Iron Lore shuts down

[berghoff 11]

Iron Lore is no more as of 02-28-08.. They had created Titan Quest and its expansion Immortal Throne which IMO were quite entertaining games despite a couple of slowdowns and other bugs.

Quote[/b] ]It is with great regret that we must announce that as of close of business Tuesday, February 19, 2008 Iron Lore Entertainment has ceased active game development. Several unrelated events occurred which resulted in Iron Lore being unable to secure funding for its next project.

An interesting post from Michael Fitch can be <span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>read here</span>

He mentions that piracy hit the game before it even was available in the stores and how their internal copy check crashed illegal games and people blaming developer of poor programming skills....

Quote[/b] ]Alright, I'm done. Making PC products is not all fun and games. It's an uphill slog, definitely. I'm a lifelong PC gamer, and hope to continue to work on PC games in the future, but man, they sure don't make it easy.

Its quite sad to see a good development studio close down because of piracy and among other things..

[turms 0]

Its easyer to blame piracy for a crappy gamesales, instead of looking into mirror and doing better games with less bugs.

[mr burns 132]

I love how he complains about pirated copys being on the net before the game went to stores .. they fail to see that warez groups dont (or very rarely lol) break into their studios to steal the pre version

As for copy protection .. just have a look at ArmA and you see that even the most evil measures must not automatically send a whole dev team into bankruptcy.

Maybe because some community members sensed that terribly inaccurate weapons and things alike are caused by cracks and kept those idiots from spreading their bullshit ... but still, it worked.

Never been interested in the game but our network had a forum section devoted for it and also some ads on the pages some time before the release. Never really kicked off, imho the marketing department is to blame. It´s a shame to see them closing though.

[sanctuary 19]

I love how people always blame piracy when they do not achieve the sales they planified.

They seem to be unable to think for a second that maybe it was the product that was not as interesting for the customers as they thought ?

Sins of a solar empire, that feature -no- copy protection at all sold 100.000 units in usa alone in the 2 first weeks of release.

[berghoff 11]

Its easyer to blame piracy for a crappy gamesales, instead of looking into mirror and doing better games with less bugs.

Yes might be.., but if you look at COD4 for example.. no noticeable bugs () while playing through campaign but yet PC sales are quite low compared to console sales ) i mean is it quite clear there is some piracy involved while it is also massively popular but I guess there can be endless disscusion about piracy it just sad that game development cost so much and not enough money is made.. I guess releasing games through steam or similair system might be good idea since no more crappy publisher is involved aswell since they were the ones that stopped the developer from patching TQ also since it didn't made enough money for them!

[MehMan 0]

I find publishers to be too much full of crap and a shitty step in game deving. They don't do nearly as much as they should for the profits they are getting, at least on the copy sold.

[mr burns 132]

I guess releasing games through steam or similair system might be good idea since no more crappy publisher is involved aswell since they were the ones that stopped the developer from patching TQ also since it didn't made enough money for them!

Steam is the seed of all evil! If anything like that happens i´ll buy a console asap

Noone should need to fiddle around with crappy online activations or things alike.

Just recently i tried to get some of the free games off of steam (a portal episode afair) and it didn´t work at all due to the completely idiotic ticket system in use.

Remember when HL2 was released? Activation servers could´nt handle the load and many customers sold their copy on the same day that they bought it. Way to show the companys that they´ve made a bad decision .. still the game got pretty popular .. same with bioshock .. stupid customers.

When i buy a game i want to have it on CD/DVD.

I want to be able to play it out of the box (pretending not everyone has inet access).

And i want to be able to install it on any PC i deem fit - as often as i like.

Online distribution can got to HE11 .. bleh

[echo1 0]

And i want to be able to install it on any PC i deem fit - as often as i like.

Online distribution can got to HE11 .. bleh

There's nothing stopping you using your Steam account on other people's PC, or at least its worked for me.. In fact, the only thing it doesn't allow you to do is use the same account on two PCs at the same time, which is quite obviously illegal...

[MehMan 0]

It's obvious that steam needs fixing but it is a step forward in online distribution if you ask me. At least a step in avoiding publishers and shops. With steam I believe more profit goes straight to the dev.

[Sheps 0]

Online distribution is a bit of a rip off it you ask me, say in 50-100 years, the company might close down, so all the games you purchased are gone, Atleast you can hold a CD.

Either way the game didn't sell cause it was rubbish, not cause of piracy.

[Guest]

piracy is like all good things, it will end...

and very soon, before only few people known were to get "illegal" stuff, now dowloading is a common thing... last'years pc users dont even understand that its forbiden, but when universal sony and people like that will get the tools to scan people drives over the web, many will have to pay a lot ...

btw piracy "hit the game" ... nothin like that exist, people downloading will never buy what they download (because of the price) and it was proved that piracy dosent make cd/dvd/... sells goes down, just said by emi, sony, universal

even downloading something, if u like it u buy it... and for pc games, illegal copies cant play online (for most)...

