CTF and Armed Assault horrible

[DST_STRYKER 0]

First I agree with alot of the comments here.

The way I see it is, us CTF players have a hell of a challenge on our hands. Theres no doubt the camping CTF players are lapping this game up, it's been handed to them on a plate with chips and theyre all taking a bite...

Right now for me as the leader of a clan who run from cover to cover on full auto like red indians dodging bullets and howling it puts a hell of an obstacle in our way.

ArmA anims are such alot slower than OFP, and theres 2 ways around that for us. The easy but impractical way is to develop or adopt some kind of smoother/faster anim mod for league games, which would make public games tough. The second option is to adapt ourselves and not the game, and get stuck into learning a more patient way of playing for CTF.

I sure know alot of the old and some of the best players from OFP have come into ArmA, played it, and won't come back... and that includes a few guys from my own team. But to be honest I dont think any other game out to date comes close to the OFP/ArmA style, so ultimately this is the game we should be investing our time in.

ArmA has alot of potential

Stryker

[cain2001 0]

ECL map use 40s respawn time and a greater distance from spawn to base, this makes it possible for more flagruns to be made. They also made the gaming time to 40 minutes rather than 30 min in standard games.

Alot can be said here, as for public play its everyman for himself and his way of gaming. For Clanwars different leagues will be availble.

[walker 0]

Hi all

I think AUS_Twisted hit the nail on the head.

This thread is not about ArmA not working for CTF. ArmA is in fact working fine for CTF, witness how much fun I and the 100s of other more professional and cerebral real CTF players currently playing ArmA are having.

We are talking about some specific missions for people who like lots of flag runs. So they need missions with adjustments to allow that kind of game play. It is just down to those people making such mission scenarios in the editor as suit their style of play.

I personally prefer more of the thought out game play you get for real CTF; with out those play in the box type games, other than for a mad half hour.

If you are a real CTF player you play the big battle type CTF where tactics and choice of ground and weapons suitable for that bit of ground and coms and team play become important. ArmA is not the limited number of weapon style of play you see in Soldner Counter Strike and the other Unreal Engine. It would be odd to drag ArmA down to that old style of technology.

There appear to be a lot of people making comments here who do not even have the game or have never even run the editor to make their own games to suit their own style of play.

I personally do not play that kind of style of CTF very often. I remeber it from the 90s with the Duke Nuke Em and Doom Quake days but things have moved on Players want more nowadays. So I probably wont be bothered to make that kind of mission. I do not know what kind of demand there is for that style of CTF.

You will never see the style of CTF you want unless you make the mission to suit your style. If you really think there is a demand for this style of CTF then you need to make the missions of that type and see if people really want to play them.

Kind Regards walker

[Platoon_Patton 0]

ECL map use 40s respawn time and a greater distance from spawn to base, this makes it possible for more flagruns to be made. They also made the gaming time to 40 minutes rather than 30 min in standard games.

Not correct;

ECL uses a dynamic respawntime,the more players the longer the respawntime.Also 40 minutes gameplay was used in the Combi maps,a mixture of CTF with C&H,they have the advantage of adding 1 extra point of intrest on the map,so non flagrunners who moved up to the enemy spawn/flagarea have to fall back to Midflag instead.

Oh and the most tense games I ever played ended 1-1 on flagcaps,the winner was decided by the Midflagscore and nobody in the team was sure about the endscore untill the enddialog showed the winner.

I am with Stryker,ArmA is ArmA.

Remember the addagio:Improvise, Adapt and Overcome

[lwlooz 0]

I know this is completly futile , but are you guys are aware that the animation-system is completly not hardcoded into the game?

I would not bet on it and I am leaning out of the window here , but it might be even possible to get OFP-kinda anims working for the new models somewhat , they won't look as pretty tho.

Disclaimer: I am not a anims-maker,so take above with a grain of salt.Still it is very editable

[PlayeR87 0]

ctf is a brilliant game mode and i can see nothing wrong with it perhaps its the people who are complaining that are flawed? :P

[Luciano 0]

Quote[/b] ]ArmA anims are such alot slower than OFP, and theres 2 ways around that for us. The easy but impractical way is to develop or adopt some kind of smoother/faster anim mod for league games, which would make public games tough. The second option is to adapt ourselves and not the game, and get stuck into learning a more patient way of playing for CTF.

Or third option which is not to play at all. That's the way I'm going

I'm pretty sure the movement is hardcoded. In most games it is anyway.

[whisper 0]

Quote[/b] ]Maybe in Unreal Tournament or Soldier of Fortune 2, scores like that are almost impossible in a game like OFP or ArmA. If one side is bound to win, they either do it 2-1 or 5-0 because you can't just grab a flag and run away with it as a fragile soldier and teams are rarely so equal that they kick each others' asses in turns.

I had scores like that and I know many people who did. A lot of clanplayers had scores like that back in the day. It seems you were just a lonewolf player who never played in tournaments with good clans.

