New Gang In Town To Clean Up Campers!

[Rofflecopter 0]

I'm an old OFP player/fan but new to MP gaming in with Arma(demo) and I'm not really sure what constitutes 'camping.'

Obviously I understand "spawnkilling" but as regards to the flag. When I see multiple enemies on radar close to my HQ, is it wrong to set up position on the flag?

Camping your own HQ is not camping it's defending.

It's a real pain when everytime you spawn at your main base, it's instant death. I had this happen the other day when on a CTI clan server, the clan was just sat wiping you out everytime you spawned you couldn't even get to cover.

[Heatseeker 0]

As for the whole what is wrong with camping if it is effective and plausible thing...

Anybody that doesn`t think camping is lame has a very distorted view on the nature of PvP MP. For nearly anyone playing PvP MP games they aren`t about reinactment of Dieppe Raid nor of the Iranian Embassy Siege. They are not about playing soldier and mimicking real life millitary operations. And they are definetley not a polygon for development of millitary tactics for real life. What they are to a huge overwhelming majority of players is an entertainment, a recreation or a sport.

Now in many sport there are tactics that while don`t represent cheating are lame and unsportive. In football one of those is called a proffesional foul (intentionaly fouling an opponent in a goalscoring opportunity). Now proffesional foul isn`t cheating since the player isn`t trying to hide it, plus (since the 1980s) he will be cauntioned or a sent off for it and jet it is considered extremley lame and very unsportive. And this is on proffesional level. It is so lame it is absolutley untinkable of anybody intentionaly fouling in a pastime game of football.

It is the same with camping in PvP. It isn`t cheating but it definetly also isn`t sportive. There is definetley something wrong with exploiting the mission in such a cynical way that it kills all the fun for every other participant. Esspecialy so when it is done just so you boost your kill count which isn`t even the objective of the game (at least proffesional fouling is done for the scoreline and not for own perverse pleasure). And finally it isn`t even hard. It takes no special skills. Any moron can find a good camping spot and proceed to rack up the kills killing all the fun for every other player. Its just that mayority of us aren`t assholes and like to play in accordance to the spirit as well as the rules of the game.

Ok, there we go...

There is no camping in Arma/OPF. There is the turkey shooter and the turkey.

Sometimes you are one, sometimes the other. If you end up being the turkey too often you have to re-evaluate your play style (adapt) or create better maps, if you cant do that you resort to the nonsense that ended up in this degrading thread.

Did you notice that there are smoke grenades in Arma/OPF? Ever thought about using them instead of filling up with G36 mags?

These idiotic rules and behaviours are why many people (usually ones who dont have the patience anymore) switch to coop or close themselves with a regular group (wich is unfortunate and hurts the mp gaming comunity).

Look at these embarassing arguments:

"Its just that mayority of us aren`t assholes and like to play in accordance to the spirit as well as the rules of the game."

You see yourself highly enough to have the right to establish THE game rules? And anyone who doesnt abide by your "rules" is a camping asshole...

Arma is not a soccer game, its a slower paced FPS with considerable realistic and tactical gameplay, AKA the thinking mans shooter.

Think about that... and think about the poor image that you give about the adversarial Arma players out there too.

[celery 8]

Arma is not a soccer game, its a slower paced FPS with considerable realistic and tactical gameplay, AKA the thinking mans shooter.

I think you are forgetting that the PvP community does not play for the higher goals of getting the ultimate military sim experience or whatever the more mature co-oppers get out of their games. They want a fun and fair challenge that measures their individual and team skills against another team, the thrill of 'who is better'. Before you say "go play CS or soccer" or similar, the ArmA PvP community wants to have fun in a realistic setting, that's why they play it.

These idiotic rules and behaviours are why many people (usually ones who dont have the patience anymore) switch to coop or close themselves with a regular group (wich is unfortunate and hurts the mp gaming comunity).

You got a source for that, or is it just a "funny fact" to boost your cause?

