Aircraft counter measures

[Maj.Reaper 0]

Will the aircraft such as the Cobra etc be supplied with flares or chaff in the final release as it seems this item was missed of the German version i am currently playing and so one well placed shot from any AA weapon means the demise of the craft it is fired at.

If so will this counter measures system be automatic or pilot launched and will it give off an audible lock on warning?

I am personally not a pilot but feel it unfair to those that are, i am not after the random unreliable AA system in BF2 at the moment but some form of defense is required.

If the Counter measures are added will the spaces taken by the Strela be reduced as at this time 2 rockets plus launcher=no primary weapon for personal defense.

[max power 21]

Yes, I too think that attack helicopters should be invulnerable.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

As somone might have said (if not then I'm saying it), the best countermeasure is a good pilot.

Seriously though, aircraft countermeasures are definately on the list of things that the modders should be responsible for (and don't worry it's an easy task for scripters to do and by now has become virtually standard on all aircraft addons and replacement/enhancement mods). That way we don't have to be worried about being stuck with the same countermeasures if BIS screws them up (or if we find better ways to do it).

Besides I would be disappointed if BIS took away the challenge and thrill of doing it yourself.

[aus_twisted 0]

I dout BIS will add such features, they seriously need to fix the physics for jets first. Currently the Harriers worst enemy is the ground lol.

[Universel 0]

As somone might have said (if not then I'm saying it), the best countermeasure is a good pilot.  

Let me laugh at you.

For now it is absolutely impossible to evade any AA missile, period.

This is a bug, not a feature.

[Maddmatt 1]

Aircraft countermeasures will make a big difference in the game, I think it should be done. We will probably have to rely on the modders for this one though. Maybe BIS will surprise us, but I wont hold my breath for this one.

[Pierrot 0]

Before implementing counter measures, BIS should implement satisfactory avionics. I'd like to manipulate realistic TOW and Vikhr missiles in ArmA.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

I must admit - I have yet to miss a chopper using AA missiles in ArmA, They always hit and take down the chopper!

[KiwisDoFly 0]

I don't know about you guys, but I want bang for my buck when lugging a huge rocket around that takes up half my precious inventory space. I don't want to drag that stuff around just so I can miss when some flying jock goes flying overhead.

I say we leave it as it is.

[Maddmatt 1]

I don't know about you guys, but I want bang for my buck when lugging a huge rocket around that takes up half my precious inventory space. I don't want to drag that stuff around just so I can miss when some flying jock goes flying overhead.

I say we leave it as it is.

I disagree with you completely. 1 AA soldier should not find it easy to take down an aircraft on his own. AA soldiers should only be effective in groups.

[zyklone 1]

Will the aircraft such as the Cobra etc be supplied with flares or chaff in the final release as it seems this item was missed of the German version i am currently playing and so one well placed shot from any AA weapon means the demise of the craft it is fired at.

Uhm yes.

One well placed shot from an AA weapon means the demise of nearly all existing aircraft. Chaffs and Flares are something that gives you very very small chance to escape certain death. They're very far from AA invulnerability.

For a slow moving vehicle like a heli AAs nearly always hit. The idea is to not let them get an AA lock in the first place.

[Deadfast 43]

I think that 50% chance that rocket will hit even after launching counter-measures would be OK.

What do you think ?

[l mandrake 9]

If so will this counter measures system be automatic or pilot launched and will it give off an audible lock on warning?

As far as I know you only get a warning when a radar-guided AA system locks you up. Stingers/Strelas use infrared tracking(heat seeking), these systems are passive, i.e. they do not emit anything (like a radar beam) so there is no way for the pilot to know he's been locked up. The first he hears about it is when the missile is launched, which only gives him a few seconds to react. Yep, serious brown trousers time

I think thats why IRL low-flying aircraft (choppers, A10s) are constantly banking and dumping flares when inside threat zones, although I don't know if the flare dispensers can be set to automatic, timed intervals - if so it would be cool to have this in ARMA

Mandrake

PS. I don't think a concrete x% survival chance should be implemented for choppers versus AA missiles. The range/angle of deflection/atmospherics should produce a unique kill probability for each shot IMO.

[Deadfast 43]

PS. I don't think a concrete x% survival chance should be implemented for choppers versus AA missiles. The range/angle of deflection/atmospherics should produce a unique kill probability for each shot IMO.

