Problem with AI beeing to good (unhuman)

[Daniel 0]

Quote[/b] ]I also noticed that they now don't fire bust or single fire

In total agreement with Bravo and Trapper, we've had the precision turned down on our server config too. And yeah, the AI never uses single shots and staggers its fire.

[code-red 0]

For me the ai doesnt seem to dificould and i agree with Dallas, you need your cover.

I have played many hours against many ai of normal skill and when you know how to play you can get kill rates off 20-to-1 or even 30-to-1

That is very far from the real life 1:1 or 3:1

Use cover, i like bunkers and 1st floors of houses.

Sit on your knees, shoot one and go prone right away (like i would do in real life)

Give it 10-30 secs and repeat.

This can be done from behind hills to.

Flank after some kills to the next house/bunker/hill.

As for tanks, go in tanks squads or use infantery squads around you for spotting enemy.

In this game you need to be planning every step or ride very carefully.

The minute i think Rambo and im death.

And some of you people are realy a bit acting like cry babies.

Of course the enemy will shoot at you and dont stop until they kill you when they spot you, what kind of a game you think this is ?!

[bravo 6 0]

For me the ai doesnt seem to dificould and i agree with Dallas, you need your cover.

I have played many hours against many ai of normal skill and when you know how to play you can get kill rates off 20-to-1 or even 30-to-1

That is very far from the real life 1:1 or 3:1

Use cover, i like bunkers and 1st floors of houses.

Sit on your knees, shoot one and go prone right away (like i would do in real life)

Give it 10-30 secs and repeat.

This can be done from behind hills to.

Flank after some kills to the next house/bunker/hill.

As for tanks, go in tanks squads or use infantery squads around you for spotting enemy.

In this game you need to be planning every step or ride very carefully.

The minute i think Rambo and im death.

And some of you people are realy a bit acting like cry babies.

Of course the enemy will shoot at you and dont stop until they kill you when they spot you, what kind of a game you think this is ?!

Do you know how AI act/react the moment they lock you?

Did you know AI never lose your tail even if you are behind a house or a rock?

Did you know if you go around, ai continue following you as if the rock or house were not there, and the moment you appear, he kill you with 1 shot.

Did you know that AI can fire and hit even if their weapon are not directly pointing at you?

Thats right, they can fire and hit you even if their aim is wrong.

I already experienced a death with 90 degree angle from the right line of aim.

Try this: Use version 1.05 or older and shoot a radio (RT-254) in several places and you will see that the bullet will always hit same place (the top of the antena). Then you will know what i mean.

Quote[/b] ]And some of you people are realy a bit acting like cry babies

All we are looking for is good fun in coop. We want AI to stop cheating, thats what they do. We want more natural AI, more human, more realistic. We don't want Robots Nor androids and thats what they look like.. they look like stupid androids that can snipe you with an Ak47 at 1000m

With all respect to BIS team and specially Suma, they really, Really need to do something about this subject on the next patch. The way it is will not make the game better, nor more realistic.

[max power 21]

For me the ai doesnt seem to dificould and i agree with Dallas, you need your cover.

I have played many hours against many ai of normal skill and when you know how to play you can get kill rates off 20-to-1 or even 30-to-1

That is very far from the real life 1:1 or 3:1

Use cover, i like bunkers and 1st floors of houses.

Sit on your knees, shoot one and go prone right away (like i would do in real life)

Give it 10-30 secs and repeat.

This can be done from behind hills to.

Flank after some kills to the next house/bunker/hill.

As for tanks, go in tanks squads or use infantery squads around you for spotting enemy.

In this game you need to be planning every step or ride very carefully.

The minute i think Rambo and im death.

And some of you people are realy a bit acting like cry babies.

Of course the enemy will shoot at you and dont stop until they kill you when they spot you, what kind of a game you think this is ?!

Do you know how AI act/react the moment they lock you?

Did you know AI never lose your tail even if you are behind a house or a rock?

Did you know if you go around, ai continue following you as if the rock or house were not there, and the moment you appear, he kill you with 1 shot.

Did you know that AI can fire and hit even if their weapon are not directly pointing at you?

Thats right, they can fire and hit you even if their aim is wrong.

I already experienced a death with 90 degree angle from the right line of aim.

Try this: Use version 1.05 or older and shoot a radio (RT-254) in several places and you will see that the bullet will always hit same place (the top of the antena). Then you will know what i mean.

