Helicopter flight model sucks

[This kid 1]

I really REALLY hate the current helicopter flight model. I would much rather have the good old OFP flight model back.

Does anybody know what it would take to change the way helicopters fly in ArmA?

Is there any way I can do this myself?  I know how to dePbo and edit config.cpp.

[343rdBadger 0]

You and I'm sure a million others wish the same thing,......why bis can't get this through their heads is beyond us.I have to say that just about everytime ,and with just about everyone we've flown with ,has said this exact same thing.That speaks volumes.

[Lor 0]

Oh great. THIS thread again.

[Commando84 0]

aw cmon its not bad at all, just get used to it and it works very well! Give it some time and play test and play test in the mission editor, download some mission play them as pilot, go online in evolution after a while. Choppers are great now after the patches and all. btw i also hated flight model for choppers from the beginning but now i enjoy flying 'em. Only thing i still dislike is flying the harrier though laser guided bombings are so rewarding when you see stats list and got 30 kills in 1 hit

[This kid 1]

It's not "THIS thread again". I wasn't suggesting BIS should change the flight model. I was wondering if it was possible for ME to change it. That's why this post goes in the Addons and mods category, and not in the complaints thread.

By editing config-files I can make a truck or tank move faster, have other weapons and have more armour. Is there something I can edit to change the flight model?

I would like to know if it is possible before I start wasting my time.

Does anybody know?

[max power 21]

You can build your own helicopters and weight their vertices in order to balance some handling characteristics... but there's nothing you can do to the engine itself.

[.COMmunist 0]

It is very much possible. One Russian kid had changed the configs on RHS Hinds. It is easier to attack with AT missiles and it he changed the helicopter handling a little. So, yes, seems like it is possible. Ask RKSL guys, they seem to be the flying masters around here. So is Gnat, Col. Sanders (he always knows everything), Franze and many other guys here.

[castun 0]

I've gotten pretty used to the helicopter physics by now, they're not bad at all. What need fixed is the airplane physics.

They handle like ground vehicles. Example, the ground vehicles cut throttle when you turn the wheel sharp enough to the left or right. The airplanes are the same way, if you pull back or push the stick far enough your throttle cuts out.

So if you're in a dive and trying to pull out of it, you stop gaining speed even though you're still in a dive. Also took a while to figure out how to keep the plane from 'stalling' by not pulling the stick back.

[max power 21]

I've gotten pretty used to the helicopter physics by now, they're not bad at all. What need fixed is the airplane physics.

They handle like ground vehicles. Example, the ground vehicles cut throttle when you turn the wheel sharp enough to the left or right. The airplanes are the same way, if you pull back or push the stick far enough your throttle cuts out.

So if you're in a dive and trying to pull out of it, you stop gaining speed even though you're still in a dive. Also took a while to figure out how to keep the plane from 'stalling' by not pulling the stick back.

The planes in ArmA *do* deploy their speedbrakes when they have their throttle cut... the ones that have speed brakes, at any rate. Cutting the throttle in ArmA is a blanket command 'slowdown'. It's not directly related to the throttle itself in any way. The AI controls the throttle and other controls given what you're telling it to do: speed up, remain the same, or slow down.

[super64 0]

Its no flight sim. But after you spend a lot of time in the helo's they actually aren't bad.

[Panda-PL- 0]

Its no flight sim.  But after you spend a lot of time in the helo's they actually aren't bad.

Most people don't notice because they've learned how to fly ArmA chopper, not how to fly a chopper. You can fly a chopper well in ArmA but trying the same things with real chopper would get it crashed, and so is trying things that would work IRL getting you killed in ArmA.

An example of what could possibly be easilly fixed:

Well, have you noticed you loose controll above certain speed?

I go into shallow dive and fire FFAR from far away - the real life way to attack an area target (for precision strikes the dive is more steep) - and when it's time to break the gun run I pull the stick and... nothing happens, the chopper flies hapilly into the ground 5 seconds later.  

If there was some propperty like "speedAffectSteering" I could set it to much lower value nad have the bug resolved. I could then fly the chopper according to IRL tactics, not ArmA logics.

