"Off-road" Vehicles

[Sand Flea 0]

Is it just me or do vehicles move unusually slow on unpaved terrain? I would understand slower than a paved road, but one is able to run faster than most vehicles offroad. Even the "off-road" struggles when it is "off-road". Even the hummer is fairly constricted to the roadways. On flat dirt terrain the vehicles move like they are in quicksand or something.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

Yup. Here goes my vote for the return of Joe Lemonade's Buggys!  

Edit: With the nitro script, of course...

[mattxr 9]

Yeah those dune buggys were the shit man!  

[wamingo 1]

You try driving Your skoda over farmland...

[baddo 0]

Yes it does not feel like normal.

I've had the pleasure of driving a Soviet-manufactured 6-wheel-drive military off-road truck for a couple of months as my duty in various conditions, grass, sand, ice and in over 50 centimeters of snow. I've also driven the UAZ 4-wheel-drive vehicle, plus Finnish-manufactured 4- and 6- wheel-drive military trucks. Compared to my real life experiences with military wheeled vehicles I say that the vehicles slow too much when not over tarmac in ArmA.

I drove the 6-wheel-drive vehicle on many occasions as fast as was possible in quite harsh conditions and I think ArmA really slows the vehicles too much when not on tarmac. I know from experience that quite a good speed can be maintained on non-tarmac surfaces also, if the vehicle does not sink significantly to the terrain and the surface is level enough. Often I drove practically flat out in a level but somewhat muddy grass field, being careful that my head doesn't hit the roof of the cabin. You get the picture when I say that I could not, at those speeds, sit on the seat, I was just hanging onto the steering wheel with a foot on the gas pedal and tried to avoid hurting myself in the process. This kind of driving, I can imagine, can happen in an event of war so it was good to practice it too.

One condition in which I had problems to keep the vehicle up to speed was when I had to follow a group of BMP's into a very muddy groove (tank groove as we used to say) in a forest, there the tanks had not much problems but my wheeled vehicle started to really struggle to keep up with the tracked vehicles. I had full power but could only barely keep up with the tanks and the speed was not high. I think this situation equals to how ArmA simulates the vehicle speeds on a surface like what visually looks like a grass field, the vehicle seems to be slowed down like the deep mud in the tank groove did.

One possibility is that BIS actually wants to simulate a worse terrain than is visible for us in the game. If they want us to think that the terrain is so soft that the vehicle actually sinks into it enough to slow it down significantly (like in mud or snow). But when the ground looks to be just a level grass field and the vehicle doesn't seem to sink into it then it doesn't feel right at all.

[Baff1 0]

Same for me, I got an old WW2 5 ton truck up to about 30MPH on flat mown parkland, but it was bouncey and not massively controlable.

I've taken my land rovers across fields, wetland and mountain sides, my average speed completely off road would be walking-jogging speed.

There is just too many ways to destroy the vehicle to drive it fast.

[leckig 0]

I can only agree. The same problem i had with the OFP - even tanks had trouble going up on not so steep hills.

I also vote for reducing the effect. It is very annoying.

[Sand Flea 0]

You try driving Your skoda over farmland...

We aren't talking about civillian Czech knock-off VW's here. We are talking about the High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle of the United States Military.

[hailstorm 4]

you think that's bad, try taking the TT650 off-road. the dirtbike only manages 55 kmh on grass! anyone with a real trailbike can tell you that you can go much faster than 55 in real life. even a 125cc tbike is able to crack 100kmh on open terrain.

don't forget, in times of war, you're not going to be concerned that your vehicle ride is 'uncomfortable' you're going to be more concerned that you're *still* within firing range!

[fasad 1]

I believe it is an attempt to simulate roughness of natural terrain (since ArmA cannot visually portray any terrain features less than 10m or so). To avoid damage, the driver automatically slows down.

I agree the slowing effect is a little overdone, and the vehicles don't bounce around enough to suggest why going slow is such a good idea.

[Guest Ti0n3r]

It's just something they didn't have time to fix I guess. And it's the kind of issue they should fix for the next patch.

