The next step in gaming should not be graphics...

[churnedfortaste 0]

All I ask is that they keep working on they AI and don't forget that it needs some improvement.

[Wolfrug 0]

MadRussian, I fear, hit the nail on the head on this one. It seems to me the reason many find the ArmA AI unrealistic and stupid is often because they are used to "me-centered" AI : basically AI whose only concern is catering to the player's individual needs : it starts when the player comes close enough, and ends when the player is dead, or in some cases, not close anymore. I mean, these are games that have "loading zones" for pete's sake, and maps the size of matchboxes

The AI in ArmA is entirely interchangeable with human players : NOT in the intelligence department or the full believability department, but then again the scripted AI of corridor-shooters generally behaves NOTHING like the player (any scripted AI [mind, in a semi-realistic FPS, not Unreal Tournament] could kill any player, no matter how "pwning", if they'd be scripted to attack with the intent to kill the player, not to strafe around looking cool and leaning from corners).

It is however more than possible to, when editing a mission for instance, play that same mission from the OPFOR side to check the level of difficulty (or just because it's cool). Basically : the player is not the beginning and the end of the AI behaviour ; he's just another cog in the machinery of war.

I do agree that the AI is not perfect, and particularily the vehicle-AI could do with a slight update, but as people here have been saying, if you don't like it : edit it! In OFP we've seen vast improvements in general AI, just through scripting. Imagine the possibilities of ArmA AI-editing. Mhmmm.

Aw man...imagine the day when FDF releases their mod with individually scripted FMS for Finnish infantry tactics (present-day and WW2) versus that of Russian Federation/USSR ; and maybe you'd later want to grab these and see how effective they'd be against, say, the UK army. And now imagine CoC's Command Engine would be optimised with FMS editing to work specifically with someone giving orders from on top ; and now add to that the future MP-compatability (playable at all ranks) of this same modification, with improved, custom-built-for-the-task AI, two opposing human commanders and JIP.

Aw man, I never understand how people can honestly believe this game is anything short of effin' awesome. ^_^

(There, I've had my fanboy rant :P now back to editing!

Kind regards,

Wolfrug

[BLSmith2112 0]

Quote[/b] ]AI should be now a priority as it spoils the whole experience completely.

Agreed. I would be fine with OFP GFX still if the smaller improvements were in there. Graphics mean nothing to me. AI + Extra game elements excluding gfx is what makes the game.

Even the horses mouth said they care way more about gameplay than flashy graphics.

[4 IN 1 0]

maybe we should ask Cortana how to creat a decent AI?

really most ppl seems to be only able to see what the AIs do wrong, but couldnt see how good it is

[Bingo 0]

most ppl seems to be only able to see what the AIs do wrong, but couldnt see how good it is

This is a common theme, not just in computer games, but outside of our virtual shooting ground aswell. Human beings these days are far more likely to complain than they are to praise. I caught myself on this one a few years back... I realised that when I got crappy service/products from a company I was on the phone and bitchin' them out until it was fixed.

I never, until my wakeup-day, called them to say when they excelled.

That's changed now. When a company makes an effort for my hard-earned greens, I will email/call them and let them know I appreciate it.

When a company screws up, I no longer jump on the blower and tear them a new pie-exit hole, unless I have been facing gross incompetence.

Now, back on topic

And, back on topic, the AI does excel when you put it in the spotlight alongside other titles available on the market. Most shooters these days are built with "multiplayer" in mind. Battlefield not worth mentioning, it's an MP game, end of. SP-mode exists purely to familiarise yourself with the goals and weapons, end of. Can't blame 'em for that.

Other games, it's just run and gun. There's a bad guy "bang!", haha, he's dead.

Arma... yes, the AI makes mistakes. But, and this is the important part:

The un-intelligent decisions that are noticeable in Armed Assault are only noticeable because of the excellence of the majority.

If the rest was idiotic, believe me, you'd hardly notice it.

This is my viewpoint, and that is all. George Bush does not approve of my message.

[NeMeSiS 11]

most ppl seems to be only able to see what the AIs do wrong, but couldnt see how good it is

Mostly because the AI doesnt show what they are doing, you cant see the difference between an AI thats charging you, retreating, being lost or an AI that has problems targetting or that he is looking around for a target.

In games like HALO its clear when an enemy retreats (hands waving in the air, AI makes certain sounds under certain conditions), but in ArmA you have no idea what they are doing unless you studied them for a while and you begin to see a patern.

IMO the AI is pretty good, they take cover when they have to reload, they cover eachother when there are no objects around when they are advanving in COMBAT behaviour, they know how to flank, they prefer to walk on roads when they are in SAFE behaviour, they give orders to eachother and shooting the squad leader first can affect the whole squad (due to lower rank/skill of the next leader in line) etc, but, its just not clearly noticable so most of this features go by unnoticed*.

*which i think is a good thing, i dont want troops retreating with their hands waving in the air or other theatrical effects, right now its fine IMO.

