How good is the AI ???

[arraamis 0]

Hey guys,

I would like to ask those who have experienced the nuances of mission creation a question. I'm thinking of designing a series of sniper based missions which would include:

Solo-Assasination missions

Counter-sniper tactics {one on one}

Grasslands

Urban

etc....

But as I've been learning & experimenting with the editor, this question hit me.

Can the AI improvise and adapt to a human opponents stragegy?

This would be an essential element, for I don't want to be able to predict how the AI is going to react under circumstances. That would make it too easy to eliminate any targets. And it wouldn't provide the training I'm trying to get out of this effort. I know its more of a challenge to face another human opponent {been there plenty with BF2}, but I would like to have that in a practice scenario in ArmedA.

Is it doable??

Thanks

[bootleg soldier 2]

If theres one thing you can predict its that you can't predict the AI in this game and very rarely will a mission play through in a similar way if it's done well, so have a tinker around and good luck.

Bootleg

[Bingo 0]

I've always found in mission-editing (without going in to some serious scripting), that the unpredictable behaviour of the AI is a bonus. And this is one of the things I love about the OFP/ARMA way of doing things.

I once set up a pretty simplistic mission in the OFP Editor. You play a lone sniper that's got to town and the jeep is bust. Right in your heels are two choppers full of Ruskies whose only order in the mission editor is to search and destroy.

It played out differently every time, even though I knew where the choppers were going to try and land. With a bit more scripting and some more variance it could have been more random... That's the beauty of this engine.

Have fun bud!

[walker 0]

Hi arraamis

ArmA is about the most intelligent AI in an FPS. Are they perfect? No.

No AI has passed Turing test yet. When it does you will hear about it on the news.

That said ArmA is better than OFP and surprises you on a regular basis. Flanking and use of cover and reloading in cover are some example improvements.

BUT ArmA and OFP AI surprise you even after years. Give the AI plenty of units to react with via Guard waypoints and you will find it reacting in very complex and sometimes frighteningly cunning ways.

The guard waypoint is the key to all flexible dynamic AI in OFP and ArmA.

We also have many great advantages over other games and simulations AI. ArmA like OFP is fully script-able.

Secondly and more importantly BIS opened up the AI in ArmA to modding! It has the Finite State Machine(FSM) exposed to editing.

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/FSM

There are several FSM editor tools about so you have real visual editing tools to change and enhance the way the ArmA AI works.

Here is an example by Kronzky of an improved urban patrol scripted AI

http://www.kronzky.info/ups/ups.htm

Kind Regards walker

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Is it doable??

I reckon you could, without too much further ado, knock up

something acceptabe for all of your scenarios except for

the "counter sniper" one. An AI sniper might well attempt

to "flank" you but he won't behave at all like a real sniper in

his use of cover, concealment or movement or in his choice

of firing positions. At least not "out of the box" without

considerable ad hoc scripting. It'd be fun for the first

couple of tries but would get predictable quite quickly, I

think.

I did once try to set up a mission in OFP where you had to

track and eliminate an enemy scout/sniper team using things

like bootprints, reports from NPCs, dropped brass, cigarette

smoke and stuff like that, but it required a lot of fiddling

and "ad hockery" to get it interesting enough to play and its

"replayability" was almost zero (but that may just have been

amateurish design on my part).

[walker 0]

Hi all

For Col. Faulkner's example of counter sniper or a hunt-able character one needs to use a little chaos theory and positive and negative attractors.

We have done some work on this at CoC.

Our purpose was realistic dynamic civilian clutter behaviour and crowd behaviour.

I think the programmable AI in ArmA will allow us all to sort out many of the movement issues we had in OFP.

Spinor has already worked on some dynamic civilian simulations using a little chaos theory and positive negative attractors.

I have had a little play with this along with some additional scripts and created realistic crowds that visit market stalls and places of worship or work and home.

The attractors can be linked to objects, vehicles, geographic locations, AI entities or abstract ideas and can be side specific or side elastic. They can also be scripted to alter levels of enmity and alliance forming multiple relationships and be fully dynamic. Using the existing ArmA/OFP/VBS AI and mixed enmity/alliance/neutral groups one can get some very complex reactions taking place.

With the improvements in ArmA we should have no problem transferring this to ArmA from its current location.

Join this with the FSM editor and we should be able to do some really amazing things.

Kind Regards walker

[Heatseeker 0]

Well, the a.i. seems uber good, meaning they can see and shoot a prone target with those tiny AK sights from a great distance.

The player must go prone in order to hit anything over distance but the a.i. can handle PK's while standing up.

I've been doing some tests (more like being owned) and they reacted quite well to my sniper atack with the M107 rifle..

Terrain advantage doesnt help, as soon as i expose a small fraction of my virtual body to be able to shoot i get one in the head.

