School shooting "phenomenom"

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

I don't think he being a korean dude had anything to do with it.

[cozza 24]

A similer thing has happend in Australia. A student opened fired with a pistol on students at the Monash University in Melbourne in 2002.

Killed 2 students. And you know how they cuaght him, Not with guns, Not with any kind of weapon, but they tackled him to the ground and held him there till police came. So to all the gun-nuts out there, Sometimes Guns dont solve Gun Problems.

[Rustman 0]

A similer thing has happend in Australia. A student opened fired with a pistol on students at the Monash University in Melbourne in 2002.

Killed 2 students. And you know how they cuaght him, Not with guns, Not with any kind of weapon, but they tackled him to the ground and held him there till police came. So to all the gun-nuts out there, Sometimes Guns dont solve Gun Problems.

Personally, I'm for banning college students. If guns didn't have access to college students these unfortunate things wouldn't happen, darn it!

[AgentJonathan 0]

I'd say it's partly the "maniacs" parents fault, for not beatin' his ace when he did bad stuff.

Then again, it seems as if the VA "people" didn't even know of anything ever happening at all, until NBC Got his disgusting videos, and papers...

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]I'd say it's partly the "maniacs" parents fault, for not beatin' his ace when he did bad stuff.

Tell your parents to beat you up regularely if you do wrong things then.

It certainly will help not to turn you into a guy with psychological pressure and a tendency to go amok...

Just checked your profile, I understand now.

[kerosene 0]

Quote[/b] ]The most ridiculous must be the fellar who finds 5 examples how people can kill with other means than a gun.

You missed the point again, like you always do. The point was that the kid was doomed from the start. The old loon snapped and was going to assault to kill him. He did not kill the kid because he had a gun, he killed the kid because he was crazy. Taking the gun out of the story would only of changed the impliment with which the kid was killed.

Your property confiscation scheme would not have changed the end out come at all. It only would have changed the tool used to achieve the out come.

Quote[/b] ]is my right to be self-reliant and provide for my own protection more important than your right to feel comfortable? I say it is; you say it is not. Simple as that.

Coult not of said it better my self. Discussion closed.

Yeah, it but it was much easier for him to kill lots of people with guns than another implement is the point.

[AgentJonathan 0]

Quote[/b] ]I'd say it's partly the "maniacs" parents fault, for not beatin' his ace when he did bad stuff.

Tell your parents to beat you up regularely if you do wrong things then.

It certainly will help not to turn you into a guy with psychological pressure and a tendency to go amok...

Just checked your profile, I understand now.

I'm too cool to be a gunman.

More like too smart!!

[InqWiper 0]

Quote[/b] ]I'd say it's partly the "maniacs" parents fault, for not beatin' his ace when he did bad stuff.

Tell your parents to beat you up regularely if you do wrong things then.

It certainly will help not to turn you into a guy with psychological pressure and a tendency to go amok...

Just checked your profile, I understand now.

I'm too cool to be a gunman.  

More like too smart!!

Smart would be staying out to a discussion you dont understand. But I guess its too much to ask since people 2 and 3 times your age still arent capable of that.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Quote[/b] ]I'd say it's partly the "maniacs" parents fault, for not beatin' his ace when he did bad stuff.

Tell your parents to beat you up regularely if you do wrong things then.

It certainly will help not to turn you into a guy with psychological pressure and a tendency to go amok...

Just checked your profile, I understand now.

He has a point though (although not on purpose).

Alot of parents go way too easy on my their children, not caring when their child hurts somebody on purpose or blaming the school or whatever.

When i hurt my brother when i was younger my dad would most certainly pinch me, and you know as well as i do that you just cant talk to an enraged 14 year old boy, they dont listen/run away/scream/whatever, but he had to make clear that my behavior was 'inappropriate' somehow.

On the other hand there are parents who do nothing whatsoever.

A while back there was a program on dutch TV about children in certain neighbourhoods with alot of problems with children/teenagers. There were fucking 12 year old boys who kicked the cameraman who was filming, 10-12 year old boys wearing clothing similar to gangs in the US and showing the same behaviour as those gangs. Of these kids its known that their parents dont really raise them, some are scared for their children, some just dont do anything at all. (In this example there are more complications like failed integration of immigrants etc but that doesnt really matter for now).

Some kids just need to be raised in a more disciplined way then others, nothing wrong with that, and if hurting your child (like pinching at the moment he does something extremely inappropriate, ofcourse im not talking about beating your kid up) is necessary for that, then so be it. In the end it turns out better.

