AI has rayvision?

[Taurus 20]

I can not recall me writing anything about me hating/disliking this game.

I think some things _must_ improve tho'

What I'm talking about in my first post is:

Me being the AI soldier:

Looking towards the ally between two buildings

http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=armaaisoldieruberview1pg1.jpg

Me looking ("command viewing") the same view with NVGoggles on...

http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=armaaisoldieruberview3hj3.jpg

I can barely see myself, but even tho if I go prone, or put a shrubbery in my helmet will I avoid being detected and one shotted by the named AI, which is a private with 0 skill...

Viewing the AI soldier from that position turned out to be a problem with the NVGoggles as the sky "blinds" me and the NVGoggles darkens my view.

This is a bug me thinks.

Some times of the night is

"doStop" even if you have NVGoggles.

If you are viewing west pre ~20-22:00 hrs and east ~04-06:00

Played a MPmission done by a german bloke the other day.

I really nice mission, the creator had some nice thinking about the mission place on the map.

You and your team had to go through a narrow pass with a MG nest to your final destination to blow up a radio mast.

But...

Time was 04:40 and I couldn't watch where I was going with my NVGoggles.

Turning the NVGoggles off I couldn't see my weapon in my hand.

And, suddenly I was reminded...

BOOM RATTA TA TA

Killed by a AI soldier with his AK74 and no NVGoggles..

He stod behind a tent, me beeing behind 3-4 more spruces(Genus Picea)

I made sure I didn't make a "silhouette" either, the background was as dark as I was.

[edit]

And now when I come to think about it.

AI units calling

Soldier at 11, 100 meter

WHERE??

Command viewing, seeing a tip of a helmet behind a bush and a wall.

Can not see from "ground level" neither should my fellow AI unit.

But he has a hidden zeppelin hovering about 30 meters above ground.

Soldier at 9, 50 meter

OMG where??, and most imporantly KILL it! you are a AI unit too!

I've place you on engage at will so kil... BANG

"Experience is a though ...."

[Second 0]

Enemy had no NVG... That means that enemy had natrual night vision, while you lost yours by using NVGs

You happened to shoot, by any change? Used auto fire or bursts? If yes then it's no wonder that you got killed.

[Shadey 0]

I think what most people are getting at is they want to play with AI that uses smart tactics but doesn't have super aim at the same time. Also for an AI that isn't shy of using suppresive fire.

[4 IN 1 0]

hum, you want them to be really really human like and smart to carry out tactical movement, then you say that they are too smart that they know where to aim.....hummmmmm

[Second 0]

Super aim can be corrected by changing difficulty (i play at cadet difficulty... Lost my manhood there). I don't like sniper shooter AI, and in ArmA i don't have to play against sniper shooter.

There are few fundamental rules when fighting against AI. AI isn't and can't be like human, but what i know of ArmA's AI: It does damn good job. Only thing is that ability to "see" thru bushes and stuff, when player is too loud or sticks in one place. This is expacely ugly thing when fighting in dense forest.

Here's couple of things, which applies to OFP's forest fights as well:

1. use single and accurate shots (enemy wont detect you so easily)

2. Each time you shoot, move to next cover (if enemy detects you, you aren't in same spot anymore)

3. But move with stealth (enemy won't notice you moving)

[4 IN 1 0]

Enemy had no NVG... That means that enemy had natrual night vision, while you lost yours by using NVGs

You happened to shoot, by any change? Used auto fire or bursts? If yes then it's no wonder that you got killed.

i wouldnt be so sure to that, night with no moon is a really PIA for me as i couldnt see a thing without NVGs, yet AI have a slightly more vision then i do

this is more about lighting/HDR problem to me

[Shadey 0]

Quote[/b] ]Super aim can be corrected by changing difficulty

The problem is that the AI then does the "oh noes. we're being shot at. time to stand up and run around a bit before shooting at the enemy." I would prefer if AI had 2 sliders. One for accuracy and another for intelligence. 3 sliders would be better: accuracy, intelligence, & bravery.