Quote[/b] ]And some of you people are realy a bit acting like cry babies

All we are looking for is good fun in coop. We want AI to stop cheating, thats what they do. We want more natural AI, more human, more realistic. We don't want Robots Nor androids and thats what they look like.. they look like stupid androids that can snipe you with an Ak47 at 1000m

With all respect to BIS team and specially Suma, they really, Really need to do something about this subject on the next patch. The way it is will not make the game better, nor more realistic.

it's easy to see the behaviour of the AI when you're playing on cadet. When your squad leader gives you a target, and the target box shows up, if the target isn't in LOS, it's often inaccurate, and the AI judges the target's position based on its last known location and vector. It's plain to see that what you're saying is not absolutely true.

[walker 0]

Did you know AI never lose your tail even if you are behind a house or a rock?

Did you know if you go around, ai continue following you as if the rock or house were not there, and the moment you appear, he kill you with 1 shot.

Hi all

Did you know when mummy or daddy used to hide behind the blanky at about 3 months possibly earlier I do not remember good from those times I realised they were behind the blanky.

When I play in ArmA MP I absolutely love popping the idiots with my 1st shot who pop out from behind the cover they just ran behind in full view of all and sundry. 1/2m Snap shot does it every time.

Apparently some of us did not learn Mommy and daddy were still behind the blanky.

I believe generals call them cannon fodder.

Kind regards walker

[bravo 6 0]

I just said what i experienced since start.

In 1.09 Ai act differently then older versions, its true. Somehow they don't follow orders though.. (but thats not the complain here)

I like the fact they don't follow your exact movement anymore even if your hiden from them and move. (they used to follow)

In other hand they are fast triggers. Way too fast for human reaction.

Observe target, identify it correctly, aim it and press fire takes certain time for a human.. but the problem here is that AIs don't need this specific time and "steps" to their job and kill.

They do it way too fast and way too good to be as realistic as desired for alot of us.

Edit: @walker: "My mommy always said there were no monsters, no real ones.. but there are."

[max power 21]

Did you know AI never lose your tail even if you are behind a house or a rock?

Did you know if you go around, ai continue following you as if the rock or house were not there, and the moment you appear, he kill you with 1 shot.

Hi all

Did you know when mummy or daddy used to hide behind the blanky at about 3 months possibly earlier I do not remember good from those times I realised they were behind the blanky.

When I play in ArmA MP I absolutely love popping the idiots with my 1st shot who pop out from behind the cover they just ran behind in full view of all and sundry. 1/2m Snap shot does it every time.

Apparently some of us did not learn Mommy and daddy were still behind the blanky.

I believe generals call them cannon fodder.

Kind regards walker

Walker brings up a good point. They say that the AI is inhumanly good, but I wonder how they compare to playing against actual humans. I'm thinking that as smart as they are, they still aren't as good as people.

[bravo 6 0]

True.

But i bet a human can't see you in the grass, nor kill you at 1000m with a ak47.

The point is: BIS needs to creat a better ballance for this AI problem. Alot of people are trying to change this SuperSuperAi on their servers.

[gsleighter 0]

Have you tried editing the PrecisionEnemy value? Drop it past .25 and you get call of duty style spray and pray, very action-movie, and I would think good for some coop. Just saying, it's been mentioned several times in this thread and all you've done is complain about how the AI needs a patch. Really, it takes 10 seconds in notepad, and your AK47 sniper issues are resolved.

[The_Captain 0]

Ai are great at offensive actions: IE, that which involves killing. tanks, choppers, and infantry are all great at pulling the trigger.

AI are unskilled at defensive, preservation actions. They're awful at preserving their own skin. Their tanks don't go hull down, their infantry don't hide behind cover, and helicopters don't pop up from behind treelines. This is their key disadvantage when compared to human players, who may not have the same quick trigger or situational awareness all the time.

On a one on one basis, I get stomped far more by humans than I do against AI. When you're outnumbered by an AI, and they fire at you without regard for their own lives.. you're in trouble. A squad of human players against a squad of AI players will usually emerge victorious, as the humans will try to preserve their own lives while the AI will simply shoot and shoot and shoot and eventually die.

Treat the AI as 'rambo' players who simply want to run forward and engage the enemy without thinking about their own skins. You'll generally win as long as you're not grossly outnumbered.

In a competitive game, 2v10 odds would be considered grossly unfair.. or at least, the team with two players would generally be expected to lose. With 2 humans versus 10 ai, we seem to expect the humans to win, and if not, it's 'unfair'. Of _course_ it's unfair.