[Rustman 0]

Quote[/b] ]There isn't a single one of us that argues that everyone should have a gun

Well - some of your arguments is that everyone should have a gun, to prevent these massmurders that happends every so often in America.

Not the argument at all....the problem we have is that VT is a "gun-free" zone. Our argument is that "gun-free zones" do not promote safety, which, obviously, they don't. It's a comfort thing...not a safety thing. We're gonna make sure everyone feels safe and comfortable by making sure none of the people around them have those evil guns. Feels safe and being safe are two completely different things. The argument is that if VT wasn't a gun free zone then someone may have been able to stop further damage by this gunman. Nowhere in there is there even an argument that states that everyone should carry. If an individual wants to rely on the police to protect their person then that is their right...but it's not my personal choice. When it comes to murder police only do 2 things....zip up body bags and investigate the crime afterwards. Not comforting in my opinion.

[AgentJonathan 0]

Quote[/b] ]I'd say it's partly the "maniacs" parents fault, for not beatin' his ace when he did bad stuff.

Tell your parents to beat you up regularely if you do wrong things then.

It certainly will help not to turn you into a guy with psychological pressure and a tendency to go amok...

Just checked your profile, I understand now.

I'm too cool to be a gunman.  

More like too smart!!

Smart would be staying out to a discussion you dont understand. But I guess its too much to ask since people 2 and 3 times your age still arent capable of that.

First of all your telling that to somebody who has to study about politics every frikkin day. (I hate history)

Second and finally, I am strongly aware of what politics are.

So merry freakin' christmas! I am Republican!

ofpforum, I have a point and I mean to have a point; neither am I enraged, I just dispise that gunman! (Even though he's dead)

For as long as I have been part of this forum, I figured that you people would have figured out that I don't join a conversation unless I have an opinion. 'Know what else? I know all of what happened on that day! (I am a supreme news watcher.)

InqWiper, you get your way! I am done participating in something that will criticize my opinion, and my knowledge.

[InqWiper 0]

Quote[/b] ]I'd say it's partly the "maniacs" parents fault, for not beatin' his ace when he did bad stuff.

Tell your parents to beat you up regularely if you do wrong things then.

It certainly will help not to turn you into a guy with psychological pressure and a tendency to go amok...

Just checked your profile, I understand now.

I'm too cool to be a gunman.  

More like too smart!!

Smart would be staying out to a discussion you dont understand. But I guess its too much to ask since people 2 and 3 times your age still arent capable of that.

First of all your telling that to somebody who has to study about politics every frikkin day. (I hate history)

Second and finally, I am strongly aware of what politics are.

So merry freakin' christmas! I am Republican!  

ofpforum, I have a point and I mean to have a point; neither am I enraged, I just dispise that gunman! (Even though he's dead)

For as long as I have been part of this forum, I figured that you people would have figured out that I don't join a conversation unless I have an opinion. 'Know what else? I know all of what happened on that day! (I am a supreme news watcher.)

InqWiper, you get your way! I am done participating in something that will criticize my opinion, and my knowledge.

I wasnt talking about politics. I was commenting on how you seem to think that you are too smart to be a gunman. Do you think this kid had a much lower IQ than you and thats why he did it? Do you think smarter people are more sane than dumb people? Ive heard exactly the opposite. If you lose your mind and kill a bunch of people it doesnt really say alot of your intelligence. This is the type of discussion I said you dont understand anything about and should stay out of. Say whatever you want about the gunlaws but the human mind is far more complicated than you seem to think it is and when you say stuff like you are too smart to kill people I just think its better if you dont say anything.

Dont expect people to know what you are like when you have 382 posts in a forum with 45146 registered users. If you join a discussion people with oppsite opinions will pretty much always criticise your opinion and your knowledge, even with more mature, smart and enlightened people than you meet here.

Dont take the critisism too hard. If you only feel like I beat you on the head with a stick then its no use. Just read what people say and consider it. Things are alot more complicated than some people are evil and others are heroes and it just annoys me when people come and try to simplify things and make it black and white. The day that someone fully understands anything will be a glorious day for mankind.

[BraTTy 0]

Vermont considers having a concealed weapon without a permit an fundamental right and it isn't the Wild West there. Safer to be in Vermont than in Washington DC. But, why?

I live in Vermont ...you cannot have a concealed weapon.NO

You can have a visible weapon without any permit.

We don't have a gun or crime problem at all.Hardly anyone dies around here and if they do ,its big news

Very safe here, altho I have seen some rise in crime

Maybe 1 or 2 shootings a year if at all.

