Some info on Modern NVGs as used by US

[fireship4 0]

I found some interesting information on the NVGs as used by the modern US forces.

http://www.militaryinfrared.com/AN_PVS_&_Night_Vision_Goggles.html

Here are some of the most interesting things I found out while browsing this (and other) articles:

# The goggles have very good resolution and the noise that BIS simulates when you wear them is incorrect as far as I can tell.

# The goggles have an in-built compass (which is 15 deg. off! ).

# You cannot use ironsights (M16 anyway) in conjunction with the goggles! You must use a IR pointer or tracers.

# The goggles may shut down and need to be reset if wearer is exposed to light which is too bright.

# The article says the field of view is 40 degrees, reduced for 188 degrees normal human front facing FOV (other sources say human FOV is just below 180.)

# From what I can tell in the article, the view the user has is a perfect circle.

# They are hard to use prone!

# They only work where ambient light is present, ie from moon and stars. In a dark building an IR illuminator must be used (suposedly included/attached one only works to short distance).

# The goggles must be refocused for near and far

# They self ajust for conditions

# Can be whited out by mussleflash (mentioned gun is m240G)

I would love to see all/some of these things modded into Arma sometime.

[Jackal326 1173]

Yes, those are some good and realistic suggestions, but if we're going to be this picky about how realistic the game should/would/could be, then there are billions of other things that need adding/changing as well in addition to the suggestions you made.

[LeftSkidLow 1]

I've used a pair for a few minutes that they allow to Helicopter EMS pilots to wear and the resolution was really good. There was no static stuff at all, and the field of view was far greater than that of ArmA. They do have to be adjusted to read the instrument panel and see out of the windsreen at the same time, though I have no idea how its done. It was a binocular type, so maybe one optic is set for close and the other is adjusted for distance.

[fireship4 0]

Yep Jackal you are right, I'm not demanding these things or anything, just would be cool in the "wargames" mod etc.

But since the community here is geared towrds realism it would be nice to have some of the easier things right in the first place, ie the "noise", the field of view, etc.

[fasad 1]

It would be interesting to see how the user's visual precision is compared to the naked eye. It is one thing to say the NVGs have hi-res or little noise, but when you realise how hopeless the users vision in game is compared to real eyes it may well be necessary to reduce the in game NVG vision to a suitable relative level.

In real life, 20/20 (6/6) vision is meant to be normal. In my testing in ArmA and OFP, that's approximately realized using 1600x1200 screen res and maximum zoom through a rifle's iron sights. The problem is you are only seeing 15 degrees rather than the 180+ a real person can see (obviously not all at same precision).

[abs 2]

So is this an addon or a mod you're making?

Abs

[fireship4 0]

No no, just some details which are missing which people may not have known about. There is a chance though that I'll put in a couple of the points myself (fov, circle, noise) if I feel the urgent need.

Im sure much of this will be implemented into mods such as "wargames" as I mentioned above anyway.

[wolfbite 8]

Huh interesting thatnks for that.. would be interesting to add in eventually i guess

[W0lle 1048]

Moving since this has nothing to do with Addons or Mods.

[max power 21]

Later generation night vision also lets the wearer see into some of the infrared spectrum, allowing the user to see 'invisible' spectre IR lasers and such. I think this would be hard to simulate, unless you could make something nearly invisible in normal light ranges using the HDR engine and then try to make the night vision really sensitive.

[Staos 0]

I've actually used a civilian 3G AN-PVS 7, and I can tell you that while pretty much everything you said is true, the third generation tubes (and to an extent 2G) amplify even very little light to be bright as day. Only in ABSOLUTELY complete darkness would you use the IR, which almost never occurs naturally.

HTH.

[dslyecxi 23]

One thing you did not list is that the PVS7 and PVS14 have "day" covers that allow them to be used in normal daytime lighting. This is contrary to ArmA's modeling of them in which bright light causes them to be unusable. Putting on the day cover is easy - you just pop a little lens cover over the front of the device, and it has a small pinprick hole through which it gets light.

Also, with the day cover on you can use ironsights. With it off, you cannot - things up close become blurred, whereas with it on everything stays in good focus. By "use ironsights" I mean that you could take a pistol and use those kinds of sights. Rifles or other weapons where you need to achieve a stock weld would be much more difficult.

There are many things that could make the ArmA nightvision more realistic, but they honestly are not that important, and many of them would be difficult to do - such as ironsight restrictions based upon NVGs/NVG mode/etc. Infiltration did a good job of many of the things mentioned, though - if you haven't seen my article on it (in my sig), check it out. They did IR lasers, nightvision scopes, etc.

