The weapons thread.

[Mora2 0]

I agree with Heatseeker!

This recoil exagerating is crap.

some love these recoils, it reminds me FDF recoil. I hated it.

Its impossible to fire 2 shots 1 after the other (fast) without hiting near the target. The Aim takes "too much time" to get the center for the next shot. About this subject i think OFP was/is much better.

Yeah... this and playabilty dynamism regarding the soldier movement is the worst thing about this game.

[Second 0]

Want to simulate nervousness? Show it on screen so I can compensate with skill. There is no weapon sway. Your aim can be dead on and you will miss anyway. It makes no sense, takes any shred of realism out of it. Then the AI pops off one round and head shots me at 250m w/out NVGs using iron sights in the blackness of night.

Saying that it is accurate for a modern assault rifle to hit at 20-25% at 150m from a prone position is ok is pure fanboyism.

I'm copying what i said earlier:

Quote[/b] ]To weapons accuracy then: Did you gualified in riflerange with M16 in training mission? I completed it with all every shot hitting target couple of times (maybe average was 1 or 2 misses, i don't remeber), so i don't think that weapon, M16, itself is unaccurate. AK-74 and M4, by my experience in ArmA, are bit more unaccurate.

Weapons is quite accurate so it is player doing things wrong (or using pistol or AK-74u). And oh now i remeber why my shot missed the targets once: missed shots were because of (by-accident) i switched burst on... So i'm not fanboy i just handle marksmanship in ArmA

To Col. Faulkner

Basics of shooting haven't changed from times of muskets, it seems. My all soldier's manuals gathered (earned, stealed, bought etc...) from years 1980-2003 says the same thing:

"The rifle must point naturally at the target without physical effort"

[mr reality 0]

I agree with the the majority on here. I will also add that i'm thinking along the lines of LastRifleRound when he wrote

Quote[/b] ]The only thing real about ArmA is that you die in one or two shots. That's it.

I served in the army for over 6 years in a infantry battallion and i found shooting a real weapon to be far easier than shooting a weapon in ArmA. I was a pretty decent shot in flashpoint and had a 85-90% chance of hitting a moving target with my first round. In Arma i have a 30-45% chance.

There's something just not right about the movement of the sight, whether its too sluggish or delayed i don't know. I know weapons have weight, but a fully trained soldier would be used to this and to compensate for the weapons weight ingame by making them "lag" a little isn't a great way to do it.

I often find myself firing off 3 rounds just to be sure one of them hits. I also find that i panic more in ArmA when i come under fire. This is because i know if i don't move i'll be dead, because i havn't got faith in the weapon i'm using so instead of returning fire i try to move away.

I've played the training missions and i got close to top marks in all the ranges. Hit all targets with the M16 but found i needed the 5 seconds just to align the sights. Now when you've got moving targets you haven't got 5 seconds, 2 at most, especially with the sniper like skills the AI have.

Now before a fanboy makes a comment on the lines of "you need to practice more" or "maybe your just crap at this game", Remember i've played Flashpoint for 3 years...

[LastRifleRound 0]

Yes. The attitude around here is that there's something wrong with you if the aiming is crap.

I scored one off on the M16 range. I suppose most people scored high on that.

Most games (America's Army, for instance) enhance the realism by simulating breathing cycles and stances with barrel sway. If you're using a 3D sight parralax will even affect you. The reward is if you time it right, if you are patient and use your eyes, if you line up those sights, you hit your target.

This is very basic. This is why there is such a thing as aiming devices. I don't care if shooting is difficult, just like I don't care if AI is difficult. It's WHY it's difficult that is the problem. The sights should be hard to align and calibrate. But when you're on target at a decent range (150m) your round should hit with none of this cheesy scripted missing business to artificially prolong the game.

The AI should be difficult because of its intelligence, not because it has omniscient powers and obvious hax.

Bottom line, difficult does not equal realistic. And there's a difference between difficult and aggravating.

[Skaven 0]

In my opinion the aimming system is indeed a little bit harder to aquire which some may find better and some may find worse, it's all a question of taste really.

For the fans of realism, OFP seemed closer to the real thing, I've also been in the army some time ago and according to my experience, most of the weapons don't have such a big recoil as they do in ARMA, specially not when your on a prone position.

Perssonaly, I'm making an addon where I give the AI a higher dispersion rate of firing so I can have larger firefights and acctually manage to stay alive more time without using the TeamSwitch command (something like JAM on OFP) it's really just a .cpp file work and everybody could do it easily.

I'm also decreasing the recoil in my weapons (addons) so it's a little bit easier to aim and shoot on target.

In reality we can easily make the weapons in Arma exactely as they were in OFP it's really simple, people wright a lot of complains in here but they would wright a lot less making a simple config.cpp file which would fix this issue.

[celery 8]

Regarding the shooting range:

The M16 is the only accurate assault rifle in the game in addition to M4A1 so it can't really be blamed on the shooter if they don't hit with some other weapon. The standard weapon M4+Aimpoint might have been accurate in the Napoleonic era if there were no muskets to go round. I don't remember many missions where you get to use the actual M16. I'm trying to say that while M16 might shoot where you point it, pretty much all other rifles have a random destination.

