Special Forces in ArmA

[meyamoti 0]

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8730/aa170906pic03cb7.jpg

The guy farthest is a sniper.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/5676/abt10do0.jpg

But with a new model.

[-CS-SOBR-1st-I-R- 0]

The guy farthest is a sniper.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/5676/abt10do0.jpg

But with a new model.

Nice pic there, never seen it before!

@Viper - Yes the dude back there is a sniper.. you can tell from:

1. Sniper Weaponsystem (M24 or M40 - cant tell)

2. Headset and hat (more SF style)

3. Sidearm (see right limb)

4. Gloves

5. Two Knee protectors

[-CS-SOBR-1st-I-R- 0]

Questions that still are looking for an answer:

1. American operators... will they be renamed ? "Black Op" was kind of absured... and if renamed, will they be 1st SFOD or 1st. Special Forces or SEALs ??

2. Which DPM will they use ? Think of the Spetsnaz and how their DPM has changed through the decades...

3. Will there be jungle, desert, mountain, standard DPM for the special forces ?

4. Will the inventory be more flexible ? In OFP, Spec ops were in disadvantages compared to infantry as in CQB fighting, they had no handgrenades.

5. Will they have "knifes" or "hand to hand combat capacity" for silent killing ?

[ThePredator 0]

SOBR[1st-I-R] @ Oct. 15 2006,03:39)]

The guy farthest is a sniper.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/5676/abt10do0.jpg

But with a new model.

Nice pic there, never seen it before!

@Viper - Yes the dude back there is a sniper.. you can tell from:

1. Sniper Weaponsystem (M24 or M40 - cant tell)

2. Headset and hat (more SF style)

3. Sidearm (see right limb)

4. Gloves

5. Two Knee protectors

The SWS is definitely M24 (Army Sniper, yuck!. You could see that in the 160 MB video.

No Ghillie Suit?! Even worse. Makes him no sniper but a designated Marksman. (AAO anyone?)

The SF should wear ProTec helmets, something like Delta or SEALs. Beards for non-player characters would be nice too.

Well, in the end, I won't complain if they wear pink bagpacks and toy guns.

I'm the long range interdiction guy anyways.

EDIT: The new model is M40A3. So at least two sniper systems.

[meyamoti 0]

Remember,the north isn't supposed to raid the south just yet so theres no real use to have a ghillie suit if its not a warzone. Plus all snipers having a ghillie suit would make me think a bit of bf2

[DrBobcat 0]

I agree with meyamoti about the ghille suit issue and I don't see much point in implementing into the game given the campaign's setting. However, I can defintely bet that modders will implement them quite quickly. Also, we have seen a third sniper rifle; the SR-25. I absolutely love this rifle so I am quite happy it has been put in. I just hope the scope is modeled correctly and it hits hard.  

- dRb

Edit: proof about the rifle...

Edit 2: while the picture is <100kb, it is quite large, so I am going to direct link....

SR-25

[ThePredator 0]

Warzone or not, the ghillie is the essential tool for the sniper to be what he is. Everything else is just Designated Marksman.

The whole "training indigenous forces" thing seems to be misunderstood. Either by myself or by others. Just because you train friendlies in the art of war does not mean they are under-equipped or not combat-ready. Train hard, fight easy.

Special Forces, and this is what this thread is all about, are present too, they do have NODs, suppressors and the like, but it is not a combat zone (yet).

I'd like to think of the US presence on Sarani as they are just out-numbered but fully equipped (not fully supported, tough).

This way, everything makes sense. Special Forces should have all their gear, and snipers too.

In OFP, the snipers had some sort of ghillie suit, but no grass to hide in. Now with ArmA, we will have grass but no ghillie. That just makes no sense at all.

I might be wrong, but it looks like the Mk12 Mod 0 SPR not the Stoner SR-25.

[dm 9]

- dRb

Edit: proof about the rifle...

Edit 2: while the picture is <100kb, it is quite large, so I am going to direct link....

SR-25

Thats not an SR-25, its an SPR

More pics:

weapon in the right

The SPR retains the same reciver design as the M16/M4/AR-15, while the SR-25 has a straight-sided top reciever.

Good side on shot

[Callsign 128]

US/UK/France/Germany snipers train all over the world and definetly take their guillie suits, its their way they camouflage and conceal themselves, so would show this to S. Sahrani units as an example of their practice

if you dont believe me read Mark Spicer's book Sniper. Hes a sniper in the British army and shows numerous examples of training over units who also use guillie suits because of the training hes given.