[Mr_Tea 0]

The good thing is, here in Germany the users of edonkey or however it´s called, and other filesharing "services" get observed what files they share.

Than they get nice visitors to home that search there PC`s and backup media.

Often this ends with thousands of euros that this people have to pay.

I hope they get them all.

Iron Lore might not had to be shut down because of software piracy, many others had to.

It`s about time, that this kid`s and others start to pay for the software they use, not only for the hardware on that they spend ridicules amounts of money.

A new PC every year, but no money for any software they use.

[stevevcb 3]

I personally blame publishers for the decline in PC gaming, not piracy. Whereas developers more than likely have an interest in games, it seems to me that publishers only have an interest in how much profit they're making. As such, they push developers to churn out formulaic crap. Then, when the developers manage to sneak out something good, or at least interesting, the publishers push them to make sequels until they've milked it dry and it's formulaic crap again.

Look at Rainbow Six: first game was as hard as it was fantastic, and did well. Rogue Spear was an improvement, and did well. Raven Shield was a further improvement, and did well. Then lo and behold, someone at Ubisoft goes "hey, these games sell quite well, but stupid people with no patience don't like them because they have to plan and shit and they die if they get shot once. Why don't you guys make one that's really easy, and sort of like an action film?"

So we end up with Lockdown and Vegas, and a series that was based on realism and being fucking hardcore ending up being all about you and your irritatingly Hollywood sidekicks squatting behind crates and firing blind on full auto. Clap clap fucking clap.

The worst part is, because there's only a handful of publishers nowadays, and they're all really fucking big and rich, any developers who aren't going to make another football management game or another third person shooter about some woman with improbably big tits have nowhere to go.

As a result, the market is saturated with flashy-looking crap that you can play through in a few hours and then never want to play again, and people walk into the shops and go "hmm, thirty quid for a game with zero replay potential that I'll have finished by tomorrow afternoon... nah, I'll pass." Hence the rise in software piracy and the decline of the format.

[Guest]

Quote[/b] ]I hope they get them all

impossible ...

Quote[/b] ]I personally blame publishers for the decline in PC gaming, not piracy

+1 for publishers/developers

[shinRaiden 0]

I guess releasing games through steam or similair system might be good idea since no more crappy publisher is involved aswell since they were the ones that stopped the developer from patching TQ also since it didn't made enough money for them!

Steam is the seed of all evil! If anything like that happens i´ll buy a console asap

Noone should need to fiddle around with crappy online activations or things alike.

Just recently i tried to get some of the free games off of steam (a portal episode afair) and it didn´t work at all due to the completely idiotic ticket system in use.

Remember when HL2 was released? Activation servers could´nt handle the load and many customers sold their copy on the same day that they bought it. Way to show the companys that they´ve made a bad decision .. still the game got pretty popular .. same with bioshock .. stupid customers.

When i buy a game i want to have it on CD/DVD.

I want to be able to play it out of the box (pretending not everyone has inet access).

And i want to be able to install it on any PC i deem fit - as often as i like.

Online distribution can got to HE11 .. bleh

Steam is a big step towards SOLVING a lot of the problems plaguing the PC side of the industry, the very issues that have encouraged the migration to consoles.

First, your arguement about online activation is bogus. Nowhere does Steam require online product activation, only Valve games and similarly designed products implement that. Entirely Optional, at the discretion of the developer and publisher.

Second, lumping the trial tickets in with generic activation is also misleading, as they're two different and unconnected technologies. You're unfairly branding the optional activation component with the unrelated and newly implemented free ticket system.

Third, similar complaints have been made about every other online distribution system ever deployed. Those complaints no longer hold water post-zero-day due to statistical averaging. The same complaint could be made about Sprocket as well, and the limited re-activation issue there, an issue that never existed in Steam. Furthermore, the activation process, and the distribution process, are significantly different components of the network infrastructure. Swiping them together is likewise misleading, as they function independently, and can be separately implemented at the discretion of the developer / publisher.

Third, a wide range of games previously CD/DVD only are now available additionally on Steam. This includes a wide range of no longer published games, for which the CD/DVD's no longer are created or stocked, by the whim of the developer/publisher.

Fourth, my steam account is installed and loaded on every PC I own. All the games I have downloaded via steam, including those that rely on Steam's authentication services and those that do no, are installed in part or in full on all the machines. I have been able to re-download previously purchased products any number of times following system rebuilds or de-installations as I see fit. Notably, no disc gets scratched each time I re-install. Steam does exactly what you demand of it in that point.