[neildood 0]

There are three types of people populating here:

BF2 fans, OFP fans, and GOOD SENSE PEOPLE, that for God blessing is the majority.

For blinded OFPs fans, BF2 players are the hell, they have no voice, no reason. They are retarded kids with 3 years, and use to eat ice-creams with their ears!

I never played BF2, I have no interest in it, I'm a big, enourmous fan of OFP, but I fit in that third group, the GOOD SENSE people.

And I'm very upset with people that simply think that who has complains is a moan, and EVERY SINGLE FORUM, of every single game, on every place around the world, always will have people who judge itself as owner of the all reasons, owner of the forum voices, and in the most of the cases, people like that are always in the foruns to protect the game against everything, against who complain, against who has critics, agains the aliens!!!

They are the deffenders of the game, cause the game is perfect and no one who criticize the game has reason, never!!!

They act like guard dogs, believing that they are giving a BIG support to the game, to the devs, and to the community.

BUT THEY ARE NOT!

Comon, this game has so many bugs and so many lacks that the devs not even are able to follow them a single forum.: they need a track bug system to organize so much complains.

They are fixing and patching everything since the release, and they have still too much work to do, and one of the important things is this super natural skill from the AIs.

For me no matter that I have options or how to edit a file, cause I want to play against defaults AIs that fight in a life-like level.

I don't want any cheat or arrangement, cause if I start changing the game definitions, soon I will be playing other game, but not ArmA!!!

The game can't be perfect, cause it is impossible, but must intend to perfection.

If there is so much complain, it is not weep, it is a fact, and that must to be said, cause the devs must to listen to the community, and work on those things that can kill the game!

So, the problem exists, and it is a hudge problem that many times pissed the people off, and please OFP fans, let us complain.

Do you love OFP? I do love too!

My deep apologies, i did read it wrong i should be banned .

Had a rough night sorry again...

[Second 0]

Quote[/b] ]Super aim can be corrected by changing difficulty

The problem is that the AI then does the "oh noes. we're being shot at. time to stand up and run around a bit before shooting at the enemy." I would prefer if AI had 2 sliders. One for accuracy and another for intelligence.

That can be changed too, as like walker said earlier. They can be changed.

Here's my settings at regular difficulty:

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">

skillFriendly=0.902859;

skillEnemy=0.902859;

precisionFriendly=0.454698;

precisionEnemy=0.454698;

Now they shoot unaccurately, but react fast. I favor this.

Here another line:

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE"> skillFriendly=0.454698;

skillEnemy=0.454698;

precisionFriendly=0.902859;

precisionEnemy=0.902859;

Now they react slow, but shoot accurately. I hate this.

Lousy thing is that every time i go to difficulty menu, settings are overwriten by values in slider

[4 IN 1 0]

is the "read only" trick used on the ArmA.cfg work?

[Second 0]

Seems to work that way... Never crossed my mind (you can tell who is genius and who is not)

EDIT: Ofcourse after this every change have to be done by that file. Also changing difficulty level from regular to veteran.

EDITII: But ofcourse if slider values are left to be custom, and they are not moved than values stays as they are set... Brains are full of slime -> Brains are not functioning

[Silvio Camolesi 0]

There are three types of people populating here:

BF2 fans, OFP fans, and GOOD SENSE PEOPLE, that for God blessing is the majority.

For blinded OFPs fans, BF2 players are the hell, they have no voice, no reason. They are retarded kids with 3 years, and use to eat ice-creams with their ears!

I never played BF2, I have no interest in it, I'm a big, enourmous fan of OFP, but I fit in that third group, the GOOD SENSE people.

