chopper chainguns and shilka

[thy_raven 0]

just messing around on the editor and noticed something odd, when using the minigun on the small helicopter and when firing the shilka's main gun the bullets only stream from the left side, not left and right, even thought you can clearly see four barrels on the shilka and 2 miniguns on the chopper.

I was wondering is there any way to fix this? as the chopper seems fine firing rockets from both sides, why not bullets?.

[JdB 151]

An engine limitation that exists from the beginning of OFP, which alot of us were hoping to have gotten rid of with ArmA...

[Average Joe 0]

Thats one thing that really annoys myself, firing a minigun and watching the tracers come from the side?

[Richieb0y 0]

lol i thougt it was a bug but it seems it never gets solved

too bad

[MehMan 0]

Lets count it as a bug and hope BIS will fix it. I was hoping multiple turrets also meant multiple tracer locations. Maybe if the other minigun can be defined as another turret but it fires at the same time tracers can be implemented on it to?

[max power 21]

as far as I know (which is not a lot), in ArmA you need a gunner for each turrent, and each turret would act independently. There have been a few ww2 addons for ofp, I wonder how and if they solved the multiple forward firing guns issue.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

First, it's not a bug, it's an engine limitation. Second, they're gatling guns on the AH-6, not chainguns. BIS didn't impliment multiple muzzle positions per weapon/turret on vehicles, that makes it a non-feature. They don't have to add it, especially if the current method works.

[MehMan 0]

Well they don't have tracers, but they do have multiple muzzle flashes, it's pseudo multiple machine guns, col klink has it on his page.

[Maddmatt 1]

First, it's not a bug, it's an engine limitation. Second, they're gatling guns on the AH-6, not chainguns. BIS didn't impliment multiple muzzle positions per weapon/turret on vehicles, that makes it a non-feature. They don't have to add it, especially if the current method works.

Still would be nice if it worked.

The FFAR rockets fire from either side just fine, so why not the miniguns? It could be sorted with scripting, but this is something that should be in the game already.

I guess there are more important issues to be sorted out though.

[thy_raven 0]

fair enough, they are gatling guns not miniguns, tbh that point is rather irelevent. Why can the FFAR's fire from left and right but not bullets? and although yes it doesn't mean the game dosn't work, it does kill imersion a bit when your sitting the the shilka turret looking at 4 nice guns then get a single stream of rounds from ur left.

If its an engine limitation then fair enough, BIS can't really be expected to do anything about it, but is there a way of getting round the limitation? through modding or suchlike. the idea above about assigning multiple turret positions to a single gunner sounds interesting.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

First, it's not a bug, it's an engine limitation. Second, they're gatling guns on the AH-6, not chainguns. BIS didn't impliment multiple muzzle positions per weapon/turret on vehicles, that makes it a non-feature. They don't have to add it, especially if the current method works.

Still would be nice if it worked.

The FFAR rockets fire from either side just fine, so why not the miniguns? It could be sorted with scripting, but this is something that should be in the game already.

I guess there are more important issues to be sorted out though.

FFARs are also fixed and forward firing - they can't be put on turrets (at least they couldn't in OFP) or fire in any direction other than the direction the aircraft's model was pointing. FFARs are a different simulation than MGs, so don't try to make the comparison. Sure BIS might have been able to make MGs work like FFARs, but then we wouldn't have had any turrets at all.

[thy_raven 0]

ok then, is there any way of making the MG's act like FFAR's? like replacing the Ammunition type of the launcher to bullets or such like. in the case of the chopper they wouldn't have to act like a turret, they could be identical to the FFAR's but instead fire bullets.

[Maddmatt 1]

FFARs are also fixed and forward firing - they can't be put on turrets (at least they couldn't in OFP) or fire in any direction other than the direction the aircraft's model was pointing. FFARs are a different simulation than MGs, so don't try to make the comparison. Sure BIS might have been able to make MGs work like FFARs, but then we wouldn't have had any turrets at all.

So what if FFARs are a different simulation? All I'm saying is that the MG bullets should come out of 2 places and not one. BIS are developers, not modders. They can modify the simulation itself. They are not restricted by "engine limitations" as much as modders, since they are the ones who created it and they can change it.

Missiles/rockets don't have to be fixed to the vehicle, look at the BMP2, it can fire missiles from the turret. I don't think multiple turrets has much to do with this issue.

Otherwise you could just say that every problem in ArmA is an "engine limitation" and is not going to change.

[max power 21]

Launchers are a different programming class from guns and don't share the same properties.

I'm sure they'll change the properties of the classes if they want to and if time/funds permit.

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

@KyleSarnik: You telling absolute bullshit! Of course it is an engine limitation! But it conflicts dramatically with the reality. Hence it is a bug that might be solved in the next engine, but still a huge design bug like many others.

