Feedback on the demo from a U.S. LAN party

[Yoma 0]

I still contend that the co-op mission is too difficult for a crowd of newbies.  It should NOT be an almost impossible task to win this battle for a bunch  of guys who have played these kinds of missions before in other games.

It's not because other games have retarded difficulty that Arma should have that too.

In short: ARMA IS NOT EASY. Find yourself a decent teamleader, preferabilly with real military experience and train with that guy for a day or 2. You'll suddenly find it a whole lot easier and satisfying.

Given the right tactical approach and some decent squadmembers the demo coop is a pushover. I'll give you a hint for starters: at start flank left as far as you can, behind cover of hills. Then work your way to the street, you then have a clear view down the main road AND cover provided by sandbags. After you clear that street move slowly to the next parrallel street. You have the tactical advantage of a medic tent and ammosupplies.

When you play Arma you have to think you're REALLY OUT THERE, the smallest mistake will cost you dearely, work together as a TEAM, a TEAM IS MORE THEN THE SUM OF ITS PARTS.

If the demo was a pushover for every noob that tries it, these guys would be very very very dissapointed when they bought full version, because i repeat: ARMA IS NOT AN EASY GAME.

[fish44 0]

Anyone who has ever had a lan party, either big or small, knows that 'trying' an new game or demo is not a runner, especially if some have not even tried the game at all.

The time at such an event is so precious,that all much come there knowing that their setup is working, and all the setup issues are out of the way.

No matter what game u tried with so many people, if it was not carefully planned, in that all had been familiar with it, and were 'comfortable' with its limitations, it was doomed to failure

Im an OPF player (though not as often as i'd like), and it took me a couple of hours just to be comfortable with my key setup to run ARMA in co-op mode. And i can tell u the OPF keystrokes with my eyes closed! It also took some time to get my system  running it at 'reasonable' frames, as its is very demanding, so much more than OPF. So if this kind of stuff is being done at the lan meet, then i can understand the outcome.

my .02$

[znashin 0]

Quote[/b] ]I´m still waiting for the official version of that. It´s user-talk, hearsay and in no way confirmed by BIS

You should really make sure what you're saying is true before making strong, matter-of-fact statements like that.

Taken from Armed Assault Zone, 19th Jan:

Quote[/b] ]Markus says, “It is unfortunate that the German, Czech and Polish versions were released so earlyâ€.

(Link)

It's not a whole-hearted apology, I know, but as far as I'm concerned it's the publisher that should be apologizing, not BIS.

Quote[/b] ]Were we told that the game is unfinished before we ordered it ? I must have missed that.

There are fewer and fewer finished PC games being released. Lack of a pre-release demo, the rush to find a publisher and the staggered release dates should have all been warning signs. I'm not trying to find excuses for the publisher, I couldn't and wouldn't want to, it's just that there seems to be alot of broken hearted OFP fans out there. The game is great, just unfinished. I'm glad you've uninstalled arma and I hope you re-install it under happier circumstances.

@ Sgt.Rock

Quote[/b] ]Like I said, IMO the objective is too hard for someone who is new to this game.

It isn't easy but, like someone said, attacking from the hill west of spawn makes it at least fifty per cent easier. Take out the first squad when they have stopped still and are nice and exposed. Then, get a SAW setup about 50m west of spawn covering north with one or two riflemen covering the hills north east. Push the riflemen up to the western-most building and tents before the brdm arrives from the west, 16:58 iirc, having them advance watching the hills to the east under the cover of the (elevated) SAW. Bingo! You're in the town. If you're playing with friends in a team the street clearing cqb is always fun and can be very fast. Don't forget that while complacency is your enemy, speed is your friend. The longer you dawdle somewhere, the more likely it gets that you will be bumped or flanked.

On the ctf map 10 or so rounds takes out a brdm's tire. Crippled. Always have a rocket launcher or two covering the US flag. Just east of it or on the roof just west are choice spots. The trouble is that greedy bastard noobs take all the US rocket launchers (usually the same people that grab a pistol, a sniper rifle and binocs ) and run straight at the sov flag. This will lose you the map nine times out of ten if it happens.

Use the cti to have a look at choppers for five minutes. All it's good for, as far as I'm concerned.

Finally, when advancing on any map the lead and the tail men should always be using alt to look around and make sure you aren't being flanked. Use alt, use alt, use alt. Probably already know to hold down rmb while zoomed to double zoom and hold your breath but I'll say it anyway because some people I've played with have missed this, and it's a game wrecker.

Hope this helps somebody.

[4 IN 1 0]

Finally, when advancing on any map the lead and the tail men should always be using alt to look around and make sure you aren't being flanked. Use alt, use alt, use alt. Probably already know to hold down rmb while zoomed to double zoom and hold your breath but I'll say it anyway because some people I've played with have missed this, and it's a game wrecker.

Hope this helps somebody.

thats why a $190 TIR cames into the way, it saves you time, it saves your brainpower, and may as well saves your ingame life

[znashin 0]

Quote[/b] ]thats why a $190 TIR cames into the way

Yes, I am tempted. Alt keys have come free with every keyboard I've ever bought though.

It is a big point. Everytime I see someone running through open terrain and using the strafe keys to look around ala cs it makes me want to shake them up. I don't even strafe/lean round street corners to check a street I won't be running down anymore, I just run past the corner and look down the street without stopping. If I see a baddie I can let go of alt and swing my gun round to where I was looking. Fraction of a second. Or start sprinting forward/reversing if I haven't been seen or don't like the look of what I've seen.

The subtle differences in ofp/arma controls compared to other fps become profound when you get used to them. It's just that people don't want to make the effort or have other control systems hardwired into their heads. My brother loaded up the demo, ran around for ten seconds, no lie, ten seconds before giving up. P'poor for a thirty four year old ex-army corporal. Life's too short to try to explain things to some people.

