Civilian Men/Women

[ColonelSandersLite 0]

Personally, why *shouldnt* there be women units avaliable, were not talking about some game like Cod, or such that is limited to only combat scenarios, were talking about a game that has huge opportunity to make very immersive large scale missiions, where for a breif time one really 'lives' there, not just fighting the whole time, where the player can get many opportunites to meet and interact with other ai peoples, maybe join a rebel group, maybe cut scene lil chat with some locals to get some info, etc etc. If Arma is is Ofp but hugely upgraded, why would anyone think it couldnt use some 'high' quality women units with so many possibilities, theres really alot of games out there that are great that allow women combatant companions, u know why I think they did it, cause its different, because its fun to have some neat in game times adventuring with a female combatant at ur side. Kotor, Kotor2, Oblivion, aside from having women as companions there are tons of ofp missions where u interact with ai women of all sorts, not in some cheesy way, but its still 'different', or should we live in a world where theres only men, and if theres women, they certainly should not have guns? I dont agree with any such view that limits potential of what could be a really nice addon for missions that might compliment the use of them.

We need kids and old people too. You could even make a wheelchair as a car

[Guest]

Personally, why *shouldnt* there be women units avaliable, were not talking about some game like Cod, or such that is limited to only combat scenarios, were talking about a game that has huge opportunity to make very immersive large scale missiions, where for a breif time one really 'lives' there, not just fighting the whole time, where the player can get many opportunites to meet and interact with other ai peoples, maybe join a rebel group, maybe cut scene lil chat with some locals to get some info, etc etc. If Arma is is Ofp but hugely upgraded, why would anyone think it couldnt use some 'high' quality women units with so many possibilities, theres really alot of games out there that are great that allow women combatant companions, u know why I think they did it, cause its different, because its fun to have some neat in game times adventuring with a female combatant at ur side. Kotor, Kotor2, Oblivion, aside from having women as companions there are tons of ofp missions where u interact with ai women of all sorts, not in some cheesy way, but its still 'different', or should we live in a world where theres only men, and if theres women, they certainly should not have guns? I dont agree with any such view that limits potential of what could be a really nice addon for missions that might compliment the use of them.

We need kids and old people too.  You could even make a wheelchair as a car

Nice to see constructive criticism of ones post

[low light 0]

I've seen a couple of recent pictures from the Editor MOD, showing 3 women, 2 generals (though one looked like royalty) and a Man wearing a Blue Press BPV/BA. I guess they are not included in the 'proper' editor. They look pretty good though. All those complaining about there only being 1 woman can now rest at ease, there are 2 more!

[Ian Malcolm 0]

I've seen a couple of recent pictures from the Editor MOD, showing 3 women, 2 generals (though one looked like royalty) and a Man wearing a Blue Press BPV/BA. I guess they are not included in the 'proper' editor. They look pretty good though. All those complaining about there only being 1 woman can now rest at ease, there are 2 more!

There is just one woman in bit different clothing - that TV reporter. Kind of ugly though and doesn't have any animations except those from cutscenes, so you can't use it as playable addon.

[EiZei 0]

I've seen a couple of recent pictures from the Editor MOD, showing 3 women, 2 generals (though one looked like royalty) and a Man wearing a Blue Press BPV/BA. I guess they are not included in the 'proper' editor. They look pretty good though. All those complaining about there only being 1 woman can now rest at ease, there are 2 more!

There is just one woman in bit different clothing - that TV reporter. Kind of ugly though and doesn't have any animations except those from cutscenes, so you can't use it as playable addon.

http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aaaahhheq4.jpg

You can say that again.

[low light 0]

Now that is pretty nasty!

Hey it's a start having a model in there, it just means there is a possibility for development.

[Ian Malcolm 0]

There is just one woman in bit different clothing - that TV reporter. Kind of ugly though and doesn't have any animations except those from cutscenes, so you can't use it as playable addon.

http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aaaahhheq4.jpg

You can say that again.

Ok. You CAN use it as cross between The Thing and Alien. But you CAN'T use it as proper playable addon, because of lack of proper animations and missing (i guess) proxies for weapons, NVGs etc

[MiG 0]

There is just one woman in bit different clothing - that TV reporter. Kind of ugly though and doesn't have any animations except those from cutscenes, so you can't use it as playable addon.

http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aaaahhheq4.jpg

You can say that again.