[thy_raven 0]

i can see why this probably isn't BIS's highest priority atm, but i'd like to think they will fix this somewhere down the line as it does detract from immersion somewhat. Although i understand that its one of the more minor faults, it would be a shame to leave it the way it is.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

@KyleSarnik: You telling absolute bullshit! Of course it is an engine limitation! But it conflicts dramatically with the reality. Hence it is a bug that might be solved in the next engine, but still a huge design bug like many others.

Shut up, no it doesn't conflict with reality, it's just a part of reality that's not included. I guess next you're going to start complaining about how being able to play again after being killed "conflicts with reality". Yea, sure... It's a game you moron.

[thy_raven 0]

come on people, agree to disagree. u both have valid opinions, lets just leave it at that. whatever it is, IS there any way round it?

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

@KyleSarnik: You are just another prick finding thousand excuses for BI. It is a fakt: Multi-barrel is easy to implement, they just forgot it or decided it is not worth to implement, it is a design bug since OFP, Kyle - go gaming and let this in peace.

PS: it is a similar design bug like the MP lobby - guys with your mindset should be forced to use the MP gui of 1.01

[Col. Faulkner 0]

This rather begs the question of why they would even

choose to include a multi-barrelled SPAAG if the engine

doesn't support it properly. Pending some sort of correction,

I guess you could say that some dopey Sahrani conscript

just mis-understood the meaning of "1 in 4 tracer"    

[thy_raven 0]

the shilka is there because it was in flash, i think. INNOCENT&CLUELESS and KyleSarnik, please stop insulting eachother, if you can help solve this problem, please post your suggestions, but if u just wanna insult eachother, please don't do it here.

I don't claim to know the ins and outs of the engine, but surely if you can make something like an FFAR fire from 2 points, with some changes, can't the same be done for bullets?

I get a feeling alot of this lies with somthing to do with turrets, which means for the shilka ther might be problems, but for the chopper with fixed guns, might there be hope?

[Col. Faulkner 0]

I think the consensus is that implementing multiple gun

barrels on a vehicle is entirely possible but would need

development work (ie. not something you could easily

mod, if at all). Given the crapload of other stuff BIS still

need to work on (in the opinion of some), and given that

the guns do actually perform their intended purpose well

enough, it's unlikely that this will get a high priority for

consideration.

Trying to mod in your own small-calibre-smokeless-tracer

FFAR to use as gun pods does look like it might be worth

some consideration. It's likely you might well get a decent

machine gun substitute from that.

I know the ZSU 23 was in Flashpoint, but I don't think it

worked properly even there, did it? In any case it has none

of the real life fire control systems of the real vehicle at all,

so "immersion" there is something of a non-issue I think.

[W0lle 1052]

Like I said in my PM to both KS and I&C:

Please stop flaming and insulting each other here, sort your issues in either PMs or somewhere else but not in these forums.

[deanosbeano 0]

you can solve it by adding an eventhandler to the shilka but for the helo it would need a math genius or use a drop command which can spawn a shape at the muzzle_2 and tthen take those velocities and coord and place a bullet there .(mind boggling huh). too much for me .

for shilka add a fired event handler and add something like this

i havent long and this will only do one shilka called shilk

and you will need to mess with _relpos =[?,?,?] to get the bullets where ya need them.

in shilkas init put

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">this addEventHandler ["fired",{_this exec "dummby.sqs"}]

dummby.sqs=

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">_bullet = nearestObject [shilk,_this select 4]

? isNull _bullet : exit

_Type= typeOf _bullet

_x =(getpos _bullet select 0)

_y =(getpos _bullet select 1)

_z =(getpos _bullet select 2)

_sx =( velocity _bullet select 0)

_sy =( velocity _bullet select 1)

_sz =( velocity _bullet select 2)

;hint format ["%1 %2 %3 ",_sx,_sy,_sz]

_relPos = [0,+.3,.1]

_worldPos = _bullet modelToWorld _relPos

_p = "B_23mm_AA" createvehicle _worldpos

_p setpos _worldPos

_p setvelocity [_sx,_sy,_sz]

_relPos = [0,+7,.1]

_worldPos = _bullet modelToWorld _relPos

_p = "B_23mm_AA" createvehicle _worldpos

_p setpos _worldPos

_p setvelocity [_sx,_sy,_sz]

_relPos = [.7,+.3,.1]

_worldPos = _bullet modelToWorld _relPos

_p = "B_23mm_AA" createvehicle _worldpos

_p setpos _worldPos

_p setvelocity [_sx,_sy,_sz]

_relPos = [.7,+.3,.1]

_worldPos = _bullet modelToWorld _relPos

_p = "B_23mm_AA" createvehicle _worldpos

_p setpos _worldPos

_p setvelocity [_sx,_sy,_sz]

sorry cant add anymore or help with the code tonight ,hope someone can make better or at least have fun .

[MehMan 0]

Or we should stop relying on scripts and workarounds for something that should've been there in the first place. Hopefully BIS will notice this. Forget modding everything, some things BIS should've included from start. I guess they missed this and I hope they frigging add this. Not that much to ask.