Nationalism

[WKK Gimbal 0]

I'm sorry to say this, but these forums ooze of nationalism, from time to time. Some people (not mentioning any names here) are very busy at mocking other nations or promoting their own - arguing over who has the best army, special ops, government or Shopping Channel for that matter.

Sure, it could serve a purpose to try and find out what rifle is better for certain purposes, if done objectively and based on facts - but I've seen many posts where people rely on CAPS LOCK or nationalistic outbursts to promote their point of view.

There's nothing wrong with loving your country, but doing so on the expense of others is wrong. Loving your neighbour doesn't hurt your family.

I also believe it's healthy to be able to take a unbiased look at your own government and see the points that requires improvements. This is infact for the better of the nation. Blind patriots are what the nazis where - it's a very fine line and all to easy to step over, without noticing.

Nationalism has caused millions upon millions of casualties throughout history, with no purpose but to self-promote. It all comes from some people feeling better than others and feeling that they are entitled to control other's lives.

Today, the world is turning more and more international. Those who are causing most trouble in our time, are the same who do not want to face this fact.

This could also apply to OFP - why really care if you play an American soldier or Chinese? As long as the game is fun and the rifle can aim, who cares where it's manufactured?

When playing online, why bother what nation your teammates are from, if you are having fun?

Yes, the quote below really says just as much as this long rambling.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

What country are you from??, You must be European

I consider myself a patriotic person but I don't, to my recollection, use it as a vehicle to insult others (except the French).

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> why really care if you play an American soldier or Chinese? As long as the game is fun and the rifle can aim, who cares where it's manufactured?<span id='postcolor'>

I would still rather be an American soldier in the game, better yet, a Canadian one. I prefer this because I would like to see the things in OFP that I do in real life, like Grizzlys or Cougars or LAV IIIs and Canadian soldiers.

I don't think that I am better than everyone else just because I am a Canadian, that would be stupid. I just like it better in Canada than anywhere else that I have been.

Tyler

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Blind patriots are what the nazis where<span id='postcolor'>

I disagree.

The Nazis weren't crazy about being German as they were about being Aryan. They killed plenty of Germans, mainly jews and other minorities who were not of the Aryan "superior" race.

The Nazis were not really nationalists, they were racists. Thier goal was not to conquer Europe for Germany, but to get rid of the Jews who they thought were ruining their economy and lifestyle.

The British or Polish or Russian or French or whatever did not fight the Germans for reasons of nationalsim or national gain but for reasons of survival. People used their patriotism as a rallying point, to get all the people together to fight a common foe, this is not a bad thing at all.

Tyler

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Feb. 03 2002,07:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Blind patriots are what the nazis where<span id='postcolor'>

I disagree.

The Nazis weren't crazy about being German as they were about being Aryan. They killed plenty of Germans, mainly jews and other minorities who were not of the Aryan "superior" race.

The Nazis were not really nationalists, they were racists. Thier goal was not to conquer Europe for Germany, but to get rid of the Jews who they thought were ruining their economy and lifestyle.

The British or Polish or Russian or French or whatever did not fight the Germans for reasons of nationalsim or national gain but for reasons of survival. People used their patriotism as a rallying point, to get all the people together to fight a common foe, this is not a bad thing at all.

Tyler<span id='postcolor'>

Thank you for your so "simplified" approach to the issue of "Nazi Germany". I am sure in Canada you learn a lot about this .

Unfortunately you are wrong..... if you realy urge to put it in one sentence then you should say: the Nazis were propagandists..which succeeded because the understood what a poor country needs: "someone easy to blame".

But that is already too simplified too. So dont waste your time teaching that..piece of history. And yes; you are right, I am agree to this thread title and I am European.

[hkg3 0]

Aren't Canadians just Scots who forgot to come home? hehehe

And i couldn't agree with u more Gimbal, there's nothing wrong with patriatism as long as it is not at the expense of anyone else.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

Albert, let me ask you this:

Who's fault is it for the rise to power of the Nazi regieme and the start of WWII??

The Nazis who created and spread the the racist/socialist propaganda?? or the masses of people who BELIEVED it??

I fail to see the the majority of German people at that time as "victims"

Tyler

[EveronVetsAgainstTheWar 0]

Um.....

GO USA WE HAVE THE BEST SHOPPING CHANNEL!!!

[Brentk 1]

we are also have a ESPN

hmm what if i was to say you are all right about nazis and what not in some back ass way?

uhhhhh huuhhhhh

[Longinius 1]

"Who's fault is it for the rise to power of the Nazi regieme and the start of WWII??

The Nazis who created and spread the the racist/socialist propaganda?? or the masses of people who BELIEVED it??

I fail to see the the majority of German people at that time as "victims""

I don't think the Nazis or the people was the decisive factor. I think it was the Versaille treaty. Without that being the way it was, the Nazis would never have gotten the peoples support like that.

[Brentk 1]

do i hear an echo?

[Placebo 29]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Feb. 04 2002,04:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Who's fault is it for the rise to power of the Nazi regieme and the start of WWII??<span id='postcolor'>

It's our fault ("our" being those who created the Versaille treaty).

[christophercles 0]

LONG LIVE AUSTRALIA!!! yeahhhhhhh!!!

