The Great ARMA Turkey Shoot

[l mandrake 9]

OK, I have 1.04, I absolutely love it, in fact it is, despite the bugs, the best computer game I have ever played, period.

However.... one thing is really spoiling the immersion for me. When I am a sniper and I attack a group of enemy soldiers at 500m (like at the start of the 'Seize the Base' Coop map) - I shoot the first AI, all the others lie down on the ground. I shoot some more. The survivors still lie there calmly watching their mates getting killed. I kill EVEN MORE of them. There is no panic, no rush for cover, no wild suppressing fire, nothing, just a bunch of robotic sheep awaiting slaughter....

Either BIS (I know you're busy) or any other coders out there is it possible to improve the AI's reaction to bullets flying around them and soldiers nearby getting killed? Could they figure out the rough direction of the incoming fire and seek cover from it? Would this be possible to implement (I'm guessing it's difficult or BIS would have done it?

To be honest this is the one thing for me that really 'bursts the bubble' at the moment.

[Maddmatt 1]

That was one improvement I was hoping for in ArmA before it was released. Their use of cover is actually better than in OFP, but it's not what I was hoping for.

I still think it's a great game, but the AI bugs me. In some areas they are pretty good though, like flanking and they are more reactive than in OFP.

Maybe patches will bring in slight improvements, but I guess AI isn't an easy thing to do.

[sirex 0]

/signed

[mr.g-c 6]

Well i personally think something like that isn't very hard to code.

This can be done via some scripting i think.... after the 1.05 patch released, i recommed to you to test this situation a little bit in Editor with different AI-strength. If its not getting better, then just add it to the buglist.

regards Christian

[l mandrake 9]

Yeah I will keep an eye on it - it seems to me the AI has no concept of cover, I'm sure other games have managed to implement this (R6Vegas is a good example), albeit on a much, much smaller scale....

It does indeed seem that AI is the hardest thing to get right.

[causticwindow911 0]

It's really iffy. It seems like if the AI does not spot you, it won't bother to react properly. However, in the campaign water tower mission, after I killed three guys an entire group of dudes literally rushed my position with grenades and fire. It took me off guard. It was most likely a mission specific thing, but I played it a second time and got most of them before they could react, so I dunno...

[5cent_at_NY 0]

That's what I've been thinking about. and that's the reason why I "bitcing" - ArmA is not realistic combat sim. Graphic and atmosphere is good but whole gameplay is too easy and boring.

When I put some OPFOR squads in town and I tried to ambush them from a rooftop of building, I shot their sqd lead and they just run into where I lay down fire... also, when they performing "flank" tactics, just ONE guy at each side and running into player's position without their teammate's cover fire. so it's too easy to pick them one by one.

I hope BIS will NOT beg this for the community. because this is the most hardest and important part. and that's the job of those who paid and live by this. that's why they called "professional". in fact, no one can do this "propery", because it is BIS who knows about (technical part) of this game after all.

I think IF the AI is smart enough, the whole gameplay will change. not only Singleplayer game, but MP CO-OP could be fun.

[urbanwarrior 0]

subscribed, the ai leaves a lot to be desired, especially in urban areas, the team leader sees an enemy but remains unseen himself, instead of telling 3 men to flank right or left and then bringing a few up into formation with himself before conducting his attack, he just starts shooting himself, of course every other ai soldier hits the ground and the team leader is left engaging three sentries on his own, he obviously loses and command moves to the next cpl in line, its just a bit disappointing that the ai isn't as greaat as they said it was, also they dont pepperpot like you would expect them to, especially in urban areas

[Dallas 9]

Maybe AIs could be coded into recognicing they are engaged by a sniper class weapon and if they are engaged on a range outside their visions radious +500 meters, they'd flee?

[l mandrake 9]

Yeah, either flee or determine the rough direction of the sniper and move behind cover accordingly...

[urbanwarrior 0]

they would need a new way of recognising targets, singular fire from an unknown enemy that no-one on the squad can identify should be classed as sniper and the entire squad should be given the order to find cover, but that shouldn't be the end of it, i remember ofp when you could hit the squad leader with one shot then remain silent for 2 or 3 minutes and then take another shot and the squad wouldn't move aslong as you gave them time to revert back to "safe" the AI in arma should be able to identify a sniper "type" enemy and then try and flank it before it has a chance to change position, however at the minute the AI treats every threat the same and launches the same maneouvre, everyone goes prone and then after some time a flanking move with one or two guys is used and thats it

[HamishUK 0]

Aye still some improvement needed. Best AI I have seen to date was for Far Cry. Still stupid but seemed to react a lot better to being under fire.

[l mandrake 9]

As well as immediately flanking the sniper, I want to see AI counter-snipers scanning the area of the incoming fire and trying to kill the sniper, instead of just standing there waiting to get shot!

[NeMeSiS 11]

Ok now put a group with a GUARD waypoint (in the editor), put yourself as a sniper and start shooting at them, what happens now?