You see yourself highly enough to have the right to establish THE game rules? And anyone who doesnt abide by your "rules" is a camping asshole...

Zerg is but a messenger, what he said are things that every competitive player knows deep down. I could mirror this to you, do you see yourself so holier than others that you know what is accepted in a fair match better than the ones who play CTF full time?

Did you notice that there are smoke grenades in Arma/OPF? Ever thought about using them instead of filling up with G36 mags?

You are welcome to come and play a CTF and throw smokes around and frolic in your tactical screen, I'm sure your (this time human) enemies will appreciate your smart move and play along.

Think about that... and think about the poor image that you give about the adversarial Arma players out there too.

Think about what kind of image you yourself are giving, this is a thread mainly for CTF players to discuss and before you know there are some co-oppers giving advice how you play CTF in a "military sim".

[Heatseeker 0]

The game modes are totally irrelevant. Like I've said before, Armed Assault is what it is and it's a foundation for different game modes, not the other way around. If you want a non-realistic game mode with unrealistic gameplay, there are lots of games for that. ArmA is the pioneer of its genre and we should adapt to it.

You confuse me .

[celery 8]

The game modes are totally irrelevant. Like I've said before, Armed Assault is what it is and it's a foundation for different game modes, not the other way around. If you want a non-realistic game mode with unrealistic gameplay, there are lots of games for that. ArmA is the pioneer of its genre and we should adapt to it.

You confuse me .

What is the confusion? I don't want drastic changes in the game just to please CTF noobs.

Ps. With that quote from another topic you oh so skilfully dodged my actual reply to you in this thread.

[richard_dean_anderson 0]

...that will let us play the way the game is meant to be played. Namely a proper CTI.

It's funny how you co-oppers and CTI players feel so much above the rest just because you kill mindless bots and buy tanks and choppers.

Richard Dean Anderson is hardly a representative of CTI players.

But yes I noticed this snobbery you mention in alot of co-oppers myself. Infact one example just very recently.

Actually, I don't enjoy killing mindless bots. I'd much rather kill humans. But, if I wanted to play a game where I'm restricted to a small portion of the map, and don't have to worry much about dying since I can repeatedly respawn and get right back in the game, I'd seriously play battlefield 2. BF2 does that kind of game so much better than OFP/Arma, hands down.

[russin 0]

those mindless BOTS will kick your ass in ArmA

ArmA anything is possable can't be compared to BF2 at all ArmA is 100 times better in any regard to BF2 even in those shoe box maps

[Zerg 0]

Did you notice that there are smoke grenades in Arma/OPF? Ever thought about using them instead of filling up with G36 mags?

Ah yes the mighty smoke grenades. They certainly do come in handy when you want your beach party to get that cheery psychedelic flavor, but I stil much prefer to pack a Carl Gustav instead just in case I happen to cross paths with the odd T-80 or five.

But not to say I am not open minded, I would be most interested in learning of ways to dispose of a tank with smoke grenades.

Its just that mayority of us aren`t assholes and like to play in accordance to the spirit as well as the rules of the game.

You see yourself highly enough to have the right to establish THE game rules? And anyone who doesnt abide by your "rules" is a camping asshole...

Quite the opposite. If you cared to read what I acctually wrote instead of raging against constructs of your imagination you would see I acctually implied that camping isn`t against the rules of the game, but is against the spirit of the game. Of course reading what I acctually write would require you get off your tacticaly sound high horse and that might be too much to ask of you.

And yes I think little of people that play unsportive and make little secret of it both in game and outside of it.

Think about that... and think about the poor image that you give about the adversarial Arma players out there too.

Think about not patronising people you know next to nothing about. It does little to dispend with the snobbish image.

Sometimes you are one, sometimes the other. If you end up being the turkey too often you have to re-evaluate your play style (adapt) or create better maps, if you cant do that you resort to the nonsense that ended up in this degrading thread.