Obviously because of the nature of the people.We don't live in a city environment with grouchy people

Most youths here are brought up hunting and know proper use of a firearm.Most use firearms at a young age

During hunting season accidental shootings happen and its often not a Vermonter.usually a out-of-stater or Canadian

I am one of the ones that believe not everyone should have guns.Only Military and Police should have them.

Scares me to think some of the rednecks that have guns.People still have them in their cars

Suppose it helps keep your friendly attitude to others no matter who they are

[AgentJonathan 0]

There's where your wrong Inq!

I am smart enough to not be a gunman. I hate murder, conspiracy, theft, lies and the whole rest of the group...

I assure you that in my life, that'll <span style='color:red'>NEVER HAPPEN</span>.

See, I actually get punished for doing the wrong things, such as smart-arse remarks, and crude humor.

I know what I am talking about because I am risen in a good home, and there is no way you can persuade me otherwise!

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]I hate murder, conspiracy, theft, lies and the whole rest of the group...

Reason number one to turn you into a fanatic gunman oneday fulfilled.

You hate.

Reason number two to turn you into a fanatic gunman oneday fulfilled.

Quote[/b] ]See, I actually get punished for doing the wrong things, such as smart-arse remarks, and crude humor.

You feel victimized

Reason number three to turn you into a fanatic gunman oneday fulfilled.

Quote[/b] ] and there is no way you can persuade me otherwise!

You have no indications of self-reflection

Quote[/b] ]I assure you that in my life, that'll NEVER HAPPEN.

I assure you that NOONE here can claim such as it´s the sum of things, psychological illnesses and a million of other reasons that can turn EVERYONE into a gunman. (if access to firearms is granted)

You´re 13 years old if your profile is correct. How on earth would you know what life will serve you and how it will alter your mind, your thinking and your state of mind ?

[AgentJonathan 0]

I know I will never do this kind of thing because I believe that it is wrong. Cho thought everyone else had the prob, and he didn't care if it were right or wrong.

You can make up your mind that I will be a mass murderer, but I will never be a mass murderer. I wont even be a murderer, or participate in it...

Rest assured. I promise I won't ever get into this.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

I know I will never do this kind of thing because I believe that it is wrong. Cho thought everyone else had the prob, and he didn't care if it were right or wrong.

You can make up your mind that I will be a mass murderer, but I will never be a mass murderer. I wont even be a murderer, or participate in it...

Rest assured. I promise I won't ever get into this.

Probably you won't - but his point is, that the other 'massmurders' probably didn't feel like growing into a massmurder when they were 13 years old.

That you are raised in a good home, is great. It backs you up statistically - but some people just turn insane. You might get hit by a car at age 18 and get a mental illness. Hopefully you will not, but it's not something we can predict.

At your mental state right now, it's unlikely that you would turn into anything like that - true. And don't listen to his step 1 - step 3 recipee on a massmurder, he is just flaming ya

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]And don't listen to his step 1 - step 3 recipee on a massmurder, he is just flaming ya

No, I´m dead serious.

Noone can exclude himself from the list of potential amokrunners.

There are just too many factors that can bring you there, so claiming "I will never be a gunman" is maybe representing his current state of mind, but in no way he can predict such for a duration of a lifetime. This is just naive.

[karantan 0]

Of course it's naive, he's (quite immature) thirteen, you've gaved him a very nice reflection on his post (and on the 'emotions' in it), and he understanded 'zippo'. Not worthed Balschoiw ...

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Quote[/b] ]And don't listen to his step 1 - step 3 recipee on a massmurder, he is just flaming ya

No, I´m dead serious.

Noone can exclude himself from the list of potential amokrunners.

There are just too many factors that can bring you there, so claiming "I will never be a gunman" is maybe representing his current state of mind, but in no way he can predict such for a duration of a lifetime. This is just naive.

Exactly what I said - but that doesn't change the fact that creating a 3-step checklist and put it in his face is both stupid, non-informative and is provocative.

[shinRaiden 0]

Indictments handed down regarding the previously cited Salt Lake City shootings : http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,660221679,00.html

Quote[/b] ]

• Mackenzie Glade Hunter, 19, of West Jordan, on charges of possession of a firearm by a user of controlled substances and unlawful transfer of a firearm to a juvenile.

• Brenden Taylor Brown, 20, of West Jordan, on charges of unlawful transfer of a firearm to a juvenile and making false statements to authorities.