The pistols are pure abomination, you only hit randomly in a very large arc. Puhleaze!!!

[MisterXY 0]

My opinion is, fix the damn M16s single mode.

[Second 0]

I served in the army for over 6 years in a infantry battallion and i found shooting a real weapon to be far easier than shooting a weapon in ArmA. I was a pretty decent shot in flashpoint and had a 85-90% chance of hitting a moving target with my first round. In Arma i have a 30-45% chance.

Now before a fanboy makes a comment on the lines of "you need to practice more" or "maybe your just crap at this game", Remember i've played Flashpoint for 3 years...

Yes this is the bottom line. You have served 6 years, and played OFP for 3 years... How long have you played ArmA? Let's look at ours aiming accuracy when year has passed... I'm not as good shooter in combat situation in ArmA as in that training mission, or in OFP or as good shooter as i was in army (infantry, 1 year + plenty of reservist years training on my free time), but i'm getting better and better day by day just like in OFP and just like in army...

Universal rule seems to be that accuracy of shooting degreases when death is present... And in ArmA death usually is present. Shame that there no such thing as suppression present in ArmA, but i more likely take bit more realistic unaccuracy than bit less realistic sniperaccuracy, because there's no such thing as suppression in ArmA...

Anyways i think that i've made my point clear... Most part here seems to be thinking that weapons are too unaccurate, so maybe BIS should do something about it. I'm fine with changing the values, as i'm fine with current values.

EDIT: Oh and i needed only about 2 seconds to adjust weapon, confirm "sightpicture" and shoot (in that training mission). I just can't find a reason that ArmA's weapons would be harder to handle than in IRL... They are handled bit differently (yeah right! ) but i just feel that ArmA's way natrual. I don't know reason for it, but from first moment it felt right way... Maybe i sucked with rifle IRL

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Basics of shooting haven't changed from times of muskets, it seems.

"musketry" is just an old fashioned [british] term for

skill-at-arms with the rifle. It doesn't necessarily imply

use of a black-powder musket. In the smoothbore musket

era of short range volley-firing line infantrymen weren't

taught any scientific principles of marksmanship. That sort

of thing didn't come in formally until the end of the 19th

century. Riflemen undoubtedly knew about some of the

principles much earlier though. A <a href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/whisky01/rifles.jpg" target="_blank">recruiting poster for the

British 95th Rifle Regiment from the Napoleonic wars</a> says:

"In this Distinguished Service...you will knock down your

enemy at Five Hundred yards, instead of missing him at

Fifty"  

[LastRifleRound 0]

In my opinion the aimming system is indeed a little bit harder to aquire which some may find better and some may find worse, it's all a question of taste really.

For the fans of realism, OFP seemed closer to the real thing, I've also been in the army some time ago and according to my experience, most of the weapons don't have such a big recoil as they do in ARMA, specially not when your on a prone position.

Perssonaly, I'm making an addon where I give the AI a higher dispersion rate of firing so I can have larger firefights and acctually manage to stay alive more time without using the TeamSwitch command (something like JAM on OFP) it's really just a .cpp file work and everybody could do it easily.

I'm also decreasing the recoil in my weapons (addons) so it's a little bit easier to aim and shoot on target.

In reality we can easily make the weapons in Arma exactely as they were in OFP it's really simple, people wright a lot of complains in here but they would wright a lot less making a simple config.cpp file which would fix this issue.

How do you edit a .cpp file? What tool do you use? Where is the .cpp file relevant to this discussion located in the ArmA directory? I'd love to make some majore modifications to this game. I'll re-install it if I know I can make it not suck.

[Second 0]

"musketry" is just an old fashioned [british] term for

skill-at-arms with the rifle. It doesn't necessarily imply

use of a black-powder musket.

Thanks for explanation

[Lavandel 0]

I've read through these forums now for a couple of hours and this thread seemed the most appropriate to post this in.

Reading this thread through and sadly going off a bit on the OP's original meaning, I'd like to put forward the following:

After the patch 1.05 every hand-held weapon is firing ridicuosly random.

The easiest way to check this in on the firingrange in the trainingmissions.

I read that some people managed to hit all targets (save one or two) with their iron-sight M16 Assault Rifle and I can only come to the conclusion that you did that PRIOR to patch 1.05.

I am confident in my aimingskills both in real life and in computergames and even though the M16 Assault Rifle probably has the worst ironsight in the world it's still pretty impossible to hit targets at up to 100 meters range (that would be about 300 feet for you british guys).

This not only destroys your chances of "qualifying" for the M24 Sniper Rifle at the firing-range but also kills the game-experience in Singleplayer.

Seriously. I do believe ArmA is 100% more fun in Multiplayer but there's still a singleplayer mode with some solid missions to complete.

The AI doesn't seem to suffer from this "deviation" and can hit you, smack on target, almost every time at ranges well above 200 meters (yes, you guessed it, that'll be around 600 feet).

