terrain damage

[dentist guba 0]

would it be possible to make code which allows explosions e.t.c to leave simple, 3D craters in the ground. i recently played red faction again and this made me wonder, how come no game since has allowed this since(as far as i know). i think we should discuss the possibility of using a similar system in ARMA.

even on the old PS2 there was no real lag caused by this but i am not sure about ARMA. this would add an extra dimension to the gameplay (e.g it could allow builsing of trenches).

[deanosbeano 0]

all these ideas are possible.

there is one major factor why none of these are implimented in large scale /world sim such as arma and ofp tho.

its only doable on a small scale island in a small world scenario and

for this there are some real good games out there that have tears of development in this field.

so in essence its either or

large scale with no deformable terrain

or smallscale with deformable terrain.

with the exception being localised deformable terrain in a large sacle world . thats how i would play it if i took on such a concept

.

but i would get kicked to fook by the 100% must be everything or nothing boys . so i aint gettin involved

[nephilim 0]

well those impact craters left behind from missiles etc.

are 3d objects...

you can change them.....

you cant deform the terrain dynamically tho

at least i havent heard about it yet in arma/ofp

[dentist guba 0]

maybe you could make it semi-dynamic e.g maybe make it similar to building damage in OFP.

[deanosbeano 0]

good luck in your employment nehpilim.

btw this is in your sig .

Quote[/b] ]why do people try to compensate their insufficient length of their genitals by posting their pc specs in their signature???

when you are employed and you go to crytek forums to answer questions of the people . you will say thank god this guy posted his spec in his sig , now i can eliminate his hardware from the diagnosis .

i dont know how you linked it to such a thing as manhood size before realising the benefits to the devs of such information on a forum .

[fasad 1]

It is easy enough to add a crater model on top of the terrain, but the terrain itself is fixed. Given the ArmA terrain is defined by points 20m apart (with additional detail points interpolated using a noise equation) the smallest crater you could create is 40m in diameter.

I seem to remember reading the next engine will feature deformable terrain.

[dentist guba 0]

1:

Quote[/b] ]well those impact craters left behind from missiles etc.

are 3d objects...

you can change them.....

do they affect vehicle performance ?(e.g. will cars go slower over craters in roads)

2:

Quote[/b] ]I seem to remember reading the next engine will feature deformable terrain.

maybe it will be added to the ARMA engine in a patch/upgrade(although it would be far into the future).

[nephilim 0]

well if you´d add a roadway lod they need to drive over it.

it wont make them THAT slower but it will be an obstacle

@deanosbeano

never heard of the "my thing is better than your thing" line...

think about it..

people can still post their specs if theyre asked for it...

offtopic out---

[charonos 0]

Quote[/b] ]do they affect vehicle performance ?(e.g. will cars go slower over craters in roads)

If there is something on the road that has a valid geometry LOD, the vehicles will try to go around it.

Not sure if a roadway LOD will change that (cause it's not adhered to the road like a bridge),it needs to be tested.

Especially since the ArmA vehicle AI is worse than in OFP in regards to vehicles staying on the road. They sometimes leave the roads for no obvious reason.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

no game since has allowed this since(as far as i know).

MechWarrior 3 had "craterable" terrain that did create small depressions whenever rockets or something rather explosive hit a certain area on the ground. Of course, this was only meaningful in the Gold edition, as in the expansion "Pirate's Moon", one was able to use the elemental powersuits, which were already small, and also could be made to crouch a bit...

And I wouldn't call MW3's maps small.

[Vulture2k1 0]

I never thought that i would say anything positive about soldner anymore. But Soldner had enormous large "maps" (it was one, which was streaming) with part for part destructive buildings and you could go in all of that buildings (I loved hunting enemies with a bradley in woodhouses). And even destroying whole cities in soldner produced no additional lag.

And you could make craters in the landscape with nearly every larger explosive device.

[jono_retard 0]

I am interested into how BIA are going to make it possible. On there website it says there will be dynamically destructible terrain and if my knowledge serves me well vbs's maps are just as big if not bigger that ofp so I would assume that would be the case with vbs2. Hope you understand

Chump

[dentist guba 0]

Quote[/b] ]well if you´d add a roadway lod they need to drive over it.

it wont make them THAT slower but it will be an obstacle

i suppose they could be edited so that they have a greater effect(and maybe stay there longer-not sure how long they take to disappear). you could then, for example, bomb the enemy's runway in CTI to stop planes taking off for a while. this would do for now. another related thing-is trench building e.t.c possible in CTI when building a base.

[nephilim 0]

@jono_retard

where does it say so?

vbs2 mentiones destructable buildings not terrain...

http://vbs2.com/site/features.html#docs

[fasad 1]

Quote[/b] ]

Beyond VBS2 – VBS2 Virtual Tool Kit

Bohemia Interactive will soon commence development of the Virtual Tool Kit (VTK), a project designed to allow the end user to modify every aspect of the simulation. As most users of serious games have already experienced, it can be difficult if not impossible to effect a change in a simulation engine without either a great deal of time or financial investment. Bohemia Interactive intends to reverse this model through providing a range of editors that will enable every aspect of the simulation to be easily modified and configured; to the extent that the product could be repackaged by any typical user to suit a new training requirement or demand.

