'Mechs, Anyone?

[KaiserPanda 0]

I've been an avid Battletech player for 10 years, and I'd love to see a mod for Armed Assault.  But, watching an aircraft video in ArmA, a Robotech mod would be sweeeeeet too.

[ZG]BUZZARD:

The situation wasn't nearly that simple, and they sure weren't "stolen".

FASA purchased the rights to use the designs from a Japanese company.  Everything is happy.  Harmony Gold in the USA produces a line of little plastic toy Destdroids.  Still happy.  Harmony Gold prototypes a plastic figure of a... Battletech Mad Cat/Timberwolf.  FASA calls them out.  HG backs down.  HG gets mad, sues FASA over their right to produce Battletech miniatures since HG owns the rights to produce all toys of those images in the US.  Note, neither FASA nor Harmony Gold created the original Macross series or the mecha images in question, they both liscenced their use.  Complicated legal mumbo jumbo.  FASA backs down, eventualy closes doors for various reasons.  FanPro rises.  www.classicbattletech.com

-and that's, the rest of the story.

Edit:

ColonelSandersLite:

Battletech was never meant to be a Robotech game. It started out as a general 'mech game in the US, with some shared designs and elements from the Robotech universe. It always had a distinct story and flavor semi-realistic combat.

[hokum15 2]

With all the Issues with IP, and such, if a mod is to be put together, i think we need to use original designs and story. It shouldn't matter if its similar or based from BT, just not a "names have been changed to protect the innocent"...

Btw i'm not a modler,but i'm a pretty reasonable graphic artist and photographer, so if you need textures...

[zerg63 1]

well..

arma uses skeletons/bones for animations now..

so it should be possible..

but we need the tools

If it's true.

My geara doga will come back

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

Sieg Zeon!

Well, actually I don't like the original Gundam (Universal Century) story line, I must say I prefer the Gundam SEED (Cosmic Era) story line...

[lkavadas 0]

[ZG]BUZZARD:

The situation wasn't nearly that simple, and they sure weren't "stolen".

FASA purchased the rights to use the designs from a Japanese company. Everything is happy. Harmony Gold in the USA produces a line of little plastic toy Destdroids. Still happy. Harmony Gold prototypes a plastic figure of a... Battletech Mad Cat/Timberwolf. FASA calls them out. HG backs down. HG gets mad, sues FASA over their right to produce Battletech miniatures since HG owns the rights to produce all toys of those images in the US. Note, neither FASA nor Harmony Gold created the original Macross series or the mecha images in question, they both liscenced their use. Complicated legal mumbo jumbo. FASA backs down, eventualy closes doors for various reasons. FanPro rises. www.classicbattletech.com

-and that's, the rest of the story.

This isn't entirely accurate. The mech(s) which spawned it were the original LAMs, Marauder, Battlemaster, Warhammer, Crusader, Phoenix Hawk, few others.

Mad Cat didn't come around until the '90s. FASA never went under. They were bought by the original creator's brother (Jordan Weismann) who owns and operates Wizkids. Jordan than creates Mechwarrior: Dark Age, a lame game of weird clicky things and ugly models and mechs powered by gas engines.

Big time backlash from that and the trashing of the entire established BattleTech lore and the fans went nuts. Mechwarrior "Dork Age" pretty much tanks so Classic BattleTech is reprised by FanPro.

Also, FASA could have easily kept and used unseen mechs that HG was pushing them around about but at the time they couldn't afford the legal battle.

Those "unseens" as they were later to be called have now resurfaced as completely redesigned mechs. A few of'em look pretty good too.

@Hokum15

No, don't need to be original. Wizkids is about as lax as it gets when it comes to using BattleTech. They don't even give two craps if you use the original unseen mechs in a mod or game. MekTek has been doing this for years with their blessing. They're actually really, really cool about this sort of thing.

There is BattleTech mod currently in production for Enemy Territory: Quake Wars. Link here.

[wolfbite 8]

Its all about the supernova and madcat \m/

[KaiserPanda 0]

Actualy, FASA did go under. They closed their doors, sold all their stuff. WizKids was founded by Weisman and bought the rights to Battletech, Shadowrun, and Crimson Skies. FASA Studios got all the video game production rights (terrible crime). FanPro opened shortly after FASA shut down, and liscences frok WK to produce CBT stuff. They were producing stuff before, not in reaction to, MWDA. -and MWDA (meh) is still in production.

Yes, those 'mechs you listed were the original "unseen" 'mechs. Yes, the Mad Cat didn't come aroud until the 90s. The legality issues didn't come up for a while.

Now that that crap is out of the way...