Ok. You CAN use it as cross between The Thing and Alien. But you CAN'T use it as proper playable addon, because of lack of proper animations and missing (i guess) proxies for weapons, NVGs etc

I've noticed that when i check the girl models in the editor . I think that should be fixed in the next patch, it's not nice for BIS image have unfinnished addons included inside the game... Dunno what BIS has against women...

[DUX0726 0]

The only "combat" that women need to see should look like those "Beach-head Scenes" from Saving Private Ryan; only with bedsheets and feet flying all over the place instead of bullets and blood. Is it sexist? Yeah. Do I care? No. Sometimes the old ways really are the best ways. Slap those female A.I. in a bikini and be done with it! Yeah, I said it.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Women serve in the US Army as MPs, Psyops/Civil Affairs, Field Artillery, Combat Medics,and various other things in SOF/USASOC etc. I've seen both men and women terrified and in fear, and I've seen both men and women shoulder it and go on. Women perform just as well in combat as men do, but unfortunately they have such "heroes," like Lynch to look up to who did nothing and got awards while the other women in her convoy killed the enemy and ended up dead.

Getting rid of the boundary and instilling more of an Everyone Is A Soldier/Rifleman First mindset is the first start to getting rid of female soldiers who do nothing but get passed up and down the Barracks. Getting rid of the idea that women are helpless and weak and beginning to teach that they're capable is one of the best things we can do as a military right now.

I don't think the US as a nation is ready for this and that is why female soldiers who perform poorly do so, because there is such a low standard for them anyways. Raise their standard and raise expectations of them and I promise they'll catch up, or they will be gone.

[DUX0726 0]

Well, the above was ment as a "Funny" on my part but I'm not ashamed to take it to a more serious level either. I don't believe that women should perform combat roles or roles that get them anywhere near combat. What's my reasoning you might ask? Because I reject all this new social progress bull. Things worked fine under the rules we used to have. It wasn't broke before and they fixed it. I'll never support women in the military as they are currently being used. I just don't like it, and I don't care if anyone agrees with me or not. It's just the way I feel about it.

Errata: I once had a female cadet tell me point blank that my viewpoint on this was a reflection of my macho insecurity and that I had no realistic evidence to back up my stance. To this I replied that "Yes", indeed she was right, but that didn't bother me at all. I am a pretty open-minded person on a lot of issues but this is not one of them. Would I give the idea of equal opportunity for females in the military lip service to a superior officer or review board? Yeah, I would. (It would be a bold faced lie, but I've been forced to lie by the current state of insanity regarding this issue as it pertains to Political Correctness B.S. so I don't feel one bit bad about it. If you won't hear my voice, then you will deal with my subversive response. I won't just roll-over. I'll just get even, quietly.) Will I continue to hold these beliefs in private and do whatever I can behind the scenes to stymie it's progress? Yes, I will. Is that an outdated way of thinking and unfair? Well, it's subjective but even if it is; I simply don't care. I am immovable on this issue and until I leave this earth, I will work against it. Then whoever is left after I'm gone can do whatever they want. I might eventually lose this fight but once again, my mind is made up, so am really not bothered by winning or losing this argument in the long run. So long as I'm here, then I'll push to have an effect on the debate in the way that I see fit. ~fin.

P.S. Just being honest, can't hate me for that I hope.

[Millenium7 0]

Ok. You CAN use it as cross between The Thing and Alien. But you CAN'T use it as proper playable addon, because of lack of proper animations and missing (i guess) proxies for weapons, NVGs etc

I just had another look and marian quandt DOES have all the animations. Walking, running, sprinting, crouching, laying and so on, most are not the same as a male soldier either. Its just the hands that are stuffed up. I'm guessing she doesn't have weapon positions assigned (so you can't see any weapons on her) and the hands... well I dunno what the hell is going on there but shouldn't be too hard to fix. So if someone can fix these 2 things then we have women soldiers

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Its just the hands that are stuffed up.

I guess BIS was using added Maya animations for the hand and finger movement, that´s why the model looks so weird. You can see that she´s doing fancy stuff with her hands in the cutscenes.

So it´s no bug, it´s just that they wanted to make more complex gestures.

Quote[/b] ]P.S. Just being honest, can't hate me for that I hope.