[G-LOC 0]

Change Caracter it´s a good way to make AI "think" like human. A Opposing Force can mimic a group of humans with few players. Simple, fast and reliable.

G-LOC

[JimLad 0]

Well I was just playing a mission there where I and 3 other SF have to clear out a town. And what do the soldiers do, they spot enemies and walk towards them bolt upright, and are subsequently cut down by enemy fire. One after the other, within about 30 seconds of the mission start - leaving me on my own. Not too impressive

[AWDrift 0]

I think the A.I. is great in the fields and forest, but it can be horrible in urban areas. Since urban combat is very common now and this game has modern soldiers naturaly people are going to try and recreate the battles they hear about everyday. When they do they see the bad side of the A.I. and come here to complain.

[G-LOC 0]

Well I was just playing a mission there where I and 3 other SF have to clear out a town.  And what do the soldiers do, they spot enemies and walk towards them bolt upright, and are subsequently cut down by enemy fire.  One after the other, within about 30 seconds of the mission start - leaving me on my own.  Not too impressive  

To clear a smal town you will need 4 platoon, not one fire team. Add air support, artillery, medevac, reforcement etc

G-LOC

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Well I was just playing a mission there where I and 3 other SF have to clear out a town.  And what do the soldiers do, they spot enemies and walk towards them bolt upright, and are subsequently cut down by enemy fire.  One after the other, within about 30 seconds of the mission start - leaving me on my own.  Not too impressive  

To clear a smal town you will need 4 platoon, not one fire team. Add air support, artillery, medevac, reforcement etc

G-LOC

There is a mission in the single player campaign that does that, and I'm sure that's what he's talking about. There are 2 fireteams and they both get plastered in about 30 seconds leaving you alone.

[dirtylarrygb 0]

I am sure this list isn't all because I have played Armed Assault relatively little and there is much more to explore and test. But it shows you some points were there has definitely been improvement over Operation Flashpoint.

Thanks Baddo. You're probably the first one who noticed of the advancements (judging from feedback fro gamers and also game journalists so far) .

I may add few other things that AI now does (and didn't in OFP):

- leap frogging

- taking cover more actively (also for reloading) in combat

We put a lot of effort to AI in ArmA and made singificant progress in that area. Of course, there's a lot that can be improved, as always. But it truly shocks me to see repeated often that the AI in ArmA is the same or even worse than in OFP.

The AI is ARMA is much improved than anything from Far Cry HL2, and frankly in smaller scripted linear areas it's very easy to fake "clever Ai" with scripts in corridors.

20 meter area, 30 scripts, wow ain't he clever, 400sq KM area, fook!

Compare ARMA bots with the best bots from BF:2 etc or Joint:ops, (same genre?) yes there no Einstien's but it's still a huge leap forward.

Can I ask will changing "terrain" details levels while playing a mission, affect the waypoint/pathfinding system for the AI units?

I'm glad some one else has seen an AI unit run off and loot a corpse for ammo as I thought I was imagining that. Also I've seen them regroup and not just charge in, most game bots have the charging instict of a middle-aged woman when the doors open to the Harrods sale.

Farcry had the same issue with bots ignoring foilage and just shooting players as ARMA has. Cryteks solution was give the player thermal vision! So like a bot they can also see through trees. RainboxSix:Vegas is the latest game to give us "thermal" bot vision.

At the moment no gamebot can challenge the fun skill or challenge or playing real people. Why are the bots dumb in BF2? cuase no one really cares, it's pure multiplayer. I'm sure if BOM' had dropped all MP parts of the game, the single player would have been highley polished. How many complaints would that have generated?

Till now, I have never witnessed in any game aAI bot smarter than a dumb politician. Day I see that, I will eat my hat.

[stabiz 0]

Better AI? Thats dangerous, haven`t you guys seen Terminator?

Anyway, I dont think the AI is too bad in ArmA. Some annoying bugs occur, but not too bad.

[horrgakx 1]

To clear a smal town you will need 4 platoon, not one fire team. Add air support, artillery, medevac, reforcement etc

I think the point he was making is that your AI squad members stand up into incoming fire. What job they were on is irrelevant.

[dirtylarrygb 0]

Better AI? Thats dangerous, haven`t you guys seen Terminator?

Anyway, I dont think the AI is too bad in ArmA. Some annoying bugs occur, but not too bad.

Erm yes I have seen T1-3, do you know the UK lauched our new Military Coms system this week into space. Yes our new C&C digital combined forces network has a name.

We called it "S K Y N E T!!!!!"

Erm, we in the UK have nukes on subs, SKYNET would isssue the communications?

Video's of Skynet's lauch are on bbc.co.uk right now.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player....b&mp=wm

DOH DOH DOH DOH..........

Which either means, someone in the UK military has a amazing sense of humour, OR some idiot in the UK goverment said its a network in the sky, call it "skynet" and no one said "your joking right have you ever seen an Arnie film?"