I highly doubt you'd have any legal trouble with a Robotech, Gundam, Front Mission, or Battletech mod. FASA Studio's only good point is their good attitude to not-for-profit stuff.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

Well, all legal matters set aside, I think it's pretty lame for anybody to copy other stuff, from an intellectual point of view, it rather demonstrates lazyness or lack of imagination. If Battletech had copied the Macross designs and somehow integrated the storylines, that would just have been awesome... But I guess it's an option for any fan-mods, since Battletech took the "liberty" of using designs already created for other series (Macross being the main example).

Also, for those that don't know it, there was a VF-1S released already for OFP, although IMHO it is not on par with the Wanzers etc in terms of quality. Still, you can check it out on OFP.info here.

[Blue_Flight 0]

As this is quite similar, has anybody thought of a transformers mod? They are roboters and so quite similar to a mech. The biggest challenge would be the transformation from a jet or a car in the roboter. Could this be possible to achieve?

[KaiserPanda 0]

What's lame about using 'mech designs that were popular at the time for a new game? They were Macross fans who wanted to run with the mecha thing in their own way. It's funny that you call that a lack of imagination, but want Battletech to copy off the Macross story.

Read some of the fiction, it's over 100 novels strong. Close Quarters is my favoirte book of all.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

Macross was so famous even Transformers "stole" the design making a model of the VF-1 (the autobot "Jetfire") which actually never made it into the series - though its popularity prompted the makers of the series to introduce something representative, although I do not think that "Skyfire" had any resemblance to the Macross model...

As for having something transforming: I really don't think that'll be possible, though who knows...

@ KaiserPanda: I only proposed an integration of the Macross storyline with BattleTech to justify the presence of the Macross models in BattleTech - without any integration, I sincerely can't consider the makers of BattleTech thought any other way than: "Hey, we ran out of creativity, but we need some more models - hmmm, look at this stuff, it's popular, so let's copy it..." It's a cheap shot to take advantage of someone else's success instead of trying a bit harder to achieve it by one's own means...

[lkavadas 0]

Gross, meshing Macross story with BattleTech story would be horrible. They're simply not compatible in the slightest.

It would be like mixing Blade Runner with Star Trek. They're just too different. BattleTech is a very pragmatically developed universe. It's dark and gritty. There are no aliens. Mixing Macross with BattleTech would destroy why everyone likes BattleTech.

Not to mention the use and scale of mechs is completely different in both IPs. No, Macross is dumb. It's the same lame anime Japan has been pumping out for decades. BattleTech was different. I wouldn't ever want to see the two merged. It would destroy everything I loved about BattleTech (plausible suspension of disbelief). If an Atlas started flying through the air on jet skates and kung fu'd a King Crab I'd throw up.

[ColonelSandersLite 0]

Part of the disbelief I'm seeing here is that battletech has it's own well developed story line.

Thing is that it wasn't always like that. In the very early incarnations of battletech, there was very little back story at all. Just a few short blurbs on the sucession wars and fall of comstar, and the resulting tech level loss. Then you had a few mechs, a large chunk of which where pulled straight out of macross, some others where pulled out of other animes, most of which I'm not too familiar with (someone linked a comparison above).

Amongst several geeks at that time, it was rumored that comstar was pretty much the RDF, and for one reason or another it fell. The few bits mentioned about comstar hinted that LAMs where one of their major weapons. There where a few other clues to that too, but it's been so long...

Another thing I see a lot in comments to battletech is that it's realistic, which frankly is a crock of shit. In 3025 and the rest of the early BT stuff, the main heavy long range weapon you're going to use is a large laser. Max range of 15 hexes at 30 meters a hex is 450 meters. Your other major source of long range fire power was the LRM rack (with all the accuracy of a BB gun in a hurricane), which had a max range of 21 hexes at 30 meters a hex is 630 meters.

When you consider that modern MBTs would be cheaper, faster moving, mass deployable, smaller targets than the walking houses with all the manouverability of a zepplin, and outrange them by nearly an order of magnitude: frankly a modern MBT will own any mech for breakfast 1 on 1.

Using strickly the BT vehicle creation rules, I can and have designed a simple 3050+ era armor company modeled off of modern MBTs that can and do pwn any lance of heavy mechs you care to throw at them. And to top it off, they're both cheaper in BPV and C-bills.

This doesn't even begin to consider the tactical or practical aspects of a fighting behemoth deployed in the field.

Battletech may be a lot of things, including a great friggin game (I personally consider 3050 to be the golden days, but crave a good 3025 match now and again and hate the post 3050 crapola), but it is not "realistic".

lkavadas's scale comment is wrong to a degree. In the older source books, you'll see them flip flop between whether these things where supposed to be 20-40 feet tall, or 20-40 meters. Frankly, the heights of the mechs wherent really worked out too well until the computer games started rolling out. Why? Well it wasn't really important or relevant to a 2d hex based war game.