Get to year 2006

[DUX0726 0]

Get to year 2006

That's just the point I think. It's 2006, and I'm here, and since I'm here, and these are my thoughts on the subject...then they are just as much a part of the "now" as the other viewpoint is. Just because some people don't want to hear it or prefer to stick their head in the sand about it doesn't change the fact that it is indeed a viewpoint shared by more than you might realize; and is therefor "REAL." But by all means, pretend it isn't a fact of life: Makes our subversive job easier. Just because a vocal and admittedly politically powerful point of view has moved forward, doesn't mean that those who don't care for it are just going to lay down and take it. It forces us underground, but we are still here, and we have the power to affect the issue, even still. When you throw my point of casually out the window, where do you think it goes? It doesn't just magically disappear, although, I'll be happy to let you think that it has.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Well, the above was ment as a "Funny" on my part but I'm not ashamed to take it to a more serious level either. I don't believe that women should perform combat roles or roles that get them anywhere near combat. What's my reasoning you might ask? Because I reject all this new social progress bull. Things worked fine under the rules we used to have. It wasn't broke before and they fixed it. I'll never support women in the military as they are currently being used. I just don't like it, and I don't care if anyone agrees with me or not. It's just the way I feel about it.

Errata: I once had a female cadet tell me point blank that my viewpoint on this was a reflection of my macho insecurity and that I had no realistic evidence to back up my stance. To this I replied that "Yes", indeed she was right, but that didn't bother me at all. I am a pretty open-minded person on a lot of issues but this is not one of them. Would I give the idea of equal opportunity for females in the military lip service to a superior officer or review board? Yeah, I would. (It would be a bold faced lie, but I've been forced to lie by the current state of insanity regarding this issue as it pertains to Political Correctness B.S. so I don't feel one bit bad about it. If you won't hear my voice, then you will deal with my subversive response. I won't just roll-over. I'll just get even, quietly.) Will I continue to hold these beliefs in private and do whatever I can behind the scenes to stymie it's progress? Yes, I will. Is that an outdated way of thinking and unfair? Well, it's subjective but even if it is; I simply don't care. I am immovable on this issue and until I leave this earth, I will work against it. Then whoever is left after I'm gone can do whatever they want. I might eventually lose this fight but once again, my mind is made up, so am really not bothered by winning or losing this argument in the long run. So long as I'm here, then I'll push to have an effect on the debate in the way that I see fit. ~fin.

P.S. Just being honest, can't hate me for that I hope.

Well, I'm not some insecure little person who gets offended just because someone disagrees with me, and hey you do what you think is right just CYOA. At least you have the guts to hold strong in your belief.

Haha, here's an amusing anecdote you might like about a female cadet:

Way back in the old days, circa Early Summer 2004 I attended Airborne school at Ft Benning georgia. Our class started just in time for all the kids from ROTC and West Point to show up. On the first day of inprocessing when Sgt Airborne is walking around acting like a dickface to everyone, he asks a female cadet why all of the cadets have the letter "C" preceding their roster number.

In a loud and shrill voice she responded with, "Because Cs get degrees!" I could only have imagined the big stupid smile on her face, as I was standing behind her, but I was able to clearly see the look on Sgt Airborne's face. His features shifted from indifference, to shock, then almost immediatly to anger and intolerance. He loudly informed her of his 2 Masters in whatever and ordered her to get down. He then proceded to explain to her that "C," stands for "Civilian," and that in his opinion neither she nor the rest of the cadets deserved to recieve training at such an austere school. I don't know if you can imagine the amount of laughter directed at her, and I can happily say that she did not graduate the course.

[Balschoiw 0]

I guess you need to come over your machismo tendencies. Women have proven to be reliable and good soldiers, sometimes better than their male equivalents as they have to push harder than males to justify their presence in the military because of guys like you.

Just from the news:

15th of december 2006

Quote[/b] ]THE SWORD OF HONOUR, awarded to the officer cadet considered by the Commandant to be the best of the course, was presented to Junior Under Officer Angela Marie Laycock, who has been commissioned into The Royal Engineers.

Angela grew up and went to school in Bedford, joining the Army Cadets when she was 14. She attended Welbeck Sixth Form College, gaining 5 A grade A levels. She then went to Emmanuel College Cambridge and studied Engineering, gaining a MEng (2:1).

