m107 recoil crazy unrealistic in game

[opteryx 1562]

It really becomes hilarious when you see a comparison.

CLICK ME

CLICK ME

[frederf 0]

Now obviously the previous .gif's show how wrong the recoil is in the game, but look at the time between aimed shots.

This recoil is unrealistic but the result is a rather realistic re-aiming time. Would you agree? If we had realistic recoil we'd probably get off too many aimed shots in a minute compares to real life.

[DVD 0]

I don't think so, even a player needs time to aim.

[raidzor 0]

Yup .. but hey almost every weapon in ArmA got to much recoil.

M4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pKehYJGCFs

AK74

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxqgOiq6Fz0

... but maybe all the movies are wrong, they maybe fire airsoft weapons.

That AK-47 video does not use the accurate caliber for the Kalashnikov anyway...instead of 5.54 it should be 7.62, still the AK in game has exagerated recoil.

[killaalf 0]

That AK-47 video does not use the accurate caliber for the Kalashnikov anyway...instead of 5.54 it should be 7.62, still the AK in game has exagerated recoil.

Umm, AK47 != AK74

[DVD 0]

@raidzor

(old) AK47 / AKM /RPK47......... used 7.62x39mm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47

(newer) AK74 / AK74M / RPK74 used 5.45x39mm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-74

[bravo 6 0]

is that so hard to understand that recoils in general need to be chnaged and fixed?!

[Rommel 2]

Just lower the recoils a tiny bit, not to much, if it was out of ten and its 10/10 now? Put it to 8 or 7.

[Heavy Metal 0]

Quote[/b] ]n game US weapons have better accuracy and longer AI distance of fire

real effective fire range for M4 is about 350 meters in game 400

real effective fire range of AK74 is 500 m, but in game 400

Uhh...no.

The 74 is a decided improvement over the 7.62 AKM but it will not outrange the M-4 due to the M-4's greater inherent accuracy, more accurate ammo and better sights. I have fired both weapons at over 500M in real life and the 74's sights are a real limitation over the M-4's peep sights.

A 74 with good ammo is a 2-3 moa weapon. the M-4 with good ammo is a 1-2 moa weapon. Unless you are using a magnifying optic, the notch sights will not allow you to approach this on the 74.

If someone would make a camera that would mount to a 1913 milstd rail, I could get you some definitive muzzle climb values for given ranges and given shooting positions with different weapons. I could co-witness the camera with a laser and you could measure defelction.

An important point to be made is you will have far less muzzle rise firing from a solid prone position than firing from a standing position.

[Second 0]

I don't think so, even a player needs time to aim.

In ArmA player doesn't need to fix his "broken" (kneeling or standing) bodyposition. Look at that first yuuuupeeetoubee video and you see that soldier needed to place his elbow again to right spot (what else not visible in camera?). If only frontal foot is in wrong angle, it raises weapon sway. There are about 10 minor things that needs to be correct in bodyposition when shooting from kneeling or standing and trying to reach maximal possible stability. With standart rifle, those things stay after each shot in correct angles/positions. But how about big guns like that?

Recoil is too big, but it represents things that are not present, or even possible, in ArmA. Maybe it's good to fine tune it, but not to make it that mild as in that yuuuupeeetuuubee video.

[-CS-SOBR-1st-I-R- 0]

Quote[/b] ]n game US weapons have better accuracy and longer AI distance of fire

real effective fire range for M4 is about 350 meters in game 400

real effective fire range of AK74 is 500 m, but in game 400

Uhh...no.

The 74 is a decided improvement over the 7.62 AKM but it will not outrange the M-4 due to the M-4's greater inherent accuracy, more accurate ammo and better sights.

Bullshit !

you seem to forget that the AK74 is a rifle and the M4 only a carbine. Let alone the barrel length, whic is longer at the AK74 provides it with a longer shot distance.

And you cant talk about M4 being more accurate to AK74 as this is dependent on the type of ammo used, bullet weight. Russian bullets are anyway considered better, so the 5.45x39 compared to 5.56x45.

As for the optics, there are also AK74s with optics and there are also M4s with ironsights, so dont put it down that way that all M4s are scoped and all AK74s are old ironsight'ed cheap commie guns with no range and penetration.

[DVD 0]

I don't think so, even a player needs time to aim.

In ArmA player doesn't need to fix his "broken" (kneeling or standing) bodyposition. Look at that first yuuuupeeetoubee video and you see that soldier needed to place his elbow again to right spot (what else not visible in camera?). If only frontal foot is in wrong angle, it raises weapon sway. There are about 10 minor things that needs to be correct in bodyposition when shooting from kneeling or standing and trying to reach maximal possible stability. With standart rifle, those things stay after each shot in correct angles/positions. But how about big guns like that?

