RACS M60A3

[VIPER SHIVA 0]

Frankly, I think it's up to the modder what values he thinks his representation should have. I don't personally have any deep-seated involvement in this mod at all.

But I do like to encourage realistic, as well as playable mods, and I can see something unproven getting unbalanced really quick. He asked for our input, and this is mine. It's impossible to say how successful something is, without having to prove if the claims you've been making are true or not- until shots are fired and lot of young boys get killed.

Heh. I get carried away.

But seriously, in an actual armor battle against the US, perhaps in the WWIII scenario of a million Soviet MBTs rolling into West Europe, those tanks would be taken out by more than twice as many defending ATGMs- well before they collided with Nato's own tank forces.

BTW, if you'll notice, none of the missiles I named are SALH-guided.

The Maverick-G is IIR/man-in-the-loop weapon. IRL, it's got a range in excess of 25km. Bad for tank.

Hellfire-K is millimetric radar guided, range 10km. Bad for tank.

Javelin is EO guided, top attack, fire and forget. Bad for tank.

Why did I name those? They are what's currently in use, and therefore, what we see in game. IRL, these weapons have actually proven themselves in combat, and constantly receive maintenance and improvements. When required, I can expect that missile to do what the vast majority of those fired in anger before it have done- go out and kill the tank. And do it better this time.

That Cold-War type of MBT-dominated warfare is gone and over with, when tank development practically ceased in Russia. What's more, the West has poured treasure and technology into the ATGM sector, world-wide proliferation of ATGM's is at an all-time high. One Longbow Apache gunship can kill 16 MBTs in a single sortie.

It should be no surprise that this is the case, massive numbers of advanced ATGMs was the most effective means for combatting a million Soviet tanks. The West got very good at it.

[quiet_man 8]

Got a bit bored today. M60A3 driver position is still problematic and I'm not happy with it so I did something else and ported T-90 from OFP to ArmA.

Does anyone have a glue how effective the Å tora really is?

Was it modeled in OFP somehow?

hey Törni,

you started a new cold war!

be more careful when being bored next time!

QuietMan

[malick 0]

Yep...

This Shtora vs everything else debate is getting quite long.

What I say : nothing better than a good old WW2 tank fighting, which is exactly what we have in ArmA as long as we do not have IR, range finder and believable AI behaviour.

Malick

[archbishop lazarus 24]

Beside the Shtora, the T-90 is also equipped with Kontakt-5 heavy ERA, and it can defeat even APFSDS rounds. I heard that the tank is IMMUNE to the 120 mm sabot:

Jane's International Defence Review 7/1997, pg. 15:

"IMPENETRABLE RUSSIAN TANK ARMOUR STANDS UP TO EXAMINATION

"Claims that the armour of Russian tanks is effectively impenetrable, made on the basis of test carried out in Germany (see IDR 7/1996, p.15), have been supported by comments made following tests in the US.

"Speaking at a conference on Future Armoured Warfare in London in May, IDR's Pentagon correspondent Leland Ness explained that US tests involved firing trials of Russian-built T-72 tanks fitted with Kontakt-5 explosive reactive armour (ERA). In contrast to the original, or 'light', type of ERA which is effective only against shaped charge jets, the 'heavy' Kontakt-5 ERA is also effective against the long-rod penetrators of APFSDS tank gun projectiles.

"When fitted to T-72 tanks, the 'heavy' ERA made them immune to the DU penetrators of M829 APFSDS, fired by the 120 mm guns of the US M1 Abrams tanks, which are among the most formidable of current tank gun projectiles.

Richard M. Ogorkiewicz"

Fofanov's page

For the addon, I think the best is that the two tanks (m1&T90) are equal in power

[LordNeuro*Serbia* 0]

I found a short movie about sthora o r what so u can see it.

[Second 0]

New ERAs are monsters. Saw some figures about Black Eagle... "Kaktus" ERA is expected to add armor's resistance against HEAT by 2 times and against KE (sabot) 1.6 times.

So T-80 with Kontakt-5 heavy ERA would have about 800mm RHA against KE in frontal turret... T-90 has 10% more armor so maybe it would make nearly 900mm RHA. T-72... it has about 400mm RHA by default (if i remeber right)... hmm it would make bit more than 600mm RHA.

T-90's sabot rounds are weaker than M1A1's, as it's automatic loader prevents using optimal lenght (they are considered to be too short). ATGM-missile (AT-11 sniper was it?), is superfast, and penetration is maybe 600-700mm of RHA. Accuracy was mentioned to be very good to maximum distance, by russian sources... But Russian's ATGM techology hasn't proven me, but i would guess that unreliable missiles were just temporary problem in dusk of Soviet Union (not enough proper materials so they were replaced with not so proper materials?).