The problems with other things can be harder to fix: like lift force being calculated only from collective and rotor RPM, and not the real angle of attack of rotor blades (in other words, banking the chopper backwards and breaking should bring it up even if collective is set to 0). Or the problem with non-existent autorotation (not gaining any rotor RPM from airflow trougth the rotor).

There have to be parameters describing handling: try to do airlon roll in both Littlebird and Cobra: Cobra banks 2x faster despite higher mass. It has to be coded somewhere.

[castun 0]

I've gotten pretty used to the helicopter physics by now, they're not bad at all. What need fixed is the airplane physics.

They handle like ground vehicles. Example, the ground vehicles cut throttle when you turn the wheel sharp enough to the left or right. The airplanes are the same way, if you pull back or push the stick far enough your throttle cuts out.

So if you're in a dive and trying to pull out of it, you stop gaining speed even though you're still in a dive. Also took a while to figure out how to keep the plane from 'stalling' by not pulling the stick back.

The planes in ArmA *do* deploy their speedbrakes when they have their throttle cut... the ones that have speed brakes, at any rate. Cutting the throttle in ArmA is a blanket command 'slowdown'. It's not directly related to the throttle itself in any way. The AI controls the throttle and other controls given what you're telling it to do: speed up, remain the same, or slow down.

I'm not sure what you're saying. I think you misunderstood me.

I'm talking about how the airplanes automatically cut their own throttle if you've got the flight control stick far enough forward or backward, even if you have the throttle at max.

Like I said, if you're in a dive with full throttle and no input from the flight control stick, you gain speed. As soon as you start to pull back on the stick to pull yourself out of the dive, you start to lose speed even if you have the throttle at full still. How is it physically possible to lose speed while you're still in a dive at full throttle? If it's because the game deploys the brakes automatically, then this system needs fixed.

A related problem is also, if you're trying to fly level but don't have enough speed to climb, you've got to keep the stick pulled back enough to keep the plane from nosing into the ground. Of course, the problem with this, as you try to pull back on the stick to keep altitute, you're losing speed because of the aforementioned problem.

[max power 21]

I've gotten pretty used to the helicopter physics by now, they're not bad at all. What need fixed is the airplane physics.

They handle like ground vehicles. Example, the ground vehicles cut throttle when you turn the wheel sharp enough to the left or right. The airplanes are the same way, if you pull back or push the stick far enough your throttle cuts out.

So if you're in a dive and trying to pull out of it, you stop gaining speed even though you're still in a dive. Also took a while to figure out how to keep the plane from 'stalling' by not pulling the stick back.

The planes in ArmA *do* deploy their speedbrakes when they have their throttle cut... the ones that have speed brakes, at any rate. Cutting the throttle in ArmA is a blanket command 'slowdown'. It's not directly related to the throttle itself in any way. The AI controls the throttle and other controls given what you're telling it to do: speed up, remain the same, or slow down.

I'm not sure what you're saying. I think you misunderstood me.

I'm talking about how the airplanes automatically cut their own throttle if you've got the flight control stick far enough forward or backward, even if you have the throttle at max.

Like I said, if you're in a dive with full throttle and no input from the flight control stick, you gain speed. As soon as you start to pull back on the stick to pull yourself out of the dive, you start to lose speed even if you have the throttle at full still. How is it physically possible to lose speed while you're still in a dive at full throttle? If it's because the game deploys the brakes automatically, then this system needs fixed.

A related problem is also, if you're trying to fly level but don't have enough speed to climb, you've got to keep the stick pulled back enough to keep the plane from nosing into the ground. Of course, the problem with this, as you try to pull back on the stick to keep altitute, you're losing speed because of the aforementioned problem.

Maneuvering any aircraft, especially sharply, will result in an increase in its angle of attack. The increased frontal cross section presented to the airflow will cause a dramatic increase in drag. Depending on the power-to-weight ratio, the amount of thrust available, the wing loading, and other factors, the aircraft may slow down. This all in real life. This is possibly what they are simulating. It is not unrealistic. The aircraft's throttle is unaffected in that situation in ArmA. You can hear the pitch of the engine noise it plays is directly correlated to the amount of thrust it's issuing. The pitch of the engine sound doesn't change, but its speed does, therefore it must be a change in the drag force, or whatever approximation is programmed into the flight model.