In other words if you see a group of a.i. drop your weapon and run the oposite direction, unless you take them all out at once they will find you and kill you.

[Maddmatt 1]

Well, the a.i. seems uber good, meaning they can see and shoot a prone target with those tiny AK sights from a great distance.

The player must go prone in order to hit anything over distance but the a.i. can handle PK's while standing up.

I've been doing some tests (more like being owned) and they reacted quite well to my sniper atack with the M107 rifle..

Terrain advantage doesnt help, as soon as i expose a small fraction of my virtual body to be able to shoot i get one in the head.

In other words if you see a group of a.i. drop your weapon and run the oposite direction, unless you take them all out at once they will find you and kill you.

Do you have super AI on or something? Drop the skill level of the AI in the difficulty options.

At novice and normal they don't seem incredibly accurate.

[walker 0]

Hi all

I play at veteran and do not experience what you describe Heatseeker.

Most of the time the first thing the AI knows about me is them being dead. They rarely get a shot off.

But when they do spot me I often have the AI firing half clip in my direction at reasonable engagement ranges 200 to 300m. I have been in long range 500m engagement ranges where it has been half a box and more of MG fire before they got me. The only times I regularly see AI hitting me first shot is when I engage them at sub 200m in which case that is my own damn stupid fault for letting them get close; either that or I am not using the cover the terrain gives.

Is this experience when you are ramboing it? If so it is your own fault for letting them see you. Solo only works when covert. Otherwise stay with your squad AI or MP human when among your squad they have too many targets the focus on you as long as you observe, target, maneuver, fire and move you will not be singled out  

And anyone who stands or kneels up for more than 2 seconds, except when behind hard cover, in a fire fight deserves to have their head blown off.

I guess what I am really saying is you must be playing some odd setting or you desperately need some training mate.

Kind Regards walker

[william1 0]

mmmm they are not so good , everytime they see me they try to kill me...

[Heatseeker 0]

I was doing some solo testing in Rahmadi, in towns you have cover and the a.i. follow pathways like dumb ducks, in the open field they move, detect and shoot alot better.

I was testing their efectiveness, me against a.i. squad of 20 SLA's with skill settings from zero to halfway. Their skill seemed progressive but their acuracy over distance was quite good. A MG gunner shot me from aprox. 600M while i was prone on a hill atacking them with that M107 sniper rifle.

I dont think dificulty settings are relevant in the editor but i play in veteran mode with opfor skill set to normal and i have no problems to say that they can kick my ass .

[Maddmatt 1]

I was doing some solo testing in Rahmadi, in towns you have cover and the a.i. follow pathways like dumb ducks, in the open field they move, detect and shoot alot better.

I was testing their efectiveness, me against a.i. squad of 20 SLA's with skill settings from zero to halfway. Their skill seemed progressive but their acuracy over distance was quite good. A MG gunner shot me from aprox. 600M while i was prone on a hill atacking them with that M107 sniper rifle.

I dont think dificulty settings are relevant in the editor but i play in veteran mode with opfor skill set to normal and i have no problems to say that they can kick my ass .

The editor automatically sets the difficulty to cadet mode.

They should kick your ass when they outnumber you, this is suppose to be a realistic game . Recently I've been testing the AI at novice, at that skill level they suck at shooting from a distance. At closer ranges they still shoot accurately, but at times their reactions are slower. With novice AI and autoaim I'm sure ArmA can be easy.

Normal AI seems to be a fairly realistic level, in some missions it can get pretty hard. It also makes acting like Rambo very difficult, they are damn good at flanking and will shoot you in the side or back!

[froggyluv 2136]

.

The attractors can be linked to objects, vehicles, geographic locations, AI entities or abstract ideas and can be side specific or side elastic. They can also be scripted to alter levels of enmity and alliance forming multiple relationships and be fully dynamic. Using the existing ArmA/OFP/VBS AI and mixed enmity/alliance/neutral groups one can get some very complex reactions taking place.

This is what I've been waiting for. Dynamic civilians! I was playing C&H MP last nite in which killing civilians deducted points from your team but it would be great to turn this up a notch. Imagine civilians who depending on various factors, would get pissed off and actually arm themselves and ally with one side. This would force restraint on the 'blow the city sky-high' tactics currently happening.

[walker 0]

Hi all

In reply to Heatseeker

If you want better AI in urban try Kronzkys Urban Patrol Script

http://www.kronzky.info/ups/ups.htm

See if that improves their responses. And perhaps report you experience with script. I am sure others would like to see your thoughts.

Close up the normal AI beat my ass if they know I am there but that is down to me being a slow old duffer with reduced reaction times. They beat me slightly less often than the young kids in MP. It is why I have to play smart and out think them both human and AI.