[hailstorm 4]

I believe it is an attempt to simulate roughness of natural terrain (since ArmA cannot visually portray any terrain features less than 10m or so).

maybe, but ArmA is also 'simulating' vehicles expicltly designed to handle such rough terrain! the TT650, HMMWV, Off-Road (Toyota Hilux) are just a few examples of these! maybe it's just where i live, but i'm pretty sure these vehicles can handle the rolling, sloping hills of sahrani.

To avoid damage, the driver automatically slows down.

why can't the players then have control over this? i wanna have the choice to either thrash it (and possibly damage my vehicle in the process) or go slower. if i'm in a situation where i'm getting shot at, i'd take the former, thank you.

[fasad 1]

Quote[/b] ]why can't the players then have control over this? i wanna have the choice to either thrash it (and possibly damage my vehicle in the process) or go slower. if i'm in a situation where i'm getting shot at, i'd take the former, thank you.

Me too, but I don't think the ArmA engine is up to the challenge. In real life, driving a normal car over a rough paddock at speed would lead to a lot of "bottoming out" and other bad noises before any damage or injuries occurred. In ArmA, with no vehicle rolling noise and simple damage simulation, the only feedback the player would have to judge a safe speed by would be the magnitude of the cars bouncing. Then what? An instant flat tyre? People would be complaining every time it happened.

Other issues are digital throttle (keyboard), no roll-overs etc...

[Journeyman 0]

I guess that ArmA just isn't an off road simulator and BIS is just trying to over simplify the fact that you wouldn't normally be able to drive as fast in most off road environments as you would on it! Let's face it ArmA doesn't exactly handle the off road physics very well does it! No wheel spins, sliding and all those other things that you might find in an off road simulator like the one that I talked about HERE!  

[jasono 0]

At least OFP2 will be definitly getting this spot on, since it is using a rally game engine

But I tottally agree that the game exadurates the "your off-road so you must go slower" factor. Driving from full speed into the grass is like hitting the break.

I don't see this as being a difficult thing to change to be honest, as it's an overdone factor on all vehicles pretty much. The only vehicle I have seen work OK'ish is the Land Rover.

[frederf 0]

The off-road handling is trying to simulate all the bumps, ruts, rocks, and soft-dirt that are in a field without having the engine having to model every ant hill individually.

To be honest off-road driving in ArmA is too fast and smooth compared to what it should be.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

I think that the off-road driving slow-down is to simulate how a vehicle driving over somewhat more rough terrain that is normally seen. Just to give you an idea, I don't know how it is in ArmA but in OFP if you put the terrain detail to the highest setting, anything off-road gets very much "crumpled", therefore so much slow-down would be perfectly normal. The problem is, not every off-road terrain is THAT "crumpled"...

[EDcase 87]

I would vote to make the offroad vehicles faster cross country but more bouncy and so harder to contol with an increased chance to roll over.  The ground textures that depict rocks on the mountains should result in more slowdown than the grassy plains. (in fact these rocky areas are a bit more bouncy to drive over)

On a side note: A feature that would help the realism alot would be suspension compression when turning.  I don't know how hard this would be to implement considering ARMA already uses suspension effects on vehicles but not while turning.

[Stugwi 0]

Big slow down off road is a good thing. It means using the roads and planning your journey instead of of ur trip being "as the crow flys".

[leckig 0]

Big slow down off road is a good thing. It means using the roads and planning your journey instead of of ur trip being "as the crow flys".

"Off road" is what some military vehicles are designed for. And we are talking about a simulation here. Therefore your point is not valid.

If Abrams can go 40MPH off road and 10% elevation, this should be simulated in the game to make it realistic. It should not go 15MPH to force the player use roads (all numbers here are speculations only).

[Grodin 0]

Big slow down off road is a good thing. It means using the roads and planning your journey instead of of ur trip being "as the crow flys".

"Off road" is what some military vehicles are designed for. And we are talking about a simulation here. Therefore your point is not valid.

If Abrams can go 40MPH off road and 10% elevation, this should be simulated in the game to make it realistic. It should not go 15MPH to force the player use roads (all numbers here are speculations only).

Its military simulation, not car racing simulation.

I think people should play richard burns rally or GTR2 if they want realistic car handling or flightsims F4 or IL2 or something if they want realistic flight models.

Getting the issues with real bugs and glitches that prevent some people from playing at all should be fixed, then the issues we have with the stuff this game was made for : infantry.

Just my 2cents.