[Supah 0]

I am dutch and at times proud to be dutch. But most of the time i just get really pissed of at some dutch ppl thinking they are a country that can tell others what to do. If you get down to it The Netherlands are nothing but a spec of dirt on the northsea coast. On the other hand the germans appear to love our royal family as much if not more then the dutch do. Mb we could make some money out of that

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

no wonder they everyone likes that royal family if those beautiful Argentinians marry into it!  The same was true in Norway where the bride was (well still is)very beautiful too!

With the royal familiy is the UK, that is SLIGTHLY more difficult, there you realy have to like the character of the Royals cause the rest....... well, okay...., it is not on me to judge their beauty.

And please, about Nazi-Germany, .... as I said before, If you want to simplify something..then do it...but dont expect anyone to consider you as intellectual. And secondly, I wonder how you switched the topic so quickly? Werent we discussing what the Nazis were? Now you are talking about the Germans in general? ...

[Damage Inc 0]

I'm not a nationalist.

At least I don't have a bigass waving flag like certain people

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Even though Finland has a very nice flag! Well most Scandic countries do!

[Wobble 1]

I think it was the Versaille treaty

why? Germany started WW1.. lost and got punished for its attempt at ruthless conquest... that kinda happens to the loser of the war.. ESPECALLY if they start it...

and if anyone has a problem with me having my flag in my sig, please let me know so I can tell you to fuck off

[Placebo 29]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ Feb. 04 2002,16:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">why? Germany started WW1.. lost and got punished for its attempt at ruthless conquest... that kinda happens to the loser of the war.. ESPECALLY if they start it...<span id='postcolor'>

Politicians start wars and it's the people who suffer, when war is over there is no need whatsoever for the people of any side to continue to be punished and thrown deeper and deeper into the depths of despair, as happened to the German people after WW1, if we hadn't done that to the German people then Hitler would have just been some jumped up lil twat of a "Bohemian house painter" who most likely would have died in prison..........

[red oct 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ Feb. 04 2002,17:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

"Germany started WW1.. lost and got punished for its attempt at ruthless conquest"

your incorrect on that. the assassination of the Arch Duke of Austria Hungery by a Young Serbian assassain is what started WW1. although germany did some pretty horrible things, i feel that how Brittian and France single Germany out of the blame and demanded that they pay millions that Germany couldnt afford to pay was just plain stupid. in turn that is what contributed to the start of WWII

[Placebo 29]

Hmm that's weird, I was under the "illusion" that it was the USA and France that wanted to be harsh to Germany after WWI and Britain and others wanted to go a bit "easier".........

I guess that's what happens when one reads docus/books from their own countries, anyone have something "un-biased" I can read?

[hkg3 0]

I thought this topic was about nationalism, not about the Germans and who started this and that. We kicked the butts of the Nazi's not the Germans and thats now history, let's leave it that way, gone but not forgotten.

And so what if i've got a Saltire on my avatar, maybe it makes it easier to see which country peeps come from, i don't mind if there's a Stars and Stripes or a cross of St George or a Maple leaf flying around whats the biggie?

[Slacker 0]

many people think german = nazi,

but this is wrong i'm interested in some stuff of the bundeswehr, especially the g36 (what a gun!!).

i'd like to say i'm not an nazi, just a freakin' german!

thx

[Assault (CAN) 1]

I don't think anyone here referred to all Germans as Nazis.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you want to simplify something..then do it...but dont expect anyone to consider you as intellectual<span id='postcolor'>

No Offence Albert, but whoever comes on to a gaming forum and tries to be an intellectual, has too much time on their hands.

I am just "simplifying" things for the sake of argument. If you want me to go in-depth, fine I will, but I don't feel like writing a 20 paragraph essay on the rise of Nazi Germany. Sorry if I "simplified" things too much for you.

Back on topic:

I believe someone said earlier that Europeans are less nationalistic for a reason. If you go to a place like Norway, just about everyone speaks the same language and can easily tell themselves apart from a Swede or Finn because of their language or culture.

A European's national identity is easier to recognise because of different, languages/cultures, etc from different countries. This is not so in North America. Since we are countries comprised of immagrants of various ethnic backgrounds, it is harder to identify who we are or where we come from.

Europeans can easily rally around their specific country's culture or language, this is harder to do in N.America, so people rally around a flag instead, its much easier.

Comments?

Tyler

[silent wings 0]

bOLLOCKS TO THAT..IM WELSH AND BY EXTENSION bRITISH AND IM PROUD OF IT..WALES IS AN OVERLOOKED COUNTRY AND I WILL USE THE MEANS AVAILABLE TO ME TO EDUCATE SOME FOREIGNERS ABOUT MY COUNTRY....AND GUESS WHAT CAPS AND NATIONALISTIC CRAP OK??!!!!(now where is that Jpeg of a massive welsh flag?

[Supah 0]

I dont see anything wrong with wanting to educate people about your country (must admit i know very little about welsh except: pretty countryside, Lots of sheep apparently and the longest name for a railwaystation in the world ...... owww and the welsh dragon, i know what the flag looks like i believe)

As for who started what every body made mistakes leading up to WWII but u cannot and should not blame modern day germans for that. I know allot of germans and most of them are geniunly nice people, although at times i must say that german tv people wear awfully clothes on tv. In the netherlands allot of jokes are made about the second world war and especially germans. Most about bicycles (fahrrad), most germans i know handle that pretty well and use it as a joke too which is much apreciated by the dutch.