Case in point :

I went looking for a game recently. None of the major retailers carried it, although it is a recent title. All carried the expansion pack, which requires the base that they no longer sell. I finally located a 2nd tier store that had one remaining copy. It was off the rack, behind the counter. Disk 3 was damaged from manufacturing so bad that when I exchanged it the clerk said it was a "+10 epic fail" and that he'd never seen one so bad.

The problem is you look at narrow and misleading definitions of what you interpret 'Steam' to be.

@Kooky :

I agree with you, that there's a major issue with playability. While MP is nice and all, it's increasingly used as a crutch to compensate for poor balance and design and lack of content. Achievements are often further abused in a frankly insulting manner to entice the player to grind in often ridiculous manner for nonsense badges. When designers speak of 'episodic' content, they mean a grind on your wallet with little or no re-playability. I think this is part of the draw of the MMO's, is that they are the only thing providing replayability presently.

Corridor shooters, such as CoD4, are inherently extremely limited in their replayability because they lack the ability to modify the environment. Once you've cleared one level, you know how to clear them all, and it's just a matter of re-running the exact same thing just slightly different.

The big question though that has gone unanswered, is why are the premier titles on consoles vastly outselling PC ports? I don't think anyone has drawn a conclusive answer. TFA cited the oft-quoted theory of piracy. Perhaps. There's also the theory of suppressed sales due to poor reception. There's also the theory of console gamers being more receptive to episodic content. I have yet to see an exhaustive breakdown that verifiably says one or another for a given title. There's any number of possible reasons, and none of them pleasant for those who's day job is in the industry.

[MehMan 0]

One reason why console games vastly outsale the PC games is because of the really simple use. Nothing to install, no drivers to worry about, no big trouble, no hardware to catch up and yada yada, you just pop the disk in and play. Voila.

And that simplicty is in a way bad, because every game has to be dumbed down to an incredibly dumb level that if you posses half a brain you're not having fun because you're mearly thinking who put this crap on the shelves.

[mr burns 132]

bunch of text

Maybe i mixed up some of the facts *kicks brain* .. but the bottomline of my post still stands: I hate online distribution.

We could draw a line to new cars employing all kinds of high tech stuff that prevents the average user from repairing anything themselves - making it mandatory to use contracted shops.

Its a similar kind of paternalism that im not willing to take, but others do so happily with a smile on their face.

Though I see youre more experienced in that stuff so you must be right and i wont argue with your statements

[Commando84 0]

I personally blame publishers for the decline in PC gaming, not piracy. Whereas developers more than likely have an interest in games, it seems to me that publishers only have an interest in how much profit they're making. As such, they push developers to churn out formulaic crap. Then, when the developers manage to sneak out something good, or at least interesting, the publishers push them to make sequels until they've milked it dry and it's formulaic crap again.

Look at Rainbow Six: first game was as hard as it was fantastic, and did well. Rogue Spear was an improvement, and did well. Raven Shield was a further improvement, and did well. Then lo and behold, someone at Ubisoft goes "hey, these games sell quite well, but stupid people with no patience don't like them because they have to plan and shit and they die if they get shot once. Why don't you guys make one that's really easy, and sort of like an action film?"

So we end up with Lockdown and Vegas, and a series that was based on realism and being fucking hardcore ending up being all about you and your irritatingly Hollywood sidekicks squatting behind crates and firing blind on full auto. Clap clap fucking clap.

The worst part is, because there's only a handful of publishers nowadays, and they're all really fucking big and rich, any developers who aren't going to make another football management game or another third person shooter about some woman with improbably big tits have nowhere to go.

As a result, the market is saturated with flashy-looking crap that you can play through in a few hours and then never want to play again, and people walk into the shops and go "hmm, thirty quid for a game with zero replay potential that I'll have finished by tomorrow afternoon... nah, I'll pass." Hence the rise in software piracy and the decline of the format.

totally agree with this, and also games rise in price and stuff so people cant buy all the games they wanna try.

So choices are made, shall i be able to eat or should i buy a new game? Not everybody got a well paid job and wouldn't have buyed some of the games that are pirated in the first place...

cause of the reasons quoted...

been gaming since super nintendo but now a days im mainly playing pc and i own 3 original copies of armed assault and 1 of queens gambit.

Once upon a time i loved playing half-life 1 and c-s but after version 1.3 it felt like the game / mod stopped being updated with new refreshing content and just only ways to stop cheaters and squishing a bug or streamlining the game play...

One thing that is great with Bis is that they put down lot of work in their games and show that they do as much as they can do.

Bohemia interactive studios shows great ambition in what they do and thats why i buy their games and also i like the big worlds and the great freedom compared to other modern titles.