I think people are getting confused on the role of a sniper, as in some people expect that just because he is a sniper, he must have a guillie suit, which is wrong, he'll use wateva is needed for a specific situation, so ull see him sometimes with a helmet on, or a boonie hat or wateva.

but, equally just because you see a man who has a sniper rifle doesnt make him a sniper, this is where u get the definitions of marksman and designated marksman, where the role of a man who can hit targets further away is needed but resources mean that a sniper cannot be assigned to every infantry patrol/platoon since snipers have more important tasks to do.

so to cover all grounds on the SF sniper/marksman unit a solution for the "realism freaks" like me would be to have;

A) A guillie suit sniper for operating in a sniper team

B) A sniper in normal uniform for when hes patrolling with normal units

C) A normal soldier with a marksmans rifle, such as the specialised m4s/m16s to cover the marksman unit ground.

so basically its all about the role being played/situationof the mission and basically calling a spade a spade lol

as for SF, they dont always have beards and uber gucci kit, thats just wat u see in games, most of the time they look like normal people not arnies or sly, and just have a slightly modified gun, take British SAS, sometimes the only difference they have if the gun they are using is an M16 instead of an SA80

bootneckofficer

[dm 9]

...and just have a slightly modified gun, take British SAS, sometimes the only difference they have if the gun they are using is an M16 instead of an SA80...

SAS (and other British "SF") use Diemaco C7/8 weapons, esentially an M4/M16, but not quite.

[Callsign 128]

yer i know but im not that picky, a spade with a different handle eh?

bootneckofficer

[ThePredator 0]

@ bootneckofficer: That's what I am talking about.

In the french editor video, you can see two types of marksmen. Sniper and SF Marksman.

My guess is: SF Marksman will have the Mk12 Mod 0 SPR and no ghillie suit, since he is just a more precise SF operator (just like AAO SF).

The Sniper, however, should most definitely have a ghillie suit and either M24 SWS or M40A3 (both models were on screens/videos).

Anyway, in OFP I loved to be top secret black op James Gastovski, so I hope you can identify yourself with the soldiers in the campaign. There has to be some black op, or spook, to play with in ArmA. Especially in this kind of scenario.

Training, surveillance and deception. There has to be some behind the lines recon...

By the way, we have camel planes and pilots. w00t !

[Messiah 2]

as for SF, they dont always have beards and uber gucci kit, thats just wat u see in games, most of the time they look like normal people not arnies or sly, and just have a slightly modified gun, take British SAS, sometimes the only difference they have if the gun they are using is an M16 instead of an SA80

bootneckofficer

always a fun subject....

Quote[/b] ]that's just what you see in games

no... its not... I've got about 30 photo's here that say otherwise, although I understand what you're getting at.

Quote[/b] ]take the British SAS, sometimes the only difference they have if the gun they are using is an M16 instead of an SA80

and sometimes they're in their own fatigues with only a webbing/chest rig to show their true nature... you're trying to talk about members of the armed forces, who have (or at least in the case of british SF) very lapse SOP's with regards to equipment and uniform. Its a black hole in terms of trying to talk about it on the armchair forums such as these. There are about two or three people who are members on this forum that I'd ever listen to with regards to british special forces, because they're not trolling on google to find their 'information'

but yes they dont always look like 'elite' soldiers, although so many people seem to want them to be... 90% of the time its the small differences you pick up on, a drop holster here, a smock there, perhaps some gucci non issue body armour instead of the CBA/Osprey. Thats certainly what we aimed to achieve with the new UKF Special Forces (One generic SF model with those subtle difference)

I'd rather see that with the arma SF... small subtle differences in their equipment... so you meet up with them in a cutscene and it would take a little time to dawn on you that, wait a minute, he's got a drop holster... hmm thats not standard issue armour... etc etc

you make a good point my friend... something that would be nice to see. And as for the black ops in OFP - from my own internet trolling, arent the CIA operatives who perform sabateur missions behind enemy lines called black ops? Although I think BIS intended these to be part of the army, it may have been a happy accident.

[Callsign 128]

no... its not... I've got about 30 photo's here that say otherwise, although I understand what you're getting at.

yer soz exactly wat i meant but forgot to add

[ThePredator 0]

you make a good point my friend... something that would be nice to see. And as for the black ops in OFP - from my own internet trolling, arent the CIA operatives who perform sabateur missions behind enemy lines called black ops? Although I think BIS intended these to be part of the army, it may have been a happy accident.

Not always. I read the book "SOG" and some other 'Nam era special warfare literature. First the MAC V SOG was indeed CIA-organized. Mainly indigenous forces trained to conduct "behind-the lines-recon" but the whole issue fell into the hands of the North just after their insertion.

The later military SOG was Army Green Berets and some SEALs. All clandestine operations with just a few american operators to keep the losses as low as possible.

Black operations can be performed by anybody actually. Preferably highly trained soldiers with (or without) a chance to survive.

Do they really have to wear all-black-ninja-style gear? I doubt that, this seems to be too much hollywood influence. I thought about some "civilian" looking guy strolling around near enemy held perimeters and taking some recon pictures from Bird Dogs up in the sky.

The special forces in ArmA are fine, if they got some special skills to use. The normal die-hard grunt can shoot straight and die in company, but the special forces should be more of a privilege to play. Employing special gear and outfit is just the visible difference. They should kill silent with knives or close combat techniques and hide the bodies, if this makes any sense in-game at all.