What I was saying before is that if you have the 'throttle' set on 'remain the same' or 'cruise' or whatever, the aircraft will attempt to keep a sensible speed. That means if you climb, the engines will spool up, and if you dive, it will deploy the speed brakes. If you close the 'throttle' the aircraft will try to slowdown all the time by shutting down the engine and deploying the brakes. If you have it wide open, the aircraft will try to speed up all of the time, using full engine power.

If you experience different behaviour than that, as you are describing the engine cutting off when you pull up when you are hitting the fast forward button, then there may be something up with the way your controls are set up or something.

[miles teg 1]

Nope, I noticed the exact same thing he is describing and I fly with a mouse and keyboard. The engine thrust does not seem to want to respond when I do a tight turn for example and I start to lose altitude rapidly unless I get out of the turn and pull up at the same time. It really is quite annoying on high performace fighter aircraft that should not have their nose fall like that below the horizon especially when equipped with sophisticated fly-by-wire flight control systems and when they are not flying below their stall speeds. Nevertheless, as long as I am careful I can still fly around without crashing most of the time and at least now I can do barrel rolls and loops....something difficult on most OFP planes (aside from some of the more maneuverable ones like the DKMM OV-10 Bronco). Hopefully with future updates, BIS will improve some of these issues, but if not, I don't think it'll kill the game or anything.

However back to the helicopter handling, at first I also REALLY hated it as I was accustomed to OFP. There is no question that OFP helicopters are vastly easier to fly. However after I got accustomed to it, I began to really like the new ArmA helicopter flight system alot. Furthermore one thing you NEVER see in OFP is helicopters banking. For example when you have a pair of Cobra gunships on a seek and destroy waypoint, they take up an orbit around a target area and circle around banking sharply much as real helicopters fly. So in other words, now the helicopters perform in a much more realistic manner that really looiks amazing from the ground if you watch the AI flying them or other players. It feels more like I'm in an actual combat zone watching real helicopters flying around. The only tricky part is landing without the assistance of the special hover mode....that is a bit tricky but of coarse is solved by just going into hover mode or whatever its called that makes the helicopter movements less sensitive.

Now....I'm just waiting for a kick ass CH-53 Super Sea Stallion addon with a kick ass thundering rotor blade/engine sound like they have in real life.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[BraTTy 0]

I found it weird at first too.

But I saw posts from a lot of actual helicopter pilots say its more realistic and don't change it.

Suppose if you want it more arcadish

Only a few config settings that you can change really, you would have to mess with the geometry some

[castun 0]

Nope, I noticed the exact same thing he is describing and I fly with a mouse and keyboard.

I use the standard all in one joystick & throttle setup, so it's not a problem with my controls.

I don't have any problems with the way the AV-8 handles, except for the fact that when you hover it doesn't lose altitude fast enough. The problem I have is when flying the A-10s. Because they are generally slower, it seems they have a bigger problem.

If you've got the throttle turned down a good bit in a shallow dive attempting to strafe a target with the A-10, it's hard to pull up out of even a shallow dive simply because you lose too much speed as you pull back. If you manage to get your nose up to where you're gaining altitude, you have to let go of the stick to keep it from stalling because you're losing speed. Even if you have full throttle.

From what you're saying, even if I have a throttle axis on my controller where I can precisely set the amount of throttle I need, the computer still interferes with the throttle / brake system on the aircraft. That is what needs fixed because that is what's happening. Because now that you mention it, the airplanes run at either full throttle or none. Depending on how fast you're going and where you have the throttle set at dictates when to turn the engines on or off.

And now that you mention it, if you're flying the aircraft and slowly move the throttle down, you can hear your engines running at full tilt until you reach a certain point at which they're shut off. If you leave the throttle set at that point and lose too much speed, the engines will come back on until it gets you up to a certain speed.

It's just completely goofy!