[Maddmatt 1]

The coop mission is hard, but that's because it's meant for more than 1 person (hence the name coop).

Me and Ironsight managed it together, the AI all died but we did it.

And I don't see why people complain about the flight model. The Blackhawk in the demo is very easy to fly after a couple attempts.

[4 IN 1 0]

Quote[/b] ]thats why a $190 TIR cames into the way

Yes, I am tempted. Alt keys have come free with every keyboard I've ever bought though.

It is a big point. Everytime I see someone running through open terrain and using the strafe keys to look around ala cs it makes me want to shake them up. I don't even strafe/lean round street corners to check a street I won't be running down anymore, I just run past the corner and look down the street without stopping. If I see a baddie I can let go of alt and swing my gun round to where I was looking. Fraction of a second. Or start sprinting forward/reversing if I haven't been seen or don't like the look of what I've seen.

The subtle differences in ofp/arma controls compared to other fps become profound when you get used to them. It's just that people don't want to make the effort or have other control systems hardwired into their heads. My brother loaded up the demo, ran around for ten seconds, no lie, ten seconds before giving up. P'poor for a thirty four year old ex-army corporal. Life's too short to try to explain things to some people.

its like asking an ex-F1 driver to play a F1 game, and guess what

they already had that in the past, and i would wondered if they want to do the same in a game even when they have already left the place where they do it for real

[Jack-UK 0]

Last time I looked the Demo was Single Player AND Multiplayer.

You do have the 1.03.5116 version I trust, if so it has a single player mode.

Planck

There is a single player mode available in the demo, but unfortunaly still no missions.

the fact that they got a patch for a demo already shows that it has been rushed a bit... But they'll probably release a next patch with a single player mission, at least I hope.

There is still indeed a lot of room for improvement, so let's hope that when the 505 release comes, we get a decent product that doesn't require a patch just to be able to play.

The 5116 build was a 'quick' patch and is only really meant for dedicated servers.. though it DOES work as a client platform. Hence why you get an error message when connecting to a server, but it will run fine...

There will be both an MP demo AND an SP demo (eventually) though dont expect SP till after 505 release... (i guess they maybe held off on it cause of bad reviews of official missions)

[SyB 0]

Quote[/b] ](Planck @ Jan. 28 2007,16:30)

Last time I looked the Demo was Single Player AND Multiplayer.

You do have the 1.03.5116 version I trust, if so it has a single player mode.

Planck

Yes, no SP missions in the Demo, however you can play the embedded MP missions just by yourself without having to connect to a Demo Server by 'hosting' a multiplayer match and selecting 'LAN'... (if u select NET - people will start joining ya - unless you pwd yourself) For a bit of 'practice' before trying out a real MP 'cause you need it for trying out the Demo... lol.

Or, you can create a Dedi on the same machine you're running the Demo game on or on another comp. on your network. - you prob. already new this planck, but others may not have picked up on it... anyhoo.

And, yes agree with alot of SgtRock's comments... 'she's a bit rough round the edges' and good on ya for making suggestions they may help BIS with with the audience aim of the demo... evolution is always painful isn't it?

Sy

[MidTower 0]

=JpS=SgtRock,

You hit almost all the points on the head! Good post and well thought out, just hope they listen.

[Planck 1]

I think I'm too old to listen to some of these petty rants

Planck

[Luciano 0]

Quote[/b] ]SP demo

If the SP demo will be as good as the campaign, then its probably a really good idea not to have any SP demos.

[=jps=sgtrock 4]

Thanks for the compliments, guys. Hopefully, BIS will at least consider releasing an updated set of scenarios for the demo at some point addressing some of the points that I raised.

BTW, I did manage to finally get into the Blackhawk as a pilot and spent some time flying around. I'm not much of a pilot, but I had no trouble flying it.

However, I did notice one minor bug. I was unable to assign both bots to chain guns. Only one (the left) was mountable by them. Is this a common issue for the Blackhawks in the retail game as well?

Still looking forward to a North American release so I can get my clan excited about this game.

[Shashman 0]

However, I did notice one minor bug.  I was unable to assign both bots to chain guns.  Only one (the left) was mountable by them.

Yeah I find that a bit of a let-down. It's more than a 'minor' bug for me...

Multiple gunner positions on vehicles is one of the improvements over OFP I was most looking forward to experiencing with ArmA, but I can't order AI to man the second minigun (not chain gun ) which is a shame...

Having said that, the AI are useless gunners. I can hover, positioning my Blackhawk so that the desired target is in plain sight of the gunner, and he'll sit there picking his nose. Really frustrating

[Scrub 0]

Yes, the nose picking is a problem. When you have them set to aware or higher, (and pick out a target or two ). Then self designate a bit. The important point is when AI DO shoot, they are conservative on bursts and accurate.

[Jack-UK 0]

Yep its irritating.. The commander in the tanks seem pretty good, they always seem to engage quickly and accurately...

The gunner on the other hand spends most his time facing the opposite direction and doesnt engage... then the commander runs out of ammo so i end up having to take gunner myself or go on an extreme roadkill...

[Maddmatt 1]

However, I did notice one minor bug. I was unable to assign both bots to chain guns. Only one (the left) was mountable by them. Is this a common issue for the Blackhawks in the retail game as well?

There is a workaround. First order a guy into the gunner seat, then you get into the other gunner seat that the AI don't get into. Now swap to the other gun seat using the action menu. You have now moved the AI into the second gun seat, now get out and order another AI into the first gun seat.

Now both guns should be manned. It's a pain, but it works and gives you some more firepower.