The end.

[code-red 0]

I am a human and somehow i can have a kill rate of 30:1 on a regular base aginst this so called "super human ai"

How can it be that most people in the servers i play can have these figures most of the time?

They seem hard until you adapt, like it was pointed out several times now.

Try a different tactic dudes and it will work for most people.

If you know the ai follows you even when behind cover than APAPT give it some time and most ai will stand up and try to come at you, that is the time to come out again and kill them.

But i gues some people dont like to train their skill.

Maybe bis can put some dummy mode under the cadet mode so these people have a happy game to.

If they ai is so called "super" then i have to be realy realy super duper cause i can kill 30 of them with one life ?!

[bravo 6 0]

well super duper, you may use the default zoom that BIS gave you.. ,ie, the super duper zoom .. because that way anyone can kill 100 ais from far distance.

But what most people look for is to have this game as real as possible.

In my case i reduced the zoom on the aimpoints. I dont want binoculars while using Aimpoints.

Some prefer a bigger zoom on them to kill the bots.

These subject isn't linear as it seems.

[sickboy 13]

Don't feel for reading this whole thing

Few notes:

[*] v1.09beta AI is a lot better balanced imho

[*] You have a difficulty and accuracy slider (at least, I know you can change the values inside your name.ArmAProfile

[*] AI not listening to you is afaik a side effect of the changes made by True Range AI etc.

[Maddmatt 1]

well super duper, you may use the default zoom that BIS gave you.. ,ie, the super duper zoom .. because that way anyone can kill 100 ais from far distance.

The zoom is there for a reason that has been explained many times. If you think it's unrealistic and refuse to use it, that's your problem

I still haven't seen any AI score a headshot at 1000m with an AK74 (there is no AK47, it seems many people can't tell the difference). In fact, the AI don't even seem to open fire at 1k.

Their are problems with the AI, but their accuracy isn't one of them. Until even good players get a kill rate lower than 1:1, the AI isn't super human. It isn't even close to human.

If you want to AI to have crappy aiming, then reduce their precision by editing your profile file. That has also been explained many times (even in this thread).

[Trapper 0]

Yeah code-red you're the uber gamer! 30:1 wow! Will I ever be able to achieve that?

How does it come that all what you "real warriors" are talking about is a kill/death ratio?

Is it because you're not interested in completing SP scenarios with acceptable losses for you accompanying AI mates without save game cheat? Hiding behind your cover, waiting till all the friendly AIs are slaughtered and then outsmarting the oh-so-dumb enemy AI with cover, is that the strategy?

How it can be that most peoples on your servers have the same figures?

Did you ever take the time to find out about the server's difficulty settings?

I don't know about your server but the servers on which I used to play Evolution coop a year ago (when the AI was even more robotic) had dumbed down AI settings + lag bonus + no grass.

Are you really asking for an AI that finally will give you the praised realistic rate of 1:1 or 3:1 kills by setting their "shooting faster hitting first" ability sky high above human? And all without improving their strategic movements and awareness (more a mission designer's task anyway).

What will be the result? Restarting your coop mission again and again after five minutes? Oh yes, those realistic 100% perfect AI riflemans would be the perfect way to show everyone, that ArmA is so realistic that a group of civilian participants with a plan will die in less than five minutes in a combat zone.

Hm, one moment, why would it turn out almost the same +/- one minute with real soldiers, used to computer games, playing the same scenario?

I don't know much about the OFP WarGame League Mod but it's goal was realism and when I tested it once, I don't remember to be made looking like a fool in every Human/AI firefight.

Those incomplete user difficulty menu settings for AI are one of the worst changes from OFP to ArmA. - Leave it to the guy designing a scenario BIS, SuperAI is option enough for users!

EDIT:

[*] You have a difficulty and accuracy slider (at least, I know you can change the values inside your name.ArmAProfile

That's part of this problematic discussion. In game you'll only find the AISkill slider and it sets AIPrecision accordingly. (already reported in the beta topic now)

There's no need to reduce AISkill from 1.0, but for reducing AIprecision there definitely would be a use.

[bravo 6 0]

Don't feel for reading this whole thing

Few notes:

[*] v1.09beta AI is a lot better balanced imho

[*] You have a difficulty and accuracy slider (at least, I know you can change the values inside your name.ArmAProfile

[*] AI not listening to you is afaik a side effect of the changes made by True Range AI etc.

thanks sickboy.

a light was turned on at last.