Angela has represented England at rowing and was a Henley women’s finalist and national championship medallist. She has represented the Academy at rowing, triathlon, aquathon, boxing, athletics and cross-country.

Angela’s father Raymond is a printer and her mother, Janet, is a special needs assistant.

I have served with women in combat situations and all I can say is that the ones who make it to active duty are worth every penny and in fact do contribute to moral and team-spirit alot and as a positive side-effect males don´t behave like jerks after some time on duty as the presence of females does influence their behaviour in a positive way.

I guess we´ve had a very indepth discussion about this in the offtopic section and I´m not feeling to repeat that all over.

If there´s a problem with women in the military, it´s all inside your head.

[DUX0726 0]

If there´s a problem with women in the military, it´s all inside your head.

Too true/doesn't matter a damn. I'm here. I have an effect. I will not yield. I will not do anything stupid to give away my position. We are at an end. The more things change...

Hoo Ahh! - till the bitter end.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Balschiow, the majority of the women in the Us army I'v been around were absolutely competent, but theres always a few who get noticed the most and develop a reputation that spoil it for the rest. I don't know if you guys have the same problem. I've also noticed that presence of females encourages soldiers to act less professional, less mature, and less competent; sometimes this is without merit because the females aren't giving them any attention anyways, and soemtimes it is encouraged by them.

The only way to fix these problems is by more discipline on both sides, and forced integration. Because of the new BCT organization, I've seen females running in formations during PT that before were entirely male, some are able to handle it like they should, others can't.

I think if a woman wants to go to Ranger school or SFAS, she should be able to as long as she meets the same standards as everyone else.

[DUX0726 0]

The problem with the old "same performance" yard stick is that it ignores literally thousands of years of human socialized norms that run at an extremely deep level inside of the consciousness of men and women the world over. I concead that there will always be exceptions to the rule but by-and-large it's never going to be as effective as same-sex units taking on more traditional gender roles. In our modern era, we like to try and forget that men and women are different in more ways than genetaila, and the weak-minded buy into it, but an Army has one purpose-to fight and kill. All your best "new-found" idealism won't reverse thousands of years of gender programing. It's best to just leave it alone in my opinion, because it's never going to work on a scale large enough to be suitable for an Army. It's a political issue from top to bottom, not a widely pragmatic one that is of value to an organization that lives and dies by the measure of it's pragmatic application of resources. If I'm proved wrong on this--and I'm willing to take that into account--it will be long after I'm gone, and long after we would recognise the world that we currently inhabit. The Hiruli, upon whom the modern military tradition is built upon, were not an army of "lovers" for no reason, and yes, "that" does play a role in Armies even today, to a certain extent. This whole issue is like "new math" to me, it will fail eventually and we will go back.

[DodgyGeeza 0]

^^^

Exactly right. You've hit the nail right on the head.

Any "man" that believes a woman should have the right to fight along side a man in any combat situation is a coward. There is no place for a woman in combat and it is only because of modern political correctness and ideologies that they are there in the first place.

Also until you have seen what combat is like i suggest you shut up about your pathetic "injustices".

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Any "man" that believes a woman should have the right to fight along side a man in any combat situation is a coward. There is no place for a woman in combat and it is only because of political correctness that they are there in the first place.

Also until you have seen what combat is like i suggest you shut up about your pathetic "injustices".

A coward? I'v been to war. Have you?

I guess believing that everyone should fight is a mark of cowardice then.

[DodgyGeeza 0]

Any "man" that believes a woman should have the right to fight along side a man in any combat situation is a coward. There is no place for a woman in combat and it is only because of political correctness that they are there in the first place.

Also until you have seen what combat is like i suggest you shut up about your pathetic "injustices".

A coward? I'v been to war. Have you?

What is your definition of war? Anyway, i'm not interested in having a political debate and your obvious attempts to put words into my mouth.

[H00t74 0]

Dodgy a few of us have seen real combat so maybe you should tone it down. This thread is way out of control and not what is was posted for.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

I was in OIF 3, performed numerous cordon and searchs, raids, patrols both mounted and dismounted and air assaults. How don't see how women in the military is political unless you make it political.

[Placebo 28]

As was discovered a long time ago people on these forums are not capable of discussing this subject in a mature and reasoned manner, so if you're an addon maker and want to make women addons, make them, if not, don't, life's much simpler that way.