And I'm very upset with people that simply think that who has complains is a moan, and EVERY SINGLE FORUM, of every single game, on every place around the world, always will have people who judge itself as owner of the all reasons, owner of the forum voices, and in the most of the cases, people like that are always in the foruns to protect the game against everything, against who complain, against who has critics, agains the aliens!!!

They are the deffenders of the game, cause the game is perfect and no one who criticize the game has reason, never!!!

They act like guard dogs, believing that they are giving a BIG support to the game, to the devs, and to the community.

BUT THEY ARE NOT!

Comon, this game has so many bugs and so many lacks that the devs not even are able to follow them a single forum.: they need a track bug system to organize so much complains.

They are fixing and patching everything since the release, and they have still too much work to do, and one of the important things is this super natural skill from the AIs.

For me no matter that I have options or how to edit a file, cause I want to play against defaults AIs that fight in a life-like level.

I don't want any cheat or arrangement, cause if I start changing the game definitions, soon I will be playing other game, but not ArmA!!!

The game can't be perfect, cause it is impossible, but must intend to perfection.

If there is so much complain, it is not weep, it is a fact, and that must to be said, cause the devs must to listen to the community, and work on those things that can kill the game!

So, the problem exists, and it is a hudge problem that many times pissed the people off, and please OFP fans, let us complain.

Do you love OFP? I do love too!

Hey stuff you Silvio Camolesi, im an ex BF2 player and have never complained and compared the games at all.

You cant knock BF2 fans for playing this game (thats right game), i enjoy my FPS and Armed Assault is my favorite at the moment.

Are you saying that this Armed Assault community are not willing to let BF2 players or other FPS be welcomed, instead you have to slag them off. I personally dont bring my BF2 skills over to this game (you cant) its a team playing army sim which works well.

How do you know BF2 players "are the hell" as you say you never played it? and whats with saying about retarded kids? My brother has learning difficulties and to use that comment is an insult, you are the lowest of the low.

You Sir have no sense and should be banned for posting comments like that

P.S The game isnt perfect but still enjoyable and patches to come will fix issues and im behind BIS and this community to test and report bugs, my money was well spent

You understood everything WRONG!

I'm deffending people who play BF2 or any other game.

I think anyone can opine, and who play this or that game does not matter. The unique thing that matters is the GOOD SENSE

English is not my language, I think it is not you too, so try to read again what I wrote, and try to understand what I tried to say.

[Canaria 0]

There are three types of people populating here:

BF2 fans, OFP fans, and GOOD SENSE PEOPLE, that for God blessing is the majority.

For blinded OFPs fans, BF2 players are the hell, they have no voice, no reason. They are retarded kids with 3 years, and use to eat ice-creams with their ears!

I never played BF2, I have no interest in it, I'm a big, enourmous fan of OFP, but I fit in that third group, the GOOD SENSE people.

And I'm very upset with people that simply think that who has complains is a moan, and EVERY SINGLE FORUM, of every single game, on every place around the world, always will have people who judge itself as owner of the all reasons, owner of the forum voices, and in the most of the cases, people like that are always in the foruns to protect the game against everything, against who complain, against who has critics, agains the aliens!!!

They are the deffenders of the game, cause the game is perfect and no one who criticize the game has reason, never!!!

They act like guard dogs, believing that they are giving a BIG support to the game, to the devs, and to the community.

BUT THEY ARE NOT!

Comon, this game has so many bugs and so many lacks that the devs not even are able to follow them a single forum.: they need a track bug system to organize so much complains.

They are fixing and patching everything since the release, and they have still too much work to do, and one of the important things is this super natural skill from the AIs.

For me no matter that I have options or how to edit a file, cause I want to play against defaults AIs that fight in a life-like level.

I don't want any cheat or arrangement, cause if I start changing the game definitions, soon I will be playing other game, but not ArmA!!!

The game can't be perfect, cause it is impossible, but must intend to perfection.

If there is so much complain, it is not weep, it is a fact, and that must to be said, cause the devs must to listen to the community, and work on those things that can kill the game!

