types like Warfare).

How about the tanks? You could worry about the same sort of issues there...I would certainly expect to see superior performance from a Tiger compared to a Sherman, or it won't really feel like a WW2 mod

[lugiahua 26]

I would rather see significant differences between aircraft performance, and reasonably realistic (okay people will argue about the details), even if it turns out that some of the aircraft turn out to dominate others in the game. That can be balanced by the number of aircraft on each side in the mission, or the cost to buy them (for mission types like Warfare).

How about the tanks? You could worry about the same sort of issues there...I would certainly expect to see superior performance from a Tiger compared to a Sherman, or it won't really feel like a WW2 mod

yeah, I have same ideas about airplane...

you can still have balance by giving weaker side more airplane and AA guns

But about Shermans...actually some later model Shermans (M4A3E2, M4A3E8) could take fair fight with German tanks..

hope there will be M18 and M36

both are the most powerful anti-tank weapons for US side

M18 was the fastest track vehicle in WWII(50mph), can easily outflank german tanks

M36 armed with 90mm gun and 108mm armor, enough to beat Tiger Is...

[Tomahawk1 0]

I'd say the panzer could use a bit more work, not much, but a bit more

[ShrubMiK 0]

Lugiahua, later model Shermans were quite comparable in capabilities with later model PzIVs. But still not up to the level of Panthers and Tigers.

M18 and M36 were "tank destroyers", in the US concept that basically meant good mobility, good guns, weak armour. And in particular, no top armour, so the crew were very vulnerable vulnerable to small arms fire from buildings or higher ground, or HE blast or shrapnel. M36 particualrly was better than normal Sherman in the AT role, but not as good as the Sherman Firefly.

Just quoting the maximum armour thickness that existed anywhere on the vehicle is not a good guide to how hard they were to destroy. Other factors come into play - how likely is it that a shot will hit that part of the tank at all? If the armour is sloped, it may deflect the shot, and even if it doesn't the thickenss that the shot has to penetrate through is increased because of the angle. Quality of stell and manufacturing techniques matter too.

I don't think even the 90mm gun was a match for the long 75mm in the Panther or the 88mm in the Tiger until HVAP ammunition became available, in relatively small quantities.

The nearest Western Allied tank in capability to the Panther was probably the British comet, which began to enter service at the end of 1944 and saw some combat (quite fast, heavy frontal armour but relatively weak to side aand rear, and with a 77mm gun which was basically a cut-dwon version of the 17pdr).

The nearest Western Allied tank in capability to the Tiger 1 was probably the US Pershing, which didn't even begin to enter service until well into 1945 and did not see combat action (slower, heavier all-round armour, 90mm gun with some HVAP ammunition).

If you *really* want a world-beating Western Allied tank you need to wait until shortly after the end of WW2, and the first appearance of the Centurion.

And all of this is a long lead up to...

Comet and Pershing would be very much appreciated in the mod, when somebody has the time.

And any chance of a Centurion, to cover those what-if-it-had-gone-on-longer scenarios?

[rip31st 98]

Not to put the cart before the horse guys, but the beta isn't even out. And to be fair, after the beta is released, within 24 hours thereof, I will post those damage model and flight characteristic numbers so we can compare, relate and decide where to go from there.

I do agree about the tanks. Each tank does have its advantages there. I also agree the same with the aircraft. But there has to be a balance of power in a multiplayer scenario. So if side "X" has advantage with a certain peice of equipment, then the other side needs to have some counter.

Just a heads up though. In the first release the first package is Axis heavy.

[Aqu 0]

Oh dear, I hope the dreaded tank arguing doesn't start in this forum too.

I agree with many of the earlier posts. I hope that any vehicles planes, tanks whatever have somewhat realistic performance. At least my fun is killed if I can drop a Tiger from 3 miles with a 75mm Sherman. At least I get more fun that I have to sneak close and get those side/rear hits with a less powerful tank.

Imho, one of the most important qualities of the tank is to have good optics in the gun. It doesn't help much if you have powerful gun but can't hit anything from the range where the gun should be used to get most out of it. The powerful German cannons like the 88mm Pak43 were coupled with good optics without which it would be hard to get those kills beyond 4km.

Germans too had multiple AT round types. The typical being the APCBC (armour piercing composite ballistic cap) and the more powerful APCR (AP composite rigid) but available in much smaller quatities. Especially very late in the war APCR quantities must have gotten bit low. I've read APCR would have been issued more to the tank destroyers.

So if a tank had e.g 50 rounds, of those maybe 30 were AP and of those 30 maybe at most 5 APCR. How much depends on the time of the war, what type of a tank and maybe other issues like SS prolly got more than wermacht and satellite countries even less.

If you want to compare, I have considered these somewhat equal if comparing guns mostly:

Pz-IVh/j <-> Sherman "easy eight" (76mm gun, NOT 75mm)

Panther <-> firefly

Kingtiger <-> Pershing

[rip31st 98]

The problem with Arma's game engine that limits the realism with tanks are the reticals.