• Matthew Hautala, 20, of Rock Springs, Wyo., on a charge of making a false material statement.

• Westley Wayne Hill, 38, of West Valley City, on charges of unlawful transfer of a firearm and failure to make appropriate entry and maintain required records.

"If these individuals had followed federal firearm laws now in existence, Mr. Talovic would not have had these firearms to use in the tragedy that unfolded in Trolley Square on Feb. 12," Tolman said Thursday.

...

Lawyers for Brown and Hunter did not return calls Thursday. Hautala is serving in the U.S. Army in South Carolina. Authorities said he will be returned to Utah to face the charges.

[jman 0]

I cant believe that we are still talking about this. In my experiance there are those that believe that civlians should be able to have guns and those that don't. Most of the time those on either side will never change their opinion. Some of this thread has also been a divide between America and Europe. I cant belive that some of you are afraid of people just because they have guns. This is mostly pointless, the two sides of this argument will never agree or comprimse on anything, so why bother trying to tell the other side about your right to protect yourself and others or that you should rely on the police to help you and hope they get there in time. I will make one point though. I don't know much about the goverments of Europe and other places but Im sure most of you hate my country and wouldent want to live here. With all of the attacks on our freedom and sovereignty and outright murder by our own government can you make an argument that we should not be able to defend ourselves aganst our own government that is trying to take away all freedom?

[-Snafu- 78]

Well that's quite an assumption to make about peple across the atlantic. No I don't hate America, I love going there and everyone has been nothing but nice to me, furthermore some of my relatives are American. I'm disgusted by that comment. Maybe you shouldn't look at things so simplisticly? For example saying that guns prevent crime. Wouldn't it be better if you tackled the causes of crime? ie poverty. This would be a long term solution. But no, that's not going to happen in a modern functionalist culture.

Murder by your own government? Taking your freedom? Where do you live? North Korea?

Yes I don't like the fact that people could carry guns, The Police/Army are trained to identify their targets before they even consider firing. Civvies aren't. A nervous person with a loaded firearm is bad news.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]With all of the attacks on our freedom and sovereignty and outright murder by our own government can you make an argument that we should not be able to defend ourselves aganst our own government that is trying to take away all freedom?

Good point.

So why don´t you do it actually ? I guess you can´t get much more betrayal as for now. I wondered about this pro-gun argument for a while now. You have the situation where your government is comitting one illegal act after the other but noone of the "freedom defenders with guns" picks up their arms ? Funny.

Astonishingly the NRA and the majority of gun owners are with Bush as he´s a cowboy, ya know ?

I´m happy that not every undereducated sociopath ine urope runs around with a gun. If you want to have it that way, fine.

I guess victims of shooting in the US are somewhat victims of evolution then.

I just wonder why you still have police over there ? Summed up from the posts here they are not capable, they are unreliable and they have no legal obligation to help you. Get rid of them and hand guns to everyone. Not that you already have weekly frantics running around with a gun in busses, schools, Walmart, governmental buildings and other public areas, no, some of them have a blast using them on civillians aswell.

You´re right, I don´t envy you, nor do I want to be part of such hypocracy society, where size still seems to matter

[jman 0]

In response to the above 2 posts.

so you don't think Americans are having their rights taken? You believe that the Branch dividians burned themselves alive? Do you believe that a well trained sniper accidentally shot a mother while holding her baby? Im not just talking about guns. Some in my goverment want to controll the internet, and stiffle free speech. Then theres eminate domain used to take someones land so a private buisness can make money. What about the North American Union? I also said MOST of you hate my country NOT all of you. In this thread things have been said about America and it seems that everywhere you go on the net, mostly when about guns or bush you get a lot of America bashing. Yes i also see some europeans who envy certain things about my country, but most of the time I see only negative things from across the pond.

As for Bush being a cowboy hahaha that is funny. He wishes he was a cowboy, hes not even from texas.

As for civilians not properly identifing there targets, and the sterotype of the gun owner who is nevous and waiting to shoot someone over nothing or at some shadow in the dark of his house. Thats just silly. You dont need special training to tell that the guy thats trying to rob some helpless woman at knife point is a badguy, or the the guy in you kids bedroom with a skimask at 1am is there for a bad reason. Dispite what our news tells us, and probably(correct me if Im wrong) yours too is that you just cant kill someone for looking at you the wrong way just because you have a carry permit. You have to have a GOOD reason. You have to be in fear of great bodily harm or death to you or others. The only other reason is to stop a felony in progress, at least here in Florida, I cant speak for other places.