So, the problem exists, and it is a hudge problem that many times pissed the people off, and please OFP fans, let us complain.

Do you love OFP? I do love too!

Hey stuff you Silvio Camolesi, im an ex BF2 player and have never complained and compared the games at all.

You cant knock BF2 fans for playing this game (thats right game), i enjoy my FPS and Armed Assault is my favorite at the moment.

Are you saying that this Armed Assault community are not willing to let BF2 players or other FPS be welcomed, instead you have to slag them off. I personally dont bring my BF2 skills over to this game (you cant) its a team playing army sim which works well.

How do you know BF2 players "are the hell" as you say you never played it? and whats with saying about retarded kids? My brother has learning difficulties and to use that comment is an insult, you are the lowest of the low.

You Sir have no sense and should be banned for posting comments like that

P.S The game isnt perfect but still enjoyable and patches to come will fix issues and im behind BIS and this community to test and report bugs, my money was well spent

Your barking up the wrong tree m8te. I suggest you read what the man wrote and why he wrote it before you start twisting his balls for something he didn't say.

[Ruckus 0]

I just wish they'd implement both the AI Skill adjustment as well as the AI Precision adjustment so we could Adjust the

AI to our individual preferences.

If you adjust the AI Skill now, it does help a little with their

shooting ability, however it dumbs them down as well. Having both knobs to adjust to our liking should solve this problem that constantly comes up.

[HamishUK 0]

OK you guys have lost me here!

1:Is it better to go into the .cfg and set the precision and skill levels?

2:Why is this better than using the custom slider?

3: Does the AI skill slider in the mission Editor for each soldier not work then?

Thanks!

[NeMeSiS 11]

OK you guys have lost me here!

1:Is it better to go into the .cfg and set the precision and skill levels?

2:Why is this better than using the custom slider?

3: Does the AI skill slider in the mission Editor for each soldier not work then?

Thanks!  

2. You can set not only their skill, but also their accuracy, their skill isnt a problem while their accuracy is, so its better to just change their accuracy and leave their skill as it is.

[HamishUK 0]

OK you guys have lost me here!

1:Is it better to go into the .cfg and set the precision and skill levels?

2:Why is this better than using the custom slider?

3: Does the AI skill slider in the mission Editor for each soldier not work then?

Thanks!  

2. You can set not only their skill, but also their accuracy, their skill isnt a problem while their accuracy is, so its better to just change their accuracy and leave their skill as it is.

Thank you Sir!

[b1sh0p 0]

I only read the original post, so this has probably already been said, but 200m is not an unreasonable distance for iron sights. 300 and 400 are even doable.

The bush thing, yes, that's annoying. But if you are within say 500m of any enemy infantryman, AI or player alike, magnified optics or iron sights alike, you're in the danger zone, just like in real life. 200m is definately not an impossible shot.

[Ruckus 0]

OK you guys have lost me here!

1:Is it better to go into the .cfg and set the precision and skill levels?

2:Why is this better than using the custom slider?

3: Does the AI skill slider in the mission Editor for each soldier not work then?

Thanks!  

2. You can set not only their skill, but also their accuracy, their skill isnt a problem while their accuracy is, so its better to just change their accuracy and leave their skill as it is.

I got this confused with setUnitAbility in the scripting i guess. I didn't know you could adjust their accuracy. I was under the impression that it didn't work.  Thanks setUnitAbility

[dwringer 45]

I enjoy playing BF2, and I even got a big kick out of BF2142 for a while after it came out (say what you will, those aerial transports are hella fun to fly), so my opinion is apparently inferior, but . . .