I sincerely hope that this will be adressed in an upcoming patch or I might be yet another guy who's putting this, otherwise AWESOME, game on the shelf.

I urge anyone else who think this is ridiculous to also respond in this thread so that BIS can see how stupid it is.

I can't even hit a stationary target at 30 meters (90 feet) in prone position and holding breath with an Aimpoint-equipped M4 Assault Rifle!!??

Anyone who would do that in real life should be considered a retard or simply be declared blind.

Heck, even a blind man would hit a target at that range.

Otherwise I must say this game is top-notch but this in-accuracy just annoys the h**l out of me. Enough to lower my enjoyment enough to quit playing.

The only way for me to enjoy this game again is to "revert" to the original installation and NOT patch the game (1.04) and thus not enabling me to play online since all servers I've seen so far is patched to 1.05.

I beg you, fix this ASAP.

Too bad my very first post had to be a negative one but it's how I feel right now.

Sad but true.

// Lav out.

[trebligb 0]

I am confident in my aimingskills both in real life and in computergames and even though the M16 Assault Rifle probably has the worst ironsight in the world it's still pretty impossible to hit targets at up to 100 meters range (that would be about 300 feet for you british guys).

Not that I don't think there is room for improvement, I have not played a pre-1.05 version and I found the M16A2 simultion to be quite accurate having qualified on a M16A2 countless times IRL.

If I have any complaint it is the choppy mouse movement I am fighting to get lined up on a target which is more my local PC's problem than anything else I think.

Also, I strongly disagree with the M16 having the worst iron sight in the world...... I quite like the sites and found them accurate and easy to use IRL.

[max power 21]

Well, I don't know if a lot of the content in your post is true. I qualified for the m24 on the first go. I'm certainly not experiencing the randomness that you're talking about. I've only played ArmA v.105 so I can't speak for what you could do before. The only weapons I find to have a significant amount of dispersion are the pistols.

[bravo 6 0]

if you all think the weapons have big recoil, try the U.S crew man

you might get a surprise

[Second 0]

After the patch 1.05 every hand-held weapon is firing ridicuosly random.

The easiest way to check this in on the firingrange in the trainingmissions.

I read that some people managed to hit all targets (save one or two) with their iron-sight M16 Assault Rifle and I can only come to the conclusion that you did that PRIOR to patch 1.05.

I'm confused

EDIT: Or then not... Are we having filthy pirates in here. Har-har

Are there some differences with local versions? (mine is german)

I qualified M16 in 1.02 and in 1.05 all shots hitting the targets and aprox time between shots was 2.3 seconds (yes i looked at watch before and after shooting). With bad luck i missed 2 or 3 shots out of 30.

Just today i was practising hitting in sideways running targets. Results were good: to 150 meters hitting procent was almost 70, and to 300 meters about 10%. That was with both M16 and AK74.

Yes M16 ironsights are bad (from my point of view)... I'm used to shoot with much thicker pole (don't know the official eglish name, but that pole in frontsights). If i'd had RK-62's sights (FDFmod) and bullet, hittingprosent would be much better in moving targets.

[Lavandel 0]

if you all think the weapons have big recoil, try the U.S crew man

I'm not talking about any recoil here. I'm talking about which "direction" the bullet has when it's leaving the barrel.

It's certainly not straight, that's for sure.

Some dispersion due to wind is something you have to compensate for in real life but the way the weapons act for me in 1.05 is just awful.

Maybe I should get my pretty butt on a boat and get to Germany and buy a german version and then patch it to 1.05. Might be different

[l mandrake 9]

I can't even hit a stationary target at 30 meters (90 feet) in prone position and holding breath with an Aimpoint-equipped M4 Assault Rifle!!??

FADE? Gotta be.....

[trebligb 0]

I can't even hit a stationary target at 30 meters (90 feet) in prone position and holding breath with an Aimpoint-equipped M4 Assault Rifle!!??

FADE? Gotta be.....

lol, agreed. I can hit some thing at 30 meters without using the sight view standing on my first shot.

[Lavandel 0]

I'm talking about hitting my target with the first shot.

Not the second, not the third...

Seems like I'm the only one with this problem then.

Gonna look out for ArmA next time I'm in Germany and buy that one, mod it to english, and see if I get luckier.

Forums helpful?

My a$$.

[BroK3n 0]

meh... the forums have been helpful so far... except for that time 1.05 patch came out.... so many painful remarks.

Sounds like FADE tbh. Try reinstalling if you're having a legit copy. A different EXE signature could trigger FADE on a legit copy i think so no-cd cracks are a no no.

[Lavandel 0]

Aha.. I am using a no-cd .exe.

That might explain it.

Thanks a lot BroK3n, first helpful reply in the whole thread.

[Maddmatt 1]

Aha.. I am using a no-cd .exe.

That might explain it.

Thanks a lot BroK3n, first helpful reply in the whole thread.

There were other posts before his that said FADE .

[Lavandel 0]

Removed no-cd, inserted disc, works like a charm.

[max power 21]

I wish that launching into a huge tyrade about how the game is poorly designed was the last thing that people did after discussing what they might be doing to break it.