To be sponsored by the USMC, the VBS2 VTK provides configuration, weapon and unit editors, improved (easier to use and more functional) terrain and modelling tools, easily modifiable artificial intelligence behaviours, an API for ‘plugging-in’ new AI models, deformable terrain and a range of other improvements beyond the extensive enhancements already available in VBS2. Bohemia Interactive intends for VBS2 VTK to provide the benchmark for the serious games industry; a completely modifiable, low-cost and customer-oriented product suitable for any conceivable use (be it military training or otherwise).

This could be read as the ability deform terrain in a creation tool, rather than in game using explosives. I really can't imagine the military would be interested in such a hollywood style effect...

"VBS2 Press release"

[nephilim 0]

hm fogot about that one.

oh well.. i guess the public will never know

[wipman 1]

Hi, i'll not call the hability of a graphic engine "a hollywood thing", i think that it'll add more realism to the areas of operations; imagine a Nam based mod for example. Is not the same to advance or fight by a nice and plain poppies field... than by an area that has been bombarded by a formation of B52's, that left craters of between 3 & 12m deep; a tank will not do do a so big terain deformation, but the soil will not be te same afther the clash of 2 tanks divisions for sure. Add something like destroy the soil, trees, be able of make craters in the soil, burn fields, woods or trees is almost impossible for the ArmA engine without make it lag 5 more times.

The only way that i can think about do a deformable terrain... is to do small craters with a islands editor and fill 'em with a object that be walkable and that when it be destroyed, it swaps to a crater (also walkable) object that refills the space with a crater that grows in relation to the place done for itself.

For the trees... change the tree models by "static" models that once that take a certain dammage number, explode with a white smoke cloud lefting the in the downside, half of the tree or 1/3 of the tree in the gound and that "spawns" the fallen part of it, in the soil facing to "X" direction. This could also be done with woods as a object as a kind of carpet. But... the tanks could not walk over the remains of the trees... and it'll only serve for simulate trees that a tank or artillery has fired to; not trees that a tank has destroyed walking over 'em.

For simulate burnable fields, woods or whatever vegetation... do a "Big Fire" script that affects an area, and whatever that should burn... do it with many dammage models with they'r respective dammage textures; and when it goes taking dammage... it swaps from LOD to LOD (LOD =Level Of Detail), for example: Dammage 0.9 = dammaged 1 LOD, Dammage 0.8 = other different LOD (more burned) and in that way until left the place as the moon surface. Calculate yourself the impact of something like this in the performance of your computer. Let's C ya

[Metal Heart 0]

I never thought that i would say anything positive about soldner anymore. But Soldner had enormous large "maps" (it was one, which was streaming) with part for part destructive buildings and you could go in all of that buildings (I loved hunting enemies with a bradley in woodhouses). And even destroying whole cities in soldner produced no additional lag.

Wrong. The destruction adds a lot of "lag" in online games, you can only have around 40 players on a good server.

Delete the destruction system or disable it and you can run with more then 64 players on a map.

In the past we did a test with 134 players succes on fastlane with ADS disabled.

[Vulture2k1 0]

I never thought that i would say anything positive about soldner anymore. But Soldner had enormous large "maps" (it was one, which was streaming) with part for part destructive buildings and you could go in all of that buildings (I loved hunting enemies with a bradley in woodhouses). And even destroying whole cities in soldner produced no additional lag.

Wrong. The destruction adds a lot of "lag" in online games, you can only have around 40 players on a good server.

Thats not the destruction, we have destroyed whole landscapes not increasing the lag.

Soldner was always lagging like hell. S**t netcode

[dentist guba 0]

1:trees should already be knocked over by explosions (i think)

so stuff like nukes should work fine if they are basically massive conventional explosions with different models

2:apparently the "crater" textures are 3D so maybe they could just be made bigger and retextured for bigger things like nukes. they might also need to be made to last longer.

3:as for grass i believe it gets "killed" by explosions anyway(dissapears).

[Metal Heart 0]

Quote[/b] ]Thats not the destruction, we have destroyed whole landscapes not increasing the lag.

Yes it is. The lag added by the destruction system is constant. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, just that it doesn't grow over time.

It's pretty obvious that it causes lag if disabling it allows 3x more players, eh?

[jono_retard 0]

Virtual Tool Kit (VTK) enhancements. To be completed in Q3 2007, the VTK further extends VBS2 through

additional editors, deformable terrain, thermal imaging and an API to 'plug-in' external AI.

http://www.vbs2.com/media/docs/vbs2_handout_letter.pdf

Thats where I read it and I seem to remember it being talked about in another forum. Either way sounds like something we need to keep an eye on.

chump