I generally have few qualms about AI in ArmA - it's not real life, but it's sure doing a lot more than the AI in most other games [arguably, all other games]. That said, I will point out that occasionally, the AI CAN see through foliage that no human would ever have a chance of. And I'm not referring to AI units watching you duck down for concealment, then shooting you through the bush. I set up some OPFOR soldiers around a hotel, with a bunch of trees in the back, and gave myself a 4 man team to attack over the hills which came about 75 meters away from the courtyard behind the hotel. My AI squad and I came over the nearest hilltop towards the hotel, but I couldn't engage the enemy because there were a lot of trees obstructing our view. I went prone and tried to pick off anybody who got flushed out by my AI team that I left to continue the direct assault. The next thing I new, an AI unit that I had NEVER seen shot me through some tree branches which SHOULD have concealed his view of the entire hillside (he was located just behind the thickest part of the foliage). I was dead in 2 shots; didn't even have time to react. When the death-cam flew in to highlight my killer, it was obvious that there was NO way he could've seen me if he were a real person. So the anecdote above about the AI shooting someone through some bushes and 2 trees while lying in tall grass doesn't surprise me at all. I agree, most of the time, there IS a rational explanation for why the AI is shooting at you, but this is the one [and only] exception that I've ever encountered.

[ShrubMiK 0]

Realistically, it's going to be very hard to implement full line-of-sight calculations for all AI units to all other units in the game, taking account of every little polygon of every little tree.

I suspect there's a statistical model in play, sometimes you get unlucky with the dice roll and you get spotted.

It's not totally unreasonable though. It's a very thick set of foliage that you can't see through at all, especially if all the branches are moving around at all in even a light breeze, you'll catch glimpses through to the other side occasionally.

Also note that it's easier to see through foliage when you are near to it...just because you can't see somebody behind a bush 200m away doesn't mean he can't see you. In the same way that if I peer through a letter box I can easily see the person on the other side of the street but he quite likely won't notice me.

A big tree halfway in between you and the enemy should affect both of you in the same way, and then it is true that if you can't see him he can't see you.

[max power 21]

It's not their vision that's a problem. It's that they can detect your exact location by sound. They can know exactly where you are after you shoot at them depending on what weapon and bullets you are using. Using a supressed weapon with subsonic ammunition severely limits that ability.

[Shadey 0]

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">

skillFriendly=0.902859;

skillEnemy=0.902859;

precisionFriendly=0.454698;

precisionEnemy=0.454698;

Thanks Second. I'll try this tonight.

[Baff1 0]

I only read the original post, so this has probably already been said, but 200m is not an unreasonable distance for iron sights.   300 and 400 are even doable.  

I think a 30cm grouping is reasonable with an AK 74 at 300 metres.

If you aim centre of mass, you should hit something.

[Taurus 20]

I only read the original post, so this has probably already been said, but 200m is not an unreasonable distance for iron sights. 300 and 400 are even doable.

The bush thing, yes, that's annoying. But if you are within say 500m of any enemy infantryman, AI or player alike, magnified optics or iron sights alike, you're in the danger zone, just like in real life. 200m is definately not an impossible shot.

A full size target 1/1 is covered by the front sight* at 300 meters.

A full size target at 200 meters, its doable.

But try even see the 1/4 target from 200 meters..

I'll try editing the file you guys mentioned.

Wonder which "skill file" will rule over the other in a MP game.

I guess it should be the server one.

Also, again, I like this game, I have a long list of things that made me go "OMG! just look at this!?"

But this thing about AI seeing things they aren't supposed to kind of is a nail in my eye.

[edit]

ShrubMiK

Yep, I see that too.

But somewhere I think "this is a game"

And I have little left of my patience to spend on laying dead with my cracked bleeding head on the ground by one 5,56 round from a AK74.

So BIS could just do "notAIaimSoWellPlayerBeHappyxD=true"

I'm not saying that I want this game to be a arcade game either.

But, there's flaws, like in Rogue Spear.

Where the AI could stand easy when their fellow standing next to them get shot.

But at the same time can headshot you with his sidearm from 200 meters.

*Iron sight HKG3