I actually agree.

When rocket is 30 cm from heli and you fire counter-measures 50% chance of survival is a bit (more) off .

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Hmm. I told y'all it can be scripted far better than it can be hardcoded by BIS. We already have everything we need for it too. Step one, use an EH to detect incoming missiles, step two, track the missile and wait until it's within range, step three, dump flares/chaff/whatever with various particles and effects, step four, spoof the missile, check the aircraft's speed, altitude, heading, and compare it to that of the missile, then throw in a little random probability, all to determine the probability of successfully deflecting the missile.

Any good scripter will do all of this, taking physics into account, rather than half-assing it with an entirely random percentage, which most other games often get away with. Realism is always the best gameplay I like to say, if you base everything off of real life it will work out the same way IMO, since obviously everything works out some way in real life, and nobody can argue with real life.

[Universel 0]

You know what is the worst/saddes here?

ALL this existed and exists in OFP since the begining!!!

I mean the evading probability depending on angle and relative speed.

[l mandrake 9]

That's true I could never hit a damn thing with stinger in OPF (unless the chopper was flying directly away from me)

[Big Dawg KS 6]

You know what is the worst/saddes here?

ALL this existed and exists in OFP since the begining!!!

I mean the evading probability depending on angle and relative speed.

Yo, that still exists, it's impossible for it not to exist. In OFP missiles couldn't (or wouldn't) lead their targets, so unless they were both traveling relatively parallel or the target traveling very slowly or the missile was fired at extremely close range (close enough for direct fire), they would completely miss no matter what. Apparently ArmA now has the capability for missiles to lead their targets, thus making them more reliable. But to say it's impossible for a missile to still miss it's target in ArmA is bullshit, physics denies that. Besides, that has nothing to do with countermeasures, where they change how effective the missile is from a certain angle. For example: a missile approaching from behind the target would have a better chance at hitting it, but the countermeasures are also more effective from behind, so it's no longer best to fire from behind the target. Anyway my point is that countermeasures don't simply multiply the probability of evading a missile, it's more complex than that.

[Universel 0]

Bla bla bla...

Obviously you didn't try evading AA in Arma with a chopper.

I did try it 100 times.

Maybe you don't even have Arma.

I won't argue to this theory crap, just go try what you say then come back.

PS : In OFP missiles do lead targets. They just can't perform crazy 180° turns like in Arma.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

RE Chaff and flare, we're working on a derivative of Footmunch's countermeasures scripts that should make SAMs more "realistic" without ruining the game play completely and making aircraft invincible.

RE: Warnings - As a few others have already said it can all be scripted... We've managed to script launch warnings for the the RKSL Harrier and if SAMs use the RKSL FCSS you can get warnings for Search Radars, FC Radars and AAA.  I'll post a short vid later on.

[Maj.Reaper 0]

Sounds great will look forward to seeing the video and the script.

I am not after poor quality AA such as the crap that passess as AA missiles in Bf2 as thats totally rubbish but just feel that the pilots need some form of defensive system as Strelas lock on automaticlly, no warning, not target aquisition timer, and thou they take only half the armour off they normally knock the tail or main rotors to hell and cause the pilot to crash.

The other sad part of this is, is that because the pilot crashes it is classified as Friendly Fire kill by the pilot so he looses score and the AA user is not credited with the kill.

[deanosbeano 0]

on this subject ,i started working on the conversion of oymans (with permission )flare.pbo sometime ago, unfortuhnately i got a little busy and forgot about it.

any way it looks like this at the moment . hope to have it full y working soon and will ask oyman for release permission.

p.s its hard to get a miss shot , because fraps disturbs the loop that sets the direction of missile and also its exited on ?(random 100 < 50)

the video

[sniper pilot 36]

PS : In OFP missiles do lead targets. They just can't perform crazy 180° turns like in Arma.

ive seen that too...its total BS...but thats just my opinion...

[aus_twisted 0]

PS : In OFP missiles do lead targets. They just can't perform crazy 180° turns like in Arma.

ive seen that too...its total BS...but thats just my opinion...

You can easily make missiles perform such turns in OFP, it all depends on the config settings.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Sounds great will look forward to seeing the video and the script.

RKSL Thread with the Demo video as promised

As for the quality of the SAMs themselves alot depends on the setup of the missile. Its really not the game engine thats the problem.