[JimLad 0]

I turned on Super AI and set my team mates AI to Expert, and we managed to clear out the area successfully. Two of them still bit the dust which is pretty poor for SF, but they stayed prone this time and took cover as well

[dirtylarrygb 0]

I turned on Super AI and set my team mates AI to Expert, and we managed to clear out the area successfully. Two of them still bit the dust which is pretty poor for SF, but they stayed prone this time and took cover as well

The other reason AI in Games is not invested in as much as say GFX looks etc is that many games don't need it. Driving games, FPS shooters often need clever scripting to smiulate almost human like behavuior.

Most games also now concentrate on Multiplayer, single player is there for if you can't get online. It's now the poor relation to anything MP.

Huge Multiplayer, persistant online identity and scoring, eye candy GFX and realistic physics are the things that get all the development money and commercial success in gaming.

On the consoles, that's all they are about. The PC market is full of everyone trying to copy WOW, or the next BF2 or HL2 and occasionally titles like ARMA slip through and move so many concepts forward.

[sniper pilot 36]

+ Third, the strafing tactics of the UH-60 with the 2 gatlings on each side are amazing. I had lots of fun with them, but it's a pitty that AI machinegunners don't fire back, they aim, but I'v never seen them firing.

The AI machinegunners always attack the choppers in 1.05... I should send you my test mission for you to see that...

one thing that does bother me is the fact that the UH-60 missle version and the AH-6 does not engage ground targets....

Alot of improvement over OFP but there are things that were better in OFP as well. For instance I think the driving pathfinding was great in OFP and the helicopters did not drop troops from 10 feet in the air rendering their legs useless like in ArmA.

+The AI do suppress fire though!

[AWDrift 0]

I think when in small groups the A.I. is pretty poor. Like say in SOCOM or R6 your teamates would always watch eachothers backs and you could trust them to identify and engage the enemy if they flanked you. It made it feel like you were actually part of a highly trained team and not a babysitter.

When everyone is facing the exact same direction it makes your group extremly vulnerable and selecting individual soldiers and telling which way to face leaves you vulnerable as you are unable to fire your weapon or adapt to the situation while putting in the commands.

The A.I. should automaticaly scan the area and make itself aware of it's surroundings.

[murderous 0]

I think when in small groups the A.I. is pretty poor. Like say in SOCOM or R6 your teamates would always watch eachothers backs and you could trust them to identify and engage the enemy if they flanked you. It made it feel like you were actually part of a highly trained team and not a babysitter.

When everyone is facing the exact same direction it makes your group extremly vulnerable and selecting individual soldiers and telling which way to face leaves you vulnerable as you are unable to fire your weapon or adapt to the situation while putting in the commands.

The A.I. should automaticaly scan the area and make itself aware of it's surroundings.

That is an excellent point. Default AI situational awareness should be in a 360. Only by a specific command should they ALL face the direction you are facing. Or for people who wouldn't like that approach, at least include those options.

[4 IN 1 0]

I think when in small groups the A.I. is pretty poor. Like say in SOCOM or R6 your teamates would always watch eachothers backs and you could trust them to identify and engage the enemy if they flanked you. It made it feel like you were actually part of a highly trained team and not a babysitter.

When everyone is facing the exact same direction it makes your group extremly vulnerable and selecting individual soldiers and telling which way to face leaves you vulnerable as you are unable to fire your weapon or adapt to the situation while putting in the commands.

The A.I. should automaticaly scan the area and make itself aware of it's surroundings.

That is an excellent point.  Default AI situational awareness should be in a 360.  Only by a specific command should they ALL face the direction you are facing.  Or for people who wouldn't like that approach, at least include those options.

i dont think it should be the problem of the AI, i ways have 2 of my squad mate watching me six when in formations 3 maybe if i am in towns, and they seems to do their job in most of the time, the only things is that every time when i turn i need to order they to face another direction again, and in open i simply assign them to scan horizon.

the point here i think is the fixed formation here stop you and your ai to do what they suppost to do, you cant order them to fallow your path instead of just direction, they dunno when to stay close and when to stay far, and only stays at their fixed point in their formation which unlike other games like R6 and GR

[Gloops 0]

It would be nice if there was RTFA in the formation menu. For example,  last night I was playing one of the campain missions in which you're part of a SF team taking a village with nowt but supressed weapons in broad daylight (but we won't go there). Things quickly became chaotic as I tried to individually order my section to watch multiple directions (which they stop doing as soon as you move). If there was a quick command into a hasty 180 or 360 cover formation it would make life a lot easier... and longer!

[4 IN 1 0]

well there are some games out there which is a good show case for that, like FSW(yeah not even a shooter i know but in terms of squad tactic then it really show something)

[stilpu 0]

In demo, soldiers provide 360 security for columns and delta formation, 90-180 for the others.

[dmarkwick 261]

In demo, soldiers provide 360 security for columns and delta formation, 90-180 for the others.

A good point is hidden here - that the coverage you get is dependant on the formation you have your group in. Single column should, in theory, give you 360 cover.