I opened the name.ArmAProfile and i had it at max thats why.

Now that i changed the values they don't have that incredible aim and precision that i told before.

[code-red 0]

well super duper, you may use the default zoom that BIS gave you.. ,ie, the super duper zoom .. because that way anyone can kill 100 ais from far distance.

But what most people look for is to have this game as real as possible.

In my case i reduced the zoom on the aimpoints. I dont want binoculars while using Aimpoints.

Some prefer a bigger zoom on them to kill the bots.

These subject isn't linear as it seems.

Well i never use the sniper gun and i dont like the aimpoint (for me) i use iron sights only and use them on close combat from within a building, corner of building or in a bunker.

Thats how you can still get 30:1

Im sure you can do it to

[Dallas 9]

This is not about being all that and more, I'm certainly not. It's about understanding that ArmA demands something of the player and that it punnish him, whenever he does not use common infantry basics.

[code-red 0]

a light was turned on at last.

I opened the name.ArmAProfile and i had it at max thats why.  

Now that i changed the values they don't have that incredible aim and precision that i told before.

Man 3 pages of posts before you find that it was your own settings, and not BIS.

lol

Happy gaming.

[sickboy 13]

Man 3 pages of posts before you find that it was your own settings, and not BIS.

lol

Happy gaming.  

Thats the usual deal of the generic BI Forums population (no harm meant to bravo6);

[*] Cry

[*] Complain

[*] Whine

[*] Spil guts about it

[*] Try to be cool to others by making stupid jokes about it

[*] And then they figure out they have it in their own control

People seem to rather jump the bus and complain, instead of searching for their own solutions or constructively working together towards such solution.

Another issue that's displayed is the bad information dispersion I was talking about in some other threads already.

Problems like these could be brought back to a lower amount if such details and information is more easy accessible

[bravo 6 0]

sickboy is right, more easy and accessible info could help people in these cases.

I can explain why i reported this problem, i normally save the "name.ArmAProfile" as backup so i woun't need to set keys over and over on every installation from zero.

When i used the last "name.ArmAProfile", it was from 1.08, and AI surelly suffered a change, so i got the improvement on 1.09 plus the extra a added to 1.08.

Since i don't know much about the subject, and i need to know for my future missions, i would like to ask:

If i go to a server will my "name.ArmAProfile" (skillFriendly,skillEnemy,precisionFriendly,precisionEnemy) settings be present as i set or will the server change then aswell?

Sorry for ignorance.

[sickboy 13]

Since i don't know much about the subject, and i need to know for my future missions, i would like to ask:

If i go to a server will my "name.ArmAProfile" (skillFriendly,skillEnemy,precisionFriendly,precisionEnemy) settings be present as i set or will the server change then aswell?

Sorry for ignorance.

The server determines this setting for everyone. As such it's important that this information reaches out far so server admins can tune their skill/accuracy setting to a level where it is pleasant for the players they serve.

Esp that last bit is important, hardcore players like Dallas and me would keep the settings high on our servers. I for one would balance the loss of the ai's extra accuracy etc by enhancing AI tactics etc.

[bravo 6 0]

Since i don't know much about the subject, and i need to know for my future missions, i would like to ask:

If i go to a server will my "name.ArmAProfile" (skillFriendly,skillEnemy,precisionFriendly,precisionEnemy) settings be present as i set or will the server change then aswell?

Sorry for ignorance.

The server determines this setting for everyone. As such it's important that this information reaches out far so server admins can tune their skill/accuracy setting to a level where it is pleasant for the players they serve.

Esp that last bit is important, hardcore players like Dallas and me would keep the settings high on our servers. I for one would balance the loss of the ai's extra accuracy etc by enhancing AI tactics etc.

Ok Sickboy, thanks.

So does this mean that its total irrelevant what AI skill i put in editor? No matter what level i give them in editor they will end up using the server setting, i got it right?

[sickboy 13]

Ok Sickboy, thanks.

So does this mean that its total irrelevant what AI skill i put in editor? No matter what level i give them in editor they will end up using the server setting, i got it right?

I _believe_ the skill of an AI unit is calculated:

Skill set in editor * Skill set in difficulty (server in case of MP) = Unit Skill.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Well, 23 out of 100 times ofpforum.

I don't think that is how its calculated (After all it wouldn't take the 'arm swaying'+'target dodging' factors into account), but i may be mistaken. (Personally i found any setting below 0.5 too easy)