Recoil is too big, but it represents things that are not present, or even possible, in ArmA. Maybe it's good to fine tune it, but not to make it that mild as in that yuuuupeeetuuubee video.

I dont like to live with unrealistic recoils, just because the simulation isn't perfect.

Second, you ain't wrong.

But the truth is also, that there will be always a lag of simulation.

- Why do i reload all the time with the same speed?

- Why dont i run out of blood if i am wounded?

- Why is there no need drink and eat .. or to sleep, after hour of fighting?

- Why dont my weapons stops working from time to time.. why ... and so on, and on ..

Ridiculously, crazy recoils are a bad compromise, to gain realism.

[MamiyaOtaru 1]

M4 recoil seems fine in game. (Of course, when we say recoil we mean muzzle climb, so I'll use that).

The small amount of muzzle climb seen in those videos is greatly amplified downrange. ArmA gets this close enough (it isn't orders of magnitude off).

The Barrett's muzzle climb is obviously ridiculous though ;)

[funnyguy1 0]

afaik there's no point in using m107 in arma, because it's useless anyway, so the recoil issue isn't a big thing to me.

[Heavy Metal 0]

SOBR[1st-I-R] @ May 05 2007,10:30)]

Quote[/b] ]n game US weapons have better accuracy and longer AI distance of fire

real effective fire range for M4 is about 350 meters in game 400

real effective fire range of AK74 is 500 m, but in game 400

Uhh...no.

The 74 is a decided improvement over the 7.62 AKM but it will not outrange the M-4 due to the M-4's greater inherent accuracy, more accurate ammo and better sights.

Bullshit !

you seem to forget that the AK74 is a rifle and the M4 only a carbine. Let alone the barrel length, whic is longer at the AK74 provides it with a longer shot distance.

Dude, you are the one full of crap. Don't call bullshit on me. I have had contact with both weapons in the US Army and own civilian legal copies in real life. I have fired both weapons extensively. The difference in barrel length is 1.5 inches, this is trivial. The 5.56 is a higher pressure cartridge with 15% more case capacity than the Russian 5.45. The 5.45 is the lowest power cartridge in service with any major power.

The AK-74 is a mediocre optics platform due to the flex of the sheetmetal reciever. I have a PO 3.5x21 Optic and a semi-auto only AK-74. I also have a semi only M-4 clone although the barrel is 16 inches due to legal minimum length requirments. It requires an ATF form 4 to own anything with a barrel length less than 16 inches. These are a hassle and I have only gone thru the trouble of getting one and it was for my AKS-74U.

This extra inch and a half only gives me 50 FPS over a 14.5 barrel though so it is virtually insiginificant ballistically .

By my definition, the AK-74 is a carbine too. One mans rifle is another mans carbine and vice versa.

The 1913 Rail on the flattop M-4 reciever are a far more rigid mount. The siderail on the 74 has too much flex with any kind of heavy magnified optic.

The M-4 is an inherently more accurate platform. This is not seriously debated by anyone in the know. There is simply too much twist and flex in the sheetmetal reciever of the AK-74. Also, the gas piston upsets the barrel harmonics to a degree.

Quote[/b] ]Russian bullets are anyway considered better, so the 5.45x39 compared to 5.56x45. And you cant talk about M4 being more accurate to AK74 as this is dependent on the type of ammo used, bullet weight.

Sure I can talk about it, it is as proven as the fact the sun rises in the east. American ammo is simply more accurate, more consistent and better made than the steel cased, steel jacketed, berdan primed Russian 7N6. Russian ammo goes bang and is cheap to mass produce. That is why they use steel instead of brass and copper, not for accuracy.

There are confirmed reports of ACOG equipped M-4's getting kills at over 600M in Afghanistan and Iraq with standard issue M855 ball.

Quote[/b] ]As for the optics, there are also AK74s with optics [red]yep, I own one[/red] and there are also M4s with ironsights, so dont put it down that way that all M4s are scoped and all AK74s are old ironsight'ed cheap commie guns with no range and penetration.

What does a scope have to do with penetration?

The iron peep sights on the M-4 simply blow away the post and notch sights on the Kalashnikov series. The ACOG is a much lighter optic for the same task as the PO 3.5x21. The PO 3.5x21 is a good optic but it weights a ton and tends to flex the 1mm sheetmetal reciever of the 74. There is an inherent accuracy penality before you even fire the first round.