Since you find it appropriate to throw tactical advice left and right giving as detailed instructions as the loadouts setup and in not a hugely respectful manner, then proceed to dispel considerations of other players as stupid, idiotic or emberassing I would be interested in hearing the reason for your confidence. I mean the way you talk you must have played at least several dozen PvP MP matches right? Probably also won a few competitions, yes? And spent countless hours measuring skill in public games against other players?

Anybody that ambushes my ride on the road approaching the town will have my compliments. Anybody that picks me off from a distance with a sniper rifle from the outskirts of the town after waiting calmly for dozens of minutes will have my congratulations. Anybody that sets up his AIs to have me caught in fire from all sides the moment I enter a town will have my admiration. But anybody that sets himself up in a building with a tiny window then proceeds to set himself in position from which he can see absolutley nothing but the town flag and a few metres surronding it then wait for the opposition knowing they must come to it and stand next to it for 20 seconds in order to take the town is a camper, is playing unsportive and is exploiting the limitation of the mission to simulate town control which is a fairly abstract term in itself better. And no it is not a case of a poor mission making, any other abstraction is going to be even more exploitable.

[Frantic 0]

Here my 2cents to that Bad Company thing.

I love the WarOnCampers movie, still have it on my harddrive.

I hated the campers too in the past in my early OFP days.

But now i just respect them, cause i never managed to lay on my belly 30mins without moving...its just too boring for me.

I only did the job of the flagcamper in league matches on maps i dont like and i wasnt even good in it.

Cain i can just tell you that your not alone, there are enough knights out there who are trying to give the constant campers the most hard time they can have.

I know the maps i created till now are mainly CQB style and its funny to see all the heads peaking out of corners, but its even more fun to shoot this heads or throw a nade at them.

Its always nice to shoot a camper...so im not angry on them, cause they are easy targets, not moving at all.

Only one more thing about this strange opinion with the respawn protection.

I was the mapmaker of TNT at the end and i have removed those nonsense prison scripts at the maps, cause i always havent understood why the mapmakers havent spend more time to create another way of respawn protection, like to use the terrain or objects.

The only thing you need to have a nice working respawn protection is a no entry area and no chance for the enemy to see at ur spawn and ammo crates.

I did that at all my CTF maps now too and till now i just see every day some peeps who are screaming: "u shot me at respawn!" and then i always have to explain them that the signs 20meter away from their spawn are markers to show the others the beginning of the no entry area and that your allowed to shoot everyone you see.

I think thats a better way instead of those prison scripts, cause we wanna stay at realism or? hehe

but back on topic:

camping was a part of OFP and it is one of ArmA, we cant change that, i have to admit that i camp too from time to time when i reach a nice spot.

I cant understand peeps playing CTF when they never try to take a flag.

To grab a flag and trying to bring it home is the most thrilling thing u can get in online gaming...ok its better in a clan war instead of public, but its still nice to even make a flag run in a public game.

Those campers who just stay at one point are just useful for covering one certain area, but they never will decide a round.

The headless chickens are the pepper in the soup.

A camper will shoot the chicken once or even twice but if hes spotted once his time has come to die.

The most funny campers are the belly boys on Hexenkessel, i have to admit that i sometimes friendly kill those campers if i see them laying all the time at one spot...i know its not nice, but i always say: SORRY!

Ej Cain im looking forward to a new nice WarOnCampers movie!

Fast path shooters are enough left of OFP in ArmA!

[whisper 0]

Frantic is spot on.

Concentrate on objectives, and you'll have a delightful game. I really, really don't mind a camper getting me few times, if it's all that he does 1) he doesn't really stop me from reaching my goal in the end, 2) he doesn't bring anything to his team.

He may well be at the top of the kill list, that doesn't mean he helped in any way.

After that, it's all about game design. If it is done nicely, the objectives shouldn't be "campable" ad vitam eternam. Ie spawn protected by physical features, houses, etc..., and objectives with more or less protected paths.