Put me in a game of Hexenkessel and I usually get my ass kicked. There is not much room in it for intelligence and inventive solutions it is all about reaction time and being 20 to 30 years older than most of those who play it I loose a lot.

I tend to come out about even in larger scale battles such as Berzerk and the bigger CTFs and C&Hs the room to maneuver evens things out.

Put me in charge of a squad or better a platoon or better still a company maybe with air support and Artillery against the same and generally I grind the young kids into dust. Reaction speed counts for nothing if you have out thought the young kids before the battle. Reactions speeds will never get you out of a well designed meat grinder. Experience tells then.

Kind Regards walker

[Heatseeker 0]

Hi all

Close up the normal AI beat my ass if they know I am there but that is down to me being a slow old duffer with reduced reaction times. They beat me slightly less often than the young kids in MP. It is why I have to play smart and out think them both human and AI.

I've just redone my previous test about a.i. acuracy.

Placed a basic SLA squad (default editor skill, low) in the western side of the small Rahmadi town, then placed myself as a sniper on a hill aproximately 500M to the west.

Went prone and started to pick them, at this distance they are almost invisible without a scope. They perform their traditional behaviour, go prone and start counting friendly bodies .

After a short while they are able to see where im shooting from, some advance in my direction and the others stay put and open fire. Soon as they open fire im dead, theres no way i could do that with an AK74 from 500 meters away... its like a switch that ticks and turns them into gods.

OPFOR a.i. set to normal, terrain very low (no grass) and visibility 1200M.

My point was not about player skill, its about a.i. behaviour and extreme acuracy over long ranges, i could easily take some of them out and move to a diferent position... i know how to play cat and mouse.

Optimal a.i. would get their butts in cover the moment they hear distant gunfire coming their way, being atacked from the distance they should then try to flank me if the terrain provides cover, once within a realistic engagement range they should open fire .

I think the latest patch made them too sensitive, they can see perfectly at night.

[Mr_Tea 0]

That`s why i set the AI in "dumbass" mode, for the moment.

They are too godlike on normal.

[mr reality 0]

I agree also with Heatseeker and Mr_Tea. It has nothing to do with how good or bad i am but how great the AI is when it comes down to accuracy at long ranges.

[froggyluv 2136]

IMHO, Aimbotting is the biggest SP immersion-killer. If the AI varied in accurracy according to their skill level it wouldn't be so bad but when they're all crack shots its just not believable. Currently I'll pretty much only play MP as the firefights seem more realistic with the appropriate 'get set' happening before the shot (not Hex) . Hopefully they'll iron all this out as well as realistic sighting in foliage values.

Until then, off to Bezerk!

[zwobot 22]

Heatseeker I've done an identical sniper test on Ramhadi island with about the same result

[Soldat32 0]

There is truth to what heatseeker and others have said.They should have left the AI the way it was in OFP.While it wasnt the best it was fine the way it was.The AI now is way too accurate in any situation to be realistic.

[dmarkwick 261]

Hi all

In reply to Heatseeker

If you want better AI in urban try Kronzkys Urban Patrol Script

http://www.kronzky.info/ups/ups.htm

See if that improves their responses. And perhaps report you experience with script. I am sure others would like to see your thoughts.

I use this script and I like it a lot. The AI move toward you in a more human way, i.e. they try to go around you and surprise you from the sides/behind.

I have to say though, after some amount of testing this idea out, that the script uses some "magic AI" to find you. If you shoot one guy, then retreat and go all around the town without being seen, they still somehow find you.

That said, I still like it. It's only really a problem if you're the only one involved, as if you include some AI on your side with the same script applied things quickly become very chaotic (but realistic). Dynamic battles across the city can go on for a long time.

[Control 0]

While AI still have superaccurate weapons/eyes... they are nowere near as impossible as they were in OPF without the HD mags.

In OPF they killed you with a shot to the head from 600m with a silly submachinegun.

Much happier with AI in ArmA But there is still a lot of possible improvement

[Second 0]

While AI still have superaccurate weapons/eyes... they are nowere near as impossible as they were in OPF without the HD mags.

In OPF they killed you with a shot to the head from 600m with a silly submachinegun.

I agree. Original OFP's AI was killer: Weapons didn't have strong recoil, weapons sway was little and burst was killer. I'm dying much less in ArmA than in vanilla OFP if skill-level is set to same. They are shooting much more in ArmA, in OFP they took their time and usually didn't miss (skill-level higher than ~0-6).

[nubbin77 0]

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE"> skillFriendly=1.000000;

skillEnemy=1.000000;

precisionFriendly=0.350000;

precisionEnemy=0.600000;

Look for this in your profilename.Armaprofile file in your my documents and settings in arma folder.

The settings for Precision set the accuracy of the AI (you can make friendly AI better or worse than enemy also). That should allow some of you to get back into singleplayer. I know I hated being sniped. This helps considerabley.