My next 74 is going to have an Aimpoint M-3 mounted on an Ultimak Gas tube Replacement Rail. I do not care one bit for the side rail. You cannot get a cheekweld with it as it has to set the optic high enough to clear the top cover on the reciever. This is not a problem on the M-4 series.

[bootleg soldier 2]

I'm so glad it's illegal to own weapons in Britain.

[Heavy Metal 0]

Yeah, its a shame. Even the French get to own AR-15 and now the Irish can too.

[bootleg soldier 2]

Quote[/b] ]Yeah, its a shame.

WHY?

It's not a shame at all, less guns = less deaths no matter what anyone tells you (OMG i am so off topic shutting up now)

[Heavy Metal 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yeah, its a shame.

WHY?

It's not a shame at all, less guns = less deaths no matter what anyone tells you (OMG i am so off topic shutting up now)

Actually, no it does not. Your gun deaths have not gone down in spite of your gun bans.

Finland and Switzerland seem to be doing fine despite trusting their own citizens with a bit of freedom.

In Science we have a saying: Correlation does not equal casuation.

Perhaps you might find things are not as you have been led to believe if you read this:

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

[bootleg soldier 2]

I would love to have this debate but as i say it's soooo off topic that not here though, have just read the article you reffered me to and while i believe there is some things in it that might be regarded as informed opinion it still smacks of that, opinion.

Bottom line is i would never trust my next door neighbour with a gun (and the answer is not to get one myself, why would i need to i live in London and we have more trouble with knives, never even heard a gunshot). Also at one gun convention in the US one man was allowed to buy 83 handguns with no ID and paying in cash?

It is one of these arguments that people will NEVER EVER agree on so i'm just glad that being slightly more sensible over here it will never be the case and i can argue this safe in the knowlage that the 83 handgun man lives thousands of miles away and we have only had ONE school shooting of note quite a few years ago, since then tighter gun controls, no scenarios like the one you have had very recently.

Edit- I even saw one filthy rich gun lobbyist say that kids should be allowed to take guns to school for protection, says it all really. The irony is if i moved to the US i would want to own a gun because the what it's like

Anyway back to topic after seeing that video of the M107 the recoil when i tried it on ArmA seemed really funny (don't know how accurate he was though, i guess pretty good as he seemed pretty steady throughout)

[Heavy Metal 0]

Quote[/b] ]The irony is if i moved to the US i would want to own a gun because the what it's like

Now I know you have been fed major BS. It is not at all like than in 90% of the country. If you are not involved with the criminal element or hanging around high crime urban centers, your chances of getting shot are extremely small. I have never had to arm myself in fear. Some advice, don't believe most of what the BBC tells you about America. From what I have seen of the British press and knowing how it really is, it is like claiming a fun house mirror is giving an accurate reflection.

Quote[/b] ]Edit- I even saw one filthy rich gun lobbyist(how do you know he was rich?)say that kids should be allowed to take guns to school for protection, says it all really.

You sure you didn't see someone advocating allowing ADULT students with valid carry permits be allowed to carry on college campus? I think you are misrepresenting things her somewhat.

[bootleg soldier 2]

So why should anyone else need a gun?,

And i'm sorry that was a cheap shot i know it's not like that everywhere i apologise.

[Heavy Metal 0]

So why should anyone else need a gun?,

And i'm sorry that was a cheap shot i know it's not like that everywhere i apologise.

I don't need many things. I want them however. I don't need violent video games and high end PC's for example. I feel as long as I am a responsible custodian, I should not be held to the same standards of freedom as a violent felon. Enforce responsibility, don't eliminate freedom.

Violence is largely cultural. In the rural area I live in, every is armed to the teeth and no one feels threatened by it. Murder is rare.

Murder is the US is almost completely tied to the drug culture. There are some exceptions but by an large, this holds true for about 80% of it.

Anyway, enough off-topic.

PS, no apology necessary, we are all adults here (I hope)

[bootleg soldier 2]

If you knew Britain well you would know that selling guns in this country would be an utter disaster, as unfortunately we are are not as sensible as some northern Europeans and a Saturday night on the town would turn into a complete free for all, you think i over state this but to our shame it's true, if you had a drinking culture like ours you would never go out if you thought people were taking guns with them, it's sad but thats Britain            

Edit- yes it seems a strangely muted gun conversation but as i say each to their own and i wish you the best of luck with it all, just don't get broken into though else those guns may get free and into the wrong hands, mind you, you have gun stores so they don't need to i suppose

Best regards

Bootleg

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

So why should anyone else need a gun?,

And i'm sorry that was a cheap shot i know it's not like that everywhere i apologise.

ACtually, the right to bear arms was written into the Constitution should the need ever arise to overthrow the government and install a new one.