Carrying satchle charges and suppressed weapons is not much of a difference, if there is already contact. Staying undetected and handling the weapons better than the "ungifted" soldiers is another issue with special forces.

I can't think of gameplay features that might support unconventional warfare, this is not only a SF game.

The pilots and tankers might have some specialities, too. Restricting the vehicles the player can use is something I don't like, but restricting the abilities of those vehicles might work and is not even balancing for multiplayer sessions.

A soldier driving a tank is not really useful, same as a special forces dude flying helos.

Imagine pilots running on the ground with their M4 Commando rifles trying to bust tanks and the don't-know-nuthin' grunt flying the warthog for fun sake...

Just my 2 cents.

[DrBobcat 0]

- dRb

Edit: proof about the rifle...

Edit 2: while the picture is <100kb, it is quite large, so I am going to direct link....

SR-25

Thats not an SR-25, its an SPR

More pics:

weapon in the right

The SPR retains the same reciver design as the M16/M4/AR-15, while the SR-25 has a straight-sided top reciever.

Good side on shot

Well look at that.... indeed you are right. I never really saw those other screens. *grumble* Good call. Regardless, it is nice to see a greater selection of rifles than OFP's one per side.

- dRB

[olemissrebel 0]

Are you fucking stupid? SF Killing with knives? Clearly you've seen way too many movies, and played too many video games for your own good. SF abide by the same us army regulations, so they def. wouldn't have a beard in such a place. Also, designated marksman in most infantry units have been sent to either the US Army Sniper school at harmony church, fort benning, or the national guard sniper school in arkansas. There is a difference, usually there is a designated marksman (without sniper school) who is a good shot, and in the normal role of a rifleman in a squad. They just happen to have an acog and m16a4 instead of an m4with m68. A real sniper (still without suit) will be on the so called company level sniper team. The 1SG, and Company Commander place them where needed, and they are the eyes and ears of the company, et cetera. The M24 is being phased out in the US Army in favor of the SR. Remember, snipers aren't mainly used to kill, but OBSERVE.

[simulacra 0]

IMO I rather see designated marksmen than snipers, snipers are a company resource and there are very few of them, designated marksmen on the other hand...

[sim0b 18]

SOBR[1st-I-R] @ Oct. 14 2006,04:31)]

Remember WHY the americans are on sara? Indeed, to train the south sara's, they dont need special forces for that do they?

Thats what the Green Berets do mate.. they are trained to raise guerrilla armies and uprisings on the soil of the enemy and operate, for weeks or month behind enemy lines.

Whereas the Dboys or SEALs have "missions" as we know them.. storm buildings, free hostages etc.

This isnt behind enemy lines, and the US dont want a guerrilla army. They want to show the world that the US isnt all that bad and give a training to the south sarahani's (which is friendly territory), which should also enhance the stability on the island. However, just when the US forces are done and for the most part withdrawn from the island, the NS army attacks.

(So i would expect these guys to train them )

of course they would send special forces to do that job, thats what happens in real life and i would think thats what would happen on s. sarani, regular troops are not trained how to teach multiple skills to untrained soldiers, special forces such as royal marines, paras and such like are trained on just about everything, and therefore are in a better position to teach.

Just send the SAS in and all your problems solved. Iranian embassy seige London 1980, the list goes on.

PS who are the Green berets?

[olemissrebel 0]

Any US Army Special forces soldier that has an MOS of 18 series are green berets. This includes 'delta force' et cetera.

[ThePredator 0]

@ olemissrebel: I guess no one here is stupid. Please refrain from using such accusations (even if they are not directed at me).

2nd thing: Of course they wear beards and stuff. Even those "De Oppresso Liber" guys. Why? Not because they are top-notch but because of deception. In civilian clothings and incognito, no one will know they are soldiers. I talked to a friend of mine - former german special forces - he had a beard and it was better camouflage in the woods than skin shaved as smooth as baby's butt. Even with camo'd face. In cold weather climates, it will keep you warm, too.

Knives...I know several stories of SF using knives as CQB weaponry. In the jungles of Cambodia and Laos, for example.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[el_muerko 0]

US Spec Ops in Afganistan: http://www.cursor.org/images/herold_us_special_forces1.jpg

[Placebo 28]

Are you fucking stupid?

Please refrain from posting in such an aggressive/flamebating maner.

[ThePredator 0]

Here is one picture from 5th SF Group in A-Stan.

http://www.gb4hr.net/Media/5thSOF.jpg

Oh, the ÃœberVerwalter has spoken. Hi Placebo *hide*

[-CS-SOBR-1st-I-R- 0]

praise the lord ..

lol back on topic ...

I recently saw an addon somwhere, using bayonnets.. I mean working ones!

I think it was the new chinese mod if I recall right. Is such thing going to be possible aswell ? It would be a nice accessoirs for ArmA to have SFs with combat knives or does BIS fear it would become BF2 style ?