Of course Bis games aren't perfect but they have so much more content compared to other games.

[Mr_Tea 0]

No, people can`t buy all the games they want to test, that is what demos are made for.

I don`t have the money to buy all games i want too. So i only buy 1 full price title per year, the rest will get bought once it`s available at an low price. The last games i ordered cost 4.90 euro for one, and 6.90 euro for the other game.

No one need`s to play all the games in that month they come out.

The games could be less expensive without piracy, and the fucking copy protection could be left out too.

[Guest]

Quote[/b] ]Corridor shooters, such as CoD4, are inherently extremely limited in their replayability because they lack the ability to modify the environment. Once you've cleared one level, you know how to clear them all, and it's just a matter of re-running the exact same thing just slightly different

eeeh ... +1, but its easy, so like easy things, most people like it

Quote[/b] ]No, people can`t buy all the games they want to test, that is what demos are made for.

only some...

Quote[/b] ]The games could be less expensive without piracy

without taxes and big sellers that only see money... (what about ... taking care of gamers?)

Quote[/b] ] and the fucking copy protection could be left out too

+1, think serial number is enough... or just an usb, protected key... cdprotection is useless on a comp...

[stevevcb 3]

No, people can`t buy all the games they want to test, that is what demos are made for.

The problem is, in recent years demos seem to be coming out after release, or not at all in some cases. Rewind a few years, and pretty much every release had a pre-release (or at least on-release) demo. I don't know about everyone else, but back then, my decision whether or not to buy a game was based on whether or not I liked the demo (or if it ran on my rather crappy PC). If the demo was a piece of shit, I wouldn't buy the full version.

If you remove the whole try-before-you-buy side of things, you'll get more people buying stuff blind, for want of a better word. Instead of going "The Brothers of Valour 3 demo sucked, I'm not going to buy it," they end up stood in the shops going "hmm, I kind of liked Brothers of Valour 2, I suppose I'll give it a try." They hand over their hard-earned cash and when they find out that it doesn't run or you don't like it or it's just a giant piece of shit, it's too late because (and I don't know if this is an international thing, or just a British thing) returning a game which you've opened is like trying to get blood out of a stone. Result? You've got a shit game that gets uninstalled and left to gather dust on your shelf, and the publishers have made money out of you. It's the same sort of shit trick as not sending a review copy of a new game to a magazine before release, because it's a piece of shit and will get slated.

The other side-effect of not letting people legitimately try something before they buy it is that some of them will go "I'll download it and see whether or not I like it." I'm willing to bet that there are a larger number of people who'd be prepared to buy a game that they'd downloaded and liked than you'd think. Of course, no publisher is going to go "oh, sorry, we released a big bag of overpriced bollocks, that's why more people downloaded it illegally than went out and bought it." They're always going to make out that they're just the poor, innocent, massive corporate victims of a bunch of shady internet ne'erdowells.

On another note, is anyone else amused by how games get their releases pushed forwards so they're ready for Christmas or Thanksgiving or whatever? I've never once had my decision to buy a game be affected by the time of year. It's not like I woke up today and went "hmm, it's nearly St. Patrick's Day, I think I'm going to go and buy Generic Shooter 2."

[Guest]

Quote[/b] ]Of course, no publisher is going to go "oh, sorry, we released a big bag of overpriced bollocks, that's why more people downloaded it illegally than went out and bought it

[martinovic 0]

COD4 sold like ass on the PC, maybe a few hundred thousand copies, meanwhile millions of copies got downloaded.

The game sold millions on consoles.

How can you guys still argue about piracy not effecting anything?

It's often the publishers fault if we're talking about EA games and such, but most of the time the people who dl don't want to pay, it's that simple.

Anyways, you can argue against it all you want, the fact is most devs are going to consoles and canning their PC versions.

[turms 0]

COD4 sold like ass on the PC, maybe a few hundred thousand copies, meanwhile millions of copies got downloaded.

The game sold millions on consoles.

How can you guys still argue about piracy not effecting anything?

It's often the publishers fault if we're talking about EA games and such, but most of the time the people who dl don't want to pay, it's that simple.

Anyways, you can argue against it all you want, the fact is most devs are going to consoles and canning their PC versions.

The low sales of cod4 and crysis can be explained in simple: common people using pc dont have the hardware required to play them unlike console users.

You sound like there isnt piracy in consoles. That is far from the truth. Go check a torrent site and you will find everything that has been published to consoles as pirated versions also.

[stevevcb 3]

Also, it could be argued that FPS games are not as new or novel to PC gamers as they are to console gamers. What's new and exciting to someone who's only ever played console games before is a bit old hat to someone who grew up on Doom and Quake.