Says the guy to a MCY member

Quote[/b] ]I'm out of this thread. When you can find only few populated servers in ARMA, think of what I said.

Doomsayer knows-it-all striking again. I wonder how you could talk that long to peons like ourselves

[walker 0]

Or third option which is not to play at all.  That's the way I'm going  

I'm pretty sure the movement is hardcoded.  In most games it is anyway.

Hi all

Luciano you have already said you do not have the game and that you are CS unreal Fan-boy so how can you possibly give up a game you have never bought?

Your complete lack of knowledge of both OFP and ArmA modding is evident to one and all so making false pronouncements on a game engine you have never modded tends to make you perhaps look a little foolish.

If you really think the CTF style game play you like and that is becoming extinct with the decline in CS can be rescued by moving it to a more modern game such as ArmA then you need to buy the game and fire up the mission editor and make those style of missions; just like original CS guys did.

Kind Regards walker

[whisper 0]

Quote[/b] ]ArmA anims are such alot slower than OFP, and theres 2 ways around that for us. The easy but impractical way is to develop or adopt some kind of smoother/faster anim mod for league games, which would make public games tough. The second option is to adapt ourselves and not the game, and get stuck into learning a more patient way of playing for CTF.

Or third option which is not to play at all. That's the way I'm going

I'm pretty sure the movement is hardcoded. In most games it is anyway.

Wrong. Animation description is part of any addons and unit description and 3D files. Same for animation transitions. How do you expect OFP addon units to adapt to the new weapons they are holding, or jump on tanks like RHS crew did, etc?

[=jps=sgtrock 4]

Removing the return flag action is very hard if not impossible, of course I'd be intrigued to try a different approach. But CTF is still CTF, and the best team gets the most flags to win. There shouldn't be downright handicaps to allow a victory based on more luck than already is involved.

I didn't know that. Maybe use a different object then?

Quote[/b] ]There is CTF in this "military sim" because it's a game mode like all others, and no other game compares to the gameplay of OFP and ArmA. So people want to play an unrealistic game mode in a realistic setting, in contrast to BF2 being based on C&H (for argument's sake let's call it realistic). They do CTF in military trainings to perfect a team's cohesion and tactics.

Yep. I played CTF (among other games) when I was in boot camp. I suppose I should mention that I was a squid, not a grunt, though.

I've also been playing CTF in all kinds of games since Threewave first released the mod for QuakeWorld, so I flatter myself that I know a bit about what works and what doesn't for this particular game type. Well, I know what works for me.

I guess games like Football/Soccer are broken then with such low scores, I wonder why the game even exists

Some CTF games can be like this depending on the teams and map/mission with very low scores which is what makes it so special like Football/Soccer when your team wins because it's very challenging.

Soccer??? Meh. Over the past few decades the rules changes have devolved it into the single most boring game on the planet. Me, I've always preferred hockey. You will actually see more scoring than the usual snore fest that you get with soccer. Even with the slower pace when it's played on a Olympic rink.

Back on topic. I still contend that if CTF is played as essentially TDM in tournament play, then it's broken. If scores are consistently counted in binary, then IMO it's broken badly. It's definitely time to re-think the mod in that case.

Ah well. If I'm right, some decent coder will come up with an alternative that works. If I'm wrong, then I'll be playing another type of game. God, I love the moddability of OpFlash and ArmA!

[Luciano 0]

Quote[/b] ]Hi all

Luciano you have already said you do not have the game and that you are CS unreal Fan-boy so how can you possibly give up a game you have never bought?

Where have I said that? I have the game and it blows big time. Why else would I come to these forums if I didn't have the game?

[aus_twisted 0]

Well it doesn't matter what game your playing CTF in, if your defensive team is good enough you can make it very very hard for the other team to score. But just like in a lot of sports you need to balance your offense and defensive sides.

The same tactic also applies to MFCTI and CRCTI etc.

[Frantic 0]

Hi all!

Im one of those mission makers, who decided to creat his own CTF maps in ArmA.

We played already some friendly clan wars on some CQB CTFs and it was a real rumble. Both sides were able to score flags.

The fight went the whole time up and down for my team and you needed real teamplay to got the chance of touching a flag.

For those who are totally unhappy with the movements of ArmA:

i liked the old OFP style too, but it was always more a gameplay like headless chicken running around and i remember that we hated the campers back in OFP too.

Now in ArmA i just see that its nolonger sooo easy to sprint, stop and shoot...but i think thats more realistic, try to sprint and shoot one bullet in the head of a guy 30meters away...can be only luck if u hit!

You need to think of your ways and where u can sprint instead of walking.

CTFs in ArmA are now way more teamplay based...without cover and backup you rarely will get a flag.