[fireship4 0]

I have read it Dslyecxi, like most of your stuff. I'm proud to have been replied to by you, keep up the good work.

How easy would it be to implement IR beams in Arma? Ones where you can see the full beam? Or is it even possible to make the beam show up on NVGs when it reflects off something, ie a wall or smoke.

Now that would be cool.

PS why would you want to use the NVGs in daylight? To see IR?

[frederf 0]

Real infantry often have serparate NVG devices as optics mounted to their weapons (since they cannot use the AN-PVS7 with an ACOG sight for example).

ArmA is simply getting double duty out of the AN-PVS7.

I agree about the noise though. It's very GRAW/Hollywood to have such noise. Back in OFP someone made a nice mod that reduced the noise considerably.

[fireship4 0]

I've actually done that myself, aswell as modified the view while wearing the goggles. I haven't tested it yet but can release it if anyone is interested.

Also the NVGs in real life can have a 3x magnifier attached, is it possible in game through the use of proxies or something to actually change gear while playing? For example - remove/add magnifier/daylight cap/different scope to gun - In-game and not just before a mission starts?

[gm2kfp 0]

I've owned both a PVS-7 and a PVS-14 and you cannot believe how well they work until you try them. 3rd gen night vision is jaw dropping. If you have enough light there is very little or no "noise" on a 7 or 14 with a good tube. The noise will increase in darker areas or if you increase the gain manually (14's have a manual gain adjustment).

I find the simulation in Arma to be reasonably close. I was playing a night mission and was surprised to see that Arma simulated the "gain up" of PVS-7's so when you were looking out and had moonlight/starlight the noise diminished but when you looked into a darker area the noise increased.

The one thing with night vision that Arma has completely wrong is the ability to use iron sights/scopes while wearing night vision. Due to the bulk of the headgear/unit it is virtually impossible to use iron sights or scopes with real night vision. The PVS-14 can be weapon mounted so it will work with a NV compatible optic like the Aimpoint but then you would only have the night vision while actually aiming with the weapon. In the real world you use a high powered infrared laser like a PAQ-4C or PEQ-2 and point and shoot using the laser.

Another thing with using night vision in the real world is they work much like binoculars and must be focused to the distance you want to see at. They can be set to infinity and everything past about 15feet will be in focus so you only really need to focus when doing something close up like reading a map etc... You focus by rotating the front element of the goggle/monocular.

The way Arma simulates night vision, while not realistic, is probably the best compromise they could do. The option of having a working PAQ-4C/PEQ-2 would be nice though.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

ArmA doesn't simulate modern 3rd gen' night vision

technology (or in fact any other modern military

technologies)!  

The ArmA "night vision technology" is straight out of

the 1960's (but without all of the problems of blooming,

streaking and distortion that the old 1st gen' devices

had).

[4 IN 1 0]

maybe force player to take of NVG when using ironsights on an non-NVG attached guns? then add in the laser for them so you wont need to see through the sight? that would work

[PeterEyres 0]

I've actually done that myself, aswell as modified the view while wearing the goggles. I haven't tested it yet but can release it if anyone is interested.

Also the NVGs in real life can have a 3x magnifier attached, is it possible in game through the use of proxies or something to actually change gear while playing? For example - remove/add magnifier/daylight cap/different scope to gun - In-game and not just before a mission starts?

Release! That would be mint.

I hate the bloody noise. I remember it must of been ECP that sorted the NVG

[dslyecxi 23]

Thought you guys might like to see that BIS did improve the NVG effect for 1.06, this is what it will look like in the US release.

Full Resolution

Full Resolution

Full Resolution

Full Resolution

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Damnation, where are you flogging this stuff from? Though I'd prefer a Vista-fix meself, heheheh.

[4 IN 1 0]

stop ruining our fun Dslyecxi !!!!!!!!!!

nah~ J/k, anyway @CameronMcDonald

he know someone who(sort of ) is beta tester of BI

[Maddmatt 1]

Did someone from BIS read this topic and suddenly decide to change the NVGs in the game or was it just some odd coincidence?

It's good to see more improvements.

Shouldn't there be just a little bit of noise with that NVG though? Not that I would know, just wondering.

[arigram 0]

It would be nice to have the option of the older NVG effect for use in a mission or mod with first generation goggles.

[dslyecxi 23]

Quote[/b] ]Did someone from BIS read this topic and suddenly decide to change the NVGs in the game or was it just some odd coincidence?

No, this happened well before this topic started.

Quote[/b] ]Shouldn't there be just a little bit of noise with that NVG though? Not that I would know, just wondering.

There's not much noise in them in reality, aside from when things get extremely dark - then it gets grainy.