EDIT: Well, dont expect a miracle, but at least they will attack you now, the engagement ranges may still be off

[urbanwarrior 0]

true, how many times have you sat in the editor shooting up an opfor squad from afar only to see the guy with the drauganov running around up and down the street like he was just a regular with no clue where the enemy is, he might aswell just have an ak74 agreed about farcry, sounds stupid but the AI covered each other whilst advancing and you could find yourself running out off space quickly as they closed in on you, in arma that would be devastating because you only need hit once but then so would they

:edit- didn't see that post above me, i will have a go at that after work

[robert(uk) 0]

AI seems to vary wildly in this game. The other day I was a sniper, picking off targets from the same spot for about 15 minutes, then suddenly I hear MG fire from right behind me, and I die! The death-cam shows an AI soldier who had flanked me, using the lay of the land to his advantage. I was very impressed.

But then, another time, I was laying in the middle of a road, shooting at some enemies in the distance, and an AI soldier ran right past me, and laid down just behind me, looking around as if he couldn't see anyone! I was like WTF?

[december 0]

I have noticed if the squad is on safe patrol and you take out the leader nothing happens,(on dedicated) the squad will continue on like nothing happened. Just keep working your way down the line.

[Scrub 0]

I've played with 1.02's AI at different levels, and when I got skill levels above 75% and shot one of the team, they scrambled, flanked (their sniper was the best at it) and returned fire from ~400m. Might simply be a hit and miss with the trapping of the event.

[urbanwarrior 0]

thye return fire allright infact they return fire and get first shot headshots at like 300yrds! you must off got lucky! i've got v1.04 and the AI will only do that if we're close, and its a pitched battle, they're flanking force will sneak up and around through the trees but at long range (sniper) they rarely try and maneouvre, you get the lot of them shooting in your direction and thats it, WHY DONT THEY USE COVER DAMMIT!

[NeMeSiS 11]

Oh and apart from the guard waypoint, i would advise people to replace the following values in their name.armaprofile file to

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE"> skillFriendly=1.000000;

skillEnemy=1.000000;

precisionFriendly=0.600000;

precisionEnemy=0.600000;

Im not sure if its MP compitable but try to give it a shot in SP, its defintly alot better IMO.  

EDIT: AI uses cover, but not at approriate times (and not often), it is very hard to do this properly because ArmA is such a slow paced game while it still takes a very short time to shoot someone (So everyone would be shot while looking for/moving to cover). Even i could let the AI seek cover all the time but then we would have people complaining about the AI seeking cover all the time instead of shooting back.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Just to point out that the FSM tools to alter AI behaviour have already been released to the community. So as a community we can already start improving this.

In Fact for Urban movement Kronzky has already started on this.

http://www.kronzky.info/ups/index.htm

Come on people remember why we realy want ArmA; for the ability do these kind of things. The other tools will come over the next few months in mean time we all need to start seeing how the millions of us who are getting ArmA can start making it do the things we want it to.

Kind Regards Walker

[urbanwarrior 0]

Oh and apart from the guard waypoint, i would advise people to replace the following values in their name.armaprofile file to

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE"> skillFriendly=1.000000;

skillEnemy=1.000000;

precisionFriendly=0.600000;

precisionEnemy=0.600000;

Im not sure if its MP compitable but try to give it a shot in SP, its defintly alot better IMO.  

EDIT: AI uses cover, but not at approriate times (and not often), it is very hard to do this properly because ArmA is such a slow paced game while it still takes a very short time to shoot someone (So everyone would be shot while looking for/moving to cover). Even i could let the AI seek cover all the time but then we would have people complaining about the AI seeking cover all the time instead of shooting back.

i get your point but the only time people would complain about AI looking for cover all the time is if it where close range and all of a sudden, then you'd just want lots of accurate fire, not 10 guys running for cover. but at extended range or with a sniper, they should always find cover first, not just lie prone in the open trying to identify the enemy that just shot at them, because they just get shot up. if they found cover then they could look for enemies without just as much risk. i'd rather lose one guy who's running for cover than 3 or 4 guys who just lay there

[5cent_at_NY 0]

for ppl who "flanked by AI and impreessed"...

Are you guys got cover propery before you sniping? if you try to shoot the AI from open field, of course you'll be flanked. or Are you guys sure that your sniping position is also good for defense when they come towards you? (do not try to attack enemy from the position like where gives AI to advantage to flank you - i.e. hollow between hills on each side.) it's like to take cover where enemy is aiming their guns and shouting "oh shit, I've pinned!" in arcade FPS...

[urbanwarrior 0]

gonna say what now?

[Maddmatt 1]

for ppl who "flanked by AI and impreessed"...

Are you guys got cover propery before you sniping? if you try to shoot the AI from open field, of course you'll be flanked. or Are you guys sure that your sniping position is also good for defense when they come towards you? (do not try to attack enemy from the position like where gives AI to advantage to flank you - i.e. hollow between hills on each side.) it's like to take cover where enemy is aiming their guns and shouting "oh shit, I've pinned!" in arcade FPS...

If they weren't taking cover properly then the AI wouldn't need to flank them, the AI would simply shoot them.