[--DST-- HIGHLANDER 0]

emm, i hate campers myself,always have always will, but in ARMA the campers seem to be like ai bots, you know who you are , i.e example last night a camper on a tower in his own spawn killed me 3 times in a row,soon i figured out where he was, he had no where to run to, he got killed, lol, what he do again, he go back on tower, and i killed him again! , its this kind of stupid players, i cant understand why they play ARMA ctf??, i mean camping in spawn with a sniper rifle, aint gonna get you any flags is it, personnlay , i would rather get killed my a simmilar styler of player to me, i.e get killed when all out attacking flag, than some noob corner/leaning on a building all game, thats not skill, is it?, its more skillfull to kill an oponnet when both are attacking each others flag in open see each other same time, see who wins the dual? am i right?

[S.O.S 0]

Ofcourse ill spare normal campers (unless they turn out to be pro campers)

LMFAO

HIGHLANDER @ Feb. 22 2007,17:14)]he got killed, lol, what he do again, he go back on tower, and i killed him again! , its this kind of stupid players, i cant understand why they play ARMA ctf??, i mean camping in spawn with a sniper rifle, aint gonna get you any flags is it, ...

Because they just play for fun, he wouldnt play it if it would be no fun. Some of the old veterans seem to have forgotten this.

[frelli 0]

Mind post you "War on campers" video?

[Evan110185 0]

Once I went camping up north and then some coyotes and bears roamed around our tent all night. And they came up very close to our camp site. The 3 girls i went with got pretty scared.

Just thought id share...

{MOD}Audi_A4

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Campers rely on poor mission design, or the success of the mission requires it (ie those few seconds required to hold a base in CTI)

[Infam0us 10]

Imho there is nothing wrong with camping. Its a tactic that can be used like any other. I do disagree with Spawn Campers though, as people who are shot, or not given a fair chance to get out of spawn might aswell not play the game. However, if a player is stupid enough to camp in the same place after being killed then he deserved to die. But does waiting behind some bushes for a enemy count as camping?

[sirex 0]

this is dumb on all kinds of levels. - this is a realistic game, real solders camp when needed, and for good reason.

deal with it.

[cain2001 0]

this is dumb on all kinds of levels. - this is a realistic game, real solders camp when needed, and for good reason.

deal with it.

To this Thread guys!

Dont let the door hit you on the way out!

[frelli 0]

Mind post you "War on campers" video?

Please?

[sirex 0]

..has to be said though, in every game i've played as soon as anyone stops running head long into the other team in a mindless fashion and sets up any type of defence someone pulls out the camper card.

its just a tactic, obviously not one that mr.rambo would use, but thats why mr.rambo would get shot outside of hollywood.

i mean, if you know someone is camping an alley and everytime you cross it they shoot you, dont cross it. They only camp cos some sucker keeps making it viable.

[celery 8]

..has to be said though, in every game i've played as soon as anyone stops running head long into the other team in a mindless fashion and sets up any type of defence someone pulls out the camper card.

its just a tactic, obviously not one that mr.rambo would use, but thats why mr.rambo would get shot outside of hollywood.

i mean, if you know someone is camping an alley and everytime you cross it they shoot you, dont cross it. They only camp cos some sucker keeps making it viable.

The camping we are talking about in this thread is not the number two option of "hey let's sprint to the flag thru the main road with no cover!". This Camping we talk about is purely self gratified frag count boosting with no contribution to the objectives of the game. Does the verb 'camp' somehow automatically wind single players into a rage?

And just so you know, J. Rambo was very tactical in the movies and always tried to avoid and surprise the enemy.

[Zerg 0]

Anybody that disses Rambo didn`t read First Blood.

[richard_dean_anderson 0]

Doesn't killing a lot of people contribute to the objective of a CTF mission?

[sirex 0]

apparently not.

[svendejong 0]

Im kinda surprised to find this topic on the ARMA /OFP forums.

People complaining about being camped during games on the Zeus server and before that good oll SToners server were told to go play CS and thats exactly what I feel like saying here.

camping=making smart use of concealment and cover, making it an acceptable and even smart thing to do in a tactical, slow paced game.