But yeah... It might be better to keep T-90 equal to M1. Some adjustments to direction or other, but in grand scale they seems to be equal.

[MehMan 0]

I just tested this addon and I gotta say:

SWEET! This is just something the RACS needed and it brings back the ol' OFP feeling. It's just about equal to the T72 which is just perfect.

Can't wait for your future releases man, hopefully some more armour for the SLA.

[Törni 0]

Quote[/b] ]hey Törni, you started a new cold war!

My guess is that Cold War never ended. It only took a short break and transformed itself into a new form.

But back to topic which was how it would be reasonable to present Shtora in ArmA? So far T-90 fights with armor value of 850. The ability to use AT-missiles is a killer for AI at least.

Had a small break, but work will continue. Expect something new next week.

EDIT2: ERA does not cover the entire tank - and ArmA's vehicle damage system beign what it is it will be very hard to get a 1:1 accurate presentation.

EDIT3: Seems that Vilas has also been working on a T-90 addon???

[CameronMcDonald 146]

I wouldn't worry about Vilas' T90. Keep working on your own, the more, the merrier. I mean, you don't seem fazed about our Hungarian friend's tank?

[Törni 0]

Why should I? It is easy to add more and more detail. Keeping the poly count within limits is the trick

EDIT: The T-90 has (currently) modern Russian camo and fully detailed interiors.

[mechastalin 0]

Why should I? It is easy to add more and more detail. Keeping the poly count within limits is the trick

EDIT: The T-90 has (currently) modern Russian camo and fully detailed interiors.

Is it based off an OFP model? If its the one I'm thinking off I can throw up some very nice looking normal and spec maps for it.

[malick 0]

This is good news...

Mechastalin is right : don't stop doing something because someone else is doing the same thing. We can then chose the best product ! How beautiful is our consumers' society

How are our older friends doing (T55/M60) ? Any screen or new features ?

Malick

[Törni 0]

Quote[/b] ]How are our older friends doing (T55/M60) ? Any screen or new features ?

Both have interiors now too. Been working on them side by side. T-55 needs still a bit more work to make it ok. I found pictures from authentic tracks for example so I'm doing some re-texturing next.

Next week there is going to be new releases and updates

@Mecha - if you want to do mapping that is fine with me. Have not yet reached that far. Been busy with the basic functionality.

[Törni 0]

Let's kick the weekend off with an update.

Link to the 1.2 version:

http://rapidshare.com/files/44039386/M60A3_1.2.zip.html

[mechastalin 0]

Im completely up for setting up maps as long as the model doesn't have 40,000 textures.

[Törni 0]

Lot of bits and pieces and with interiors it even got worse

@Mecha - Want to give it a go? Cleaning up the texture hell is going to be a major thing for the next 1.3.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Ah, texture merging, such a pain in the arse, yet so satisfying to finish (if you don't screw up, hehehe).

Mecha, you might want to consider doing it for your BMD1, as well, but I spose that's another story.

[Red Devil 0]

Cleaning up the texture hell is going to be a major thing for the next 1.3.

theres a 1.3 due on the M60A3?

I'll stop reskinning the 1.2 version then.

If you are going to alter the mapping, consider enlarging the size of the deck texture. I was going to give normal and specular mapping a go as well. (first time)

[manzilla 1]

This is just speculation but I'm not sure if you need to stop the reskin. It seems he has gone MIA. here hasn't been any post from him in a month. He released the AA truck and poof.... I hope everything is alright with him. I really enjoy what he has released so far. Hopefully, eventually he will grace us with that T-55 he was working on.

Regardless, I was looking forward to your reskin.(Along with many others I imagine) I hope you carry on.

[malick 0]

Törni has been silent for quite a while now, in all his threads. If he reads these lines, maybe he'll give an answer sooner or later. That's really a pity, because I was looking forward to his addons, like an updated M60 and a good old T55.

Don't stop your reskinning, Red Devil ! It looks good so far. Do you plan on adding normal maps, too ? Or maybe they are already there and I didn't notice

It would be great if Törni could authorize anyone to modify and improve on his addons.

Malick

[Törni 0]

Well hello there everyone. Work has kept me busy atm. But the re-skin is looking very nice indeed  

So far I have had very little time for ArmA modding, but I'll try to catch up. First I have to see what has been happening while I was away - lot I guess.

[malick 0]

Hello Törni !

It's nice to hear from you ! I hope you find the time to catch up, but don't worry, things are going slower in ArmA than for OFP.

Welcome back

Malick