Im already used to the ArmA movements and i did already some nice scores on maps like over 50 kills and sometimes it happens that i see more than 2 enemies in front of me and i shoot them all with one magazine, so i rarely see ur probs.

I just think that you guys need more practice and you need some improvements of your teamplay to be able to own in ArmA!

with best wishes

Frantic

[Mora2 0]

Now in ArmA i just see that its nolonger sooo easy to sprint, stop and shoot...but i think thats more realistic, try to sprint and shoot one bullet in the head of a guy 30meters away...can be only luck if u hit!  

Yeah??

Well you know what it isnt also realistic??

To grab a flag while shooting to death.

There has to be a mix between realism and fun, and Arma has gone too much through that spoiling all the fun.

There is nothing worng in playin Swat style at some moments.

[celery 8]

Well you know what it isnt also realistic??

To grab a flag while shooting to death.

The game modes are totally irrelevant. Like I've said before, Armed Assault is what it is and it's a foundation for different game modes, not the other way around. If you want a non-realistic game mode with unrealistic gameplay, there are lots of games for that. ArmA is the pioneer of its genre and we should adapt to it.

[Mora2 0]

Well you know what it isnt also realistic??

To grab a flag while shooting to death.

The game modes are totally irrelevant. Like I've said before, Armed Assault is what it is and it's a foundation for different game modes, not the other way around. If you want a non-realistic game mode with unrealistic gameplay, there are lots of games for that. ArmA is the pioneer of its genre and we should adapt to it.

You are saying it, and contradicting yourself.

Mix between game modes... well that shoulkd also include a mix between different type of games and right know swat type style of combat is near impossible. ( and swat type style is realistic in the correct situation )

In fact majority of people directly go for the no aim method cause if they zoom in they´re dead.

[celery 8]

Well you know what it isnt also realistic??

To grab a flag while shooting to death.

The game modes are totally irrelevant. Like I've said before, Armed Assault is what it is and it's a foundation for different game modes, not the other way around. If you want a non-realistic game mode with unrealistic gameplay, there are lots of games for that. ArmA is the pioneer of its genre and we should adapt to it.

You are saying it, and contradicting yourself.

Mix between game modes... well that shoulkd also include a mix between different type of games and right know swat type style of combat is near impossible. ( and swat type style is realistic in the correct situation )

In fact majority of people directly go for the no aim method cause if they zoom in they´re dead.

How am I contradicting? My message is that CTF is only a game mode like all others and if you want to play CTF in a game like ArmA, you should be comfortable with the game itself and not demand changes at the expense of all others.

Capture the Flag is no more and no less than having two teams taking each others' flags, no matter the game you are playing it on.

[whisper 0]

Well you know what it isnt also realistic??

To grab a flag while shooting to death.

The game modes are totally irrelevant. Like I've said before, Armed Assault is what it is and it's a foundation for different game modes, not the other way around. If you want a non-realistic game mode with unrealistic gameplay, there are lots of games for that. ArmA is the pioneer of its genre and we should adapt to it.

You are saying it, and contradicting yourself.

Mix between game modes... well that shoulkd also include a mix between different type of games and right know swat type style of combat is near impossible. ( and swat type style is realistic in the correct situation )

In fact majority of people directly go for the no aim method cause if they zoom in they´re dead.

Wait wait wait.... how come they are dead if they zoom. How in hell could the ennemy shoot them? Knowing the ennemy is ofc bound to the same limitations (what you feel is too imprecise aiming system). By what magic could 1 guy hit his opponent when said opponent can't aim at him because "his scope wobbles too much"?

[MugHug 0]

Having run two OFP squads with one entering the War Games CTF ladder and winning first time, I cannot accept your view as based on a valid and balanced argument.

ArmA offers exactly the same advantages and disadvantages as OFP and CTF at it's best was always team-work and good communication. My squad member have found that exactly the same tactics work in ArmA as OFP.

I can still take the flag single-handed at times, but other times I cannot. Cannot expect to carry out the equivalent of taking a flag down from a pole in a hot-combat zone and not expect to be fired upon at if any defenders are near.

We accept that a flag defended needs teamwork. Some to draw out and deal with the defenders and others to take the flag..

Even when we defend we have at least two members hided away making it very difficult to take the flag. The better players work as a team to deal with us or the single player first works on us before the flag. Sounds like common sense.

Maybe a re-evaluation of skills and tactics by you and your friends are in need.

To blame ArmA does a dis-service to BIS who have delivered one of the best tactical combat simulations available to the general public up to date. Like everything it is not perfect, but as nothing can stand-up and compare to it's scope and versatility, put your blame elsewhere.

NOTE: Have any of those players that support the original poster's views ever considered that just like in real combat you need to secure an area before doing things like taking flags down.

That sounds like a no-brainer considering it is advertised by BIS as 'the most realistic warfare experience ever seen on a computer'

Go back to your arcade games, if you cannot handle ArmA.

Regards,

MugHug [M.H.M]