[King-Six 0]

i cannot believe some of you out there actually like the way it slows to a crawl.  yeah it might be simulating all the bumps and ruts but still...if you want it to slow down, fine.  but does it have to be THAT slow?

how about letting the driver choose how fast he should drive based on his vehicle, his skill level, and the combat situation.

let us have full power, but make it so if you take a big jump, or if you cut a corner and smack into a tree, that you get serious injury or even die in the wreck.

i think that would be pretty cool if they could pull it off.

[BraTTy 0]

I can add to this....

First off, its definately NOT a bug. You can adjust how well a vehicle goes offroad with settings in the config.I know because I was making a dirtbike for OFP.You can adjust so that it goes the same off-road as on.

And as a real life comparison...A dirtbike actually accelerates quicker and handles better on anything but pavement or ice

(a real dirtbike with knobbies = off-road use only)

[hailstorm 4]

Its military simulation, not car racing simulation.

I think people should play richard burns rally or GTR2 if they want realistic car handling or flightsims F4 or IL2 or something if they want realistic flight models.

alright mate, you start off saying that its' a 'military simulation' then go off and say we should go off and play some other game if we don't wanna fight on foot?

i'd agree with you, except for one thing: BI advertised this game from the start as a 'ultimate combat simulator' and with it's 'attention to realism'. it never said it was an 'infantry simulator'. so why does things such as ArmA's off-road driving and flight models are so detatched from reality as to warrant numerous threads about the subject? i'm not asking for models that are on par with flight simulator or colin mcrae, i'm asking for planes that somewhat fly like real fixed-wing aircraft, and for trail-bikes and other off-road vehicles to act like they aren't driving through knee-deep water.

i don't agree with people saying that "it's simulating ground that can't be rendered" because it's pretty obvious that most of the terrain of sahrani (bar the desert, possibly) isn't of the type to signifigantly hinder vehicles, at least not as much as it does currently. simply put, rolling, grassy hills do not slash in half the max speed of off-road vehicles.

i cannot believe some of you out there actually like the way it slows to a crawl.  yeah it might be simulating all the bumps and ruts but still...if you want it to slow down, fine.  but does it have to be THAT slow?

how about letting the driver choose how fast he should drive based on his vehicle, his skill level, and the combat situation.

exactly how i feel, mate.

[baddo 0]

you think that's bad, try taking the TT650 off-road. the dirtbike only manages 55 kmh on grass! anyone with a real trailbike can tell you that you can go much faster than 55 in real life. even a 125cc tbike is able to crack 100kmh on open terrain.

don't forget, in times of war, you're not going to be concerned that your vehicle ride is 'uncomfortable' you're going to be more concerned that you're *still* within firing range!

Well I heard from a reliable source, a Motorcycle Scout in the Finnish Defence Forces driving a 640 cm(3) KTM, that he could get up to 150 km/h in a sand field in a Finnish military training area. It is off-road driving certainly, and not flat enough to call it flat. I've been to the same area myself too and from what I can tell, that kind of speed there is crazy! But possible though, for some crazy people.

Yes that what I said too, if you get into a battle and it is either you being shot to pieces or your vehicle getting damaged, then I'll certainly choose to damage the vehicle. If that ever happens I just hope no one is on the back of the truck as there it's likely people will get injuries if the driver drives like 'hanging on to the steering wheel, pedal pressed to the metal and not being able to sit on the driver's seat'. At least the driver has the steering wheel to hold onto.

We in the FDF specifically practiced driving as fast as possible in off-road conditions. Of course that's not what we normally did, as it is way too wearysome for both the machines and the men. Normal speed in rough terrain with obstacles like rocks, holes and ditches etc. is slow, a man on foot should easily be able to keep up with a truck. On off-road but flat-enough and hard-enough terrain it is possible to maintain quite a high speed though.

ArmA's terrain just isn't simulated roughly enough to justify the major slowdown. Solution could very well be to reduce the rate of speed reduction when driving from tarmac to grass. So that if you only drive a little bit off-road, the speed wouldn't practically drop noticeably. That's what happens in real life too, most roads have level and hard terrain right next to the tarmac so it won't cause a slowdown. Only if you go further away from the road, the speed would drop more. This could be based on a time limit, for how long have you been off-road.