There isn't a decent way to animate/adjust them that makes any sense when it comes to ranging or adjusting on a target. For example the arma animation system works on a rotational axis. If you were to rotate the range on a rectical for your tiger to get the proper range on a target, the skeleton bones system for arma would not allow for a vertical movement of the crosshairs upwards to adjust for range, instead it would circle around the range and look very strange.

There would have to be two separate skeleton systems for one retical which is beyond my scripting skills. Plus there would have to be a highly detailed very fine incremental system implemented into it using key or mouse input. Sorry folks I don't plan on spendng months working the bugs out of one retical for one tank. That's not what this is about. IF someone comes forward with the knowledge of how to do so, then sure, no problemo, it will be put into the tanks.

But don't give up hope based on that, there are always optics to counter that. optics being the amount of zooming you can do with a sight. Each tank can be adjusted properly for its zoom. Obviously certain tanks will have the advantage over others. This data will also need to be adjusted as we move forward.

The problem therein now exists with the servers visual distance limits, which I will have no control of. Most multiplayer servers are set for 1200 meters for performance reasons and gameplay. So no matter how you adjust your visual distance settings on your own PC, you won't be able to see beyond it.

The map I created for this mod, is tank friendly. It should also be one that you can crank up the visual distance. On my squads server we will be experimenting with high visual distances with these tanks to see how they work out.

Right now as it stands all tanks will have a APHE (armor piercing/high explosive) round.

That said - I know that's not realistic.

However - The damage values for each tank are different. Additional rounds will be designed as we move forward to suit the needs of each vehicle on a case by case basis. This will be routed out through beta testing and your input. You gotta realize all this stuff takes time and research and consider the incredible amount of work not to be taken for granted I have put into this effort since I began - which was not long ago.

Let the chips fall where they may for the data on these vehicles for now. Take the time to do the beta testing after Oct. 15th, give input, research and go from there.

This mod can only be as good as the person(s) making and the people testing it. IF I'm not good enough, then I must surround myself with people that have the knowledge to make it work. Hence the beta. AND THE COMMUNITY involvement.

I want all sides to be happy. But ya gotta have balance. Otherwise people won't play.

[rip31st 98]

I'd say the panzer could use a bit more work, not much, but a bit more

Can you enlighten me?

[Rafo 0]

Sweet mod, looking forward to it :P (die-hard ww2 fan   )

Just to point out, the panther's rear end was sloped and not in a 90 degree angle.

Here's a pic (thanks to wiki)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped....lli.jpg

[Aqu 0]

Just to point out, the panther's rear end was sloped and not in a 90 degree angle.

True, but I have believed the idea is to make quickly something which looks something like it and later improve them with more time

Like the Panther and Pz-IV rear wheels should be without teeths and bit smaller as they were "front wheel driven".

I would have my old 3DS4 Panther G mesh, but I can only find the project file, not the 3ds file. As I have no more 3DS I cannot open the project. I tryed to hack the mesh out of it with hex editor, but oxygen complains that there are no objects (even there clearly are those 0x0400 objects sections). Damn shame, because even it was without tracks I think the hull might have been usable in the game.  

[rip31st 98]

Here, added a bit more of an angle on the rear, took the teeth off the rear wheel.

[rip31st 98]

Pak fits nicely into the R667 style bunker. Again the Pak 38 is moveable and not static, so you can move it just about anywhere you'd like to.

[Sennacherib 0]

sorry, i'm going to be harsh.

the textures of the tanks need a lot of work, i know that the textures are not your priority, but textures are important if you want an immersive mod.

these textures seem like cardboard. maybe with some work, they would be better

I do not want to be insulting, but I want just give an opinion

good luck

[Enigma85 2]

the textures do need work,

but i,and other will get round to doing this for the final.

this mod has been progressing at such speed that getting final textures for every one of the models would be impossible for the beta.

i will try my hardest to redo some of rips textures for aircraft and tanks alike,

but all things take time

Thanks for you opinion.

hopefully you'll agree more with the final version

[rip31st 98]

the textures do need work,

but i,and other will get round to doing this for the final.

this mod has been progressing at such speed that getting final textures for every one of the models would be impossible for the beta.

i will try my hardest to redo some of rips textures for aircraft and tanks alike,

but all things take time

Thanks for you opinion.

hopefully you'll agree more with the final version

Yeah I just want to put emphasis on this. This is a beta at this stage. Nothing is final, everything is subject to change. And critisism is welcome. I agree, I'm not the artist here. But people are going to be working the textures so don't fret.

[eble 3]

I might be able to help, if needed.

I have done heaps of normal/spec maps recently, so if someone wants to pm a link to some textures I'll convert them and post em back easy really.

I made some normal/spec maps for the BSG Vipers last night in it's quite quick really.

I'll included the _nohq, _smdi and I could even apply them to the models, but I would need the p3d to apply the rvmat etc.

Let me know if I can be of help.

Southy

[rip31st 98]

Continuing on with my modeling rampage, here's a Supermarine Spitfire mk XIV:

Want to say thanks to Enigma for doing a great job on the textures!

[TankCommander 3]

Very nice work on the Spitfire Rip and Enigma

Really looking forward to the release and future progressions