As to lkavadas's flying jump-kicking Atlas comment, maybe he needs to look at the rules for "jump jets", "death from above", "ramming", "punches", "kicks" and mech melee weapons (including clubs, hatchets, and swords) again.

Also, yes, It was harmony gold, not hanabarbara as I mistakenly said above. I have trouble keeping names straight.

[Guest]

If an Atlas started flying through the air on jet skates and kung fu'd a King Crab I'd throw up.

Not exactly contributing to the topic here, but couldnt help but laugh... most unique

[KaiserPanda 0]

Nobody said it's "realistic", especialy me.  It's good fun with giant robots.  It does have realistic themes, stories, and tactics, but nothing doing in the physics of it. It's about the storytelling and the gameplay more than plotting out the future of real warefare.

Battlemech heights have always been clearly defined as between 8m and 16m.  Some of the art is totaly wrong, but that's artists for you.

An Atlas death-from-above wouldn't look so much like a jump kick as a slow motion train wreck.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

I'll have to reinstall MW3Gold again just to see if the Atlas even has enough jump jet capability to be able to pull off "stunts"... at least in MW3 one could still pack anything anywhere in the mech customization section... But I do shudder at the power output needed to have a 100-ton mech be propelled vertically into the air...

No, Mechs are definitely not realistic, but they're fun, and that's what this is all about!

@ KaiserPanda - the only Atlas I've seen in video action actually blew up...

[Barely-injured 0]

Oh man I always dreamed that somebody would make a battletech/mechwarrior game with a powerful mission editor like the OFP one, but sense greedy Microsoft cant pull something like that off maybe we can have it the other way around.

if you guys are adding mechs in game dont bother working up storylines and such just concentrate on making nice models and animations and mechs that you drive like a simulation ((i.e. in the same way it was in mechwarrior 2 and 3)). I suppose with an appropriate island and the ArmA editor we can create all kinds of neat battletech scenarios, battle of Luthien anyone ?

by the way with regards to number of crews question I remember in ofp somebody made a T-80 that is controlled by one AI and besides the mechs that were released for ofp could switch weapons in the same way an aircraft or helicopter would.

@[ZG]BUZZARD: dont bother installing MW3 it doesnt have an Atlas in it, and in MW2 and MW4 you could install a jumpjet on that beast if you so stubbornly desire but it would take too much firepower and armor from it and even death from above is hard to do with a 100 tons mech.

@ ColonelSandersLite: yes of course in the way you put it mechs are not very realistic and the original universe story line had to make up various technological "breakthroughs" for decades before the invention of the mech to explain how a 60 ton piece of metal could be fit witch chicken like limbs and a fusion reactor and still be able to master the battlefield. I suppose the term realistic here means that it is more realistic/believable then any of the other stuff with robots in them, not only in terms of the mechs themselves but also with regard to the storyline ; there are no green aliens here the only evil thing is the human nature.

[KaiserPanda 0]

MW3 Pirates Moon has an Atlas. MW3 was the best MW. Now I need to reinstall it, darn it!

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

MW3 Pirates Moon has an Atlas.   MW3 was the best MW.  Now I need to reinstall it, darn it!

Yeah, I know, I have MW3 Gold (which is MW3 + Pirate's Moon)... But strangely, Pirate's Moon has no Intro Video...  

[Daniel 0]

My favourite intro of all time has to be MechWarrior2 Mercs. Definately sets the atmosphere for the rest of the game. Although I've just seen the Mechwarrior 4 intro, there's some good tributes using clips from it on YouTube.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

In terms of mech games MW2 Mercs was my first contact and I liked it alot, and it came with a nice extensive library and, AFAIK, the largest number of mechs one could pilot in a Mechwarrior game so far... But honestly, after playing MW3 Gold, I just can't go back to MW2 Merc's crappy graphics...

[Barely-injured 0]

damn I have MW3 but no pirate moon, no atlas for me

yeah MW2 mercs was also my first love and I still go back to it from time to time.

I like the added systems in MW3 but nothing beats MW2 mercs for me.

[AWDrift 0]

I think Gundam would work really well. With all the series it has there are a ton of different settings and types of combat you can do.

You could make it gritty and realistic or completely silly. One of the main reasons I think Gundam is doing so well is you can watch one series and it will be a Drama with emotional scenes and gritty violence(0080) and then see another and it will just be completely over the top and silly(G gundam).

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we'll be able to have mechs performing martial arts moves, perhaps not any melee combat at all, so to have Gundam without said actions, is kinda detracting... I'd rather go for something that is known to be weapons-only... Like the Wanzers made for OFP...

[hokum15 2]

Just installed mw3 this last weekend, its still good, but its a but unstable on XP. mw3.org have some fixes and even the ability to run it at 1600x1200!

Anyway, i'd love to see "battlearma